Found a text on his phone....

[Redwhine]

DH was on a work night out last night. He got in at two, which was odd. He was very apologetic about waking me. I knew something was up: I don't know how but I did. At five I checked his phone. There were two texts from a girl I hadn't heard of saying " that must not happen again, just back to normal nothing else I'm sorry" then another message saying " reply to this I need closure". I woke him and asked who she was. He looked sick and couldn't speak... He then said she's a girl at work, they'd been flirting for a few weeks. Last night they went off on their own and 'almost' kissed but didn't. At that point our children woke and we had to stop talking.

I feel sick and I can't stop shaking. We have been together for twelve years, married for seven. Our kids are four and six.

Should I believe him? He keeps saying ' I haven't done anything' but what he's admitted to makes me feel sick. Am I overreacting?

Redwhine - he is testing you! Imo you need to show him very clearly how seriously you are taking his betrayal - he is being a total prick if he thinks he can continue to mistreat you this way. His behaviour has turned your world upside down & is threatening the safety of your little family. You need to set the rules (as you see fit) so he is left in no doubt of possible outcomes. Don't let him dismiss your pain, he caused it! Be strong and don't be pushed into sweeping this under the carpet. You can both come through this together, but he must take responsibility for his betrayal and do whatever you need to help you feel safe again. Don't accept anything less. I feel for you x

Morning OP - I hope you are coping ok at work

I'm baffled as to why your DH is acting like this? Does he really think a night in the spare room is all it takes?

Remember that you found out by accident, he didn't confess to you what had happened like a truely remorseful husband would have.

He previously kissed this woman and then the other night, together, they engineered a situation which meant they could be alone together. They both wanted and knew something was going to happen between them. If your DH was really ashamed about the first kiss he'd had with this woman then he would never have agreed to meet up with her that night when she asked him to, but he did.

Whatever happened the other night, be it another kiss or sex, was not a spur of the moment stupid mistake.

If you hadn't have seen his text messages would he have told you what had happened? Or would you still be in the dark whilst he and the other woman sneaked about behind your back? I may be wrong but I'm guessing the latter.

You deserve so much more.

Maybe I would have more sympathy if he'd broken down in tears when he had got home (without you having seen hid texts), told you that he'd done something really stupid, said he couldn't lie to you and that he was so ashamed of himself and so sorry, but he didn't.

He's just a cheat who got caught out and now expects you to just move on because it was 'nothing' and he's done his time in the spare room.

Why don't you try writing out an email to your DH (but don't send it) and write down exactly how you feel and how hurt and confused you are by what he has done. Print it out and when you get home sit him down and read it to him without letting him interrupt. Sometimes it's easier to read out how you feel then wait for the right words to come amongst tears and arguments.

If he understands just how much he has hurt you and what damage he has done to your trust and your marriage maybe then he will realise how it wasn't just 'nothing'.

Redwhine, your family means the most to you, it's quite evident. You are sick to your stomach with this betrayal. Rightly, you are not putting up with it!

You've had an early miscarriage recently, and this must be still on your mind.

Despite that, your husband has behaved awfully. He's being bolshie today because he knows that, but wants to quickly move on.

It's not just 'nothing'. It bloody hurts! You are a strong woman in charge of yourself and your children, and it was good to read the parents evening went well. Your family will not be destroyed if you ask him to go.

I would question whether he has another phone. (My ex did).

Red, hope you got through your work day OK.

Sounds like your dh is hoping that if he makes a bit of a fuss you'll capitulate so as not to upset him. He almost certainly knows that he's betrayed you and hurt you, but maybe he doesn't quite believe that it's that bad - this will be him minimising in order to make himself feel better about what he's done. He needs to be disabused of that idea strainght away.

This is going to be harder for you to get past if he continues to think like that, and would probably mean the end of the marriage. He needs to be made to understand how bad his behaviour was, and realise quite what a difficult thing it is that he wants from you, which is forgiveness and for it to be put firmly in the past.

If you decide that you think the marriage is worth it - that he is worth it - he is going to have to take responsibility, show remorse, understanding of the betrayal, just for a start.

I hope he does understand that and at least tries to do it, regardless of whether you decide to stick with it or to drop him.

Axekick is right, Red.

A Miscarriage at any point is traumatic

Your husband thinking you should be over it shows that he doesn't feel all that bad or he wouldn't be annoyed at you.

I am going to say something horrible here and I hope I am off the mark, but, I expect that the real reason he is feeling resentful this morning, isn't because he wants to save his marriage and is disappointed you aren't ready to move forward (although he may well want to), I expect that his immediate resentment has more to do with you spoiling his fun.

He will have been having real adrenalin rushes and buzzing off the excitement of being emotionally and/or physically intimate with someone new - that's half the pleasure in a physical or emotional affair within a marriage - it's very addictive and you have put a stop to it. I've seen it happen, and it's like watching someone take drugs away from an addict. Grumpy and resentful because you have taken away his source of excitement.

I would be clear that you don't consider the matter remotely closed and won't until you are happy you have full disclosure, and then - and only then - will consider your options with him. Don't let him minimise. Right now, the thing to remember is that he has a different agenda to you.

I'm sorry OP. it's shit.

Hi OP, hope your day was as ok as it can be given the circumstances.

I have one bit of advice re his seeming annoyed that you aren't back to normal.
He's trying to minimise/ control the situation and move you back into safer ground ASAP. He considers the matter closed and no longer wants to talk about it. Being stroppy when it's clear you aren't is a form of emotional blackmail. He wants you to question your reaction to the situation and back down. Quieten down. Let life return to normal.

If he's good, you'll do that.

Don't let him make you feel in anyway odd or unusual for feeling the way you feel. Irrespective of what we don't know about the situation that happened with this woman. We do know he kissed her. Twice. You have every right to feel the way you feel as a response to knowing that. And he needs to deal with it. Not minimise it.

Right now this guy needs to be in full on grovel mode and treating you impeccably and reassuring you. because there's one fact. Unless you have an agreement. Married people don't go find kissing other people. End of.

Jaded's post reinforces the point made by a previous wise poster - that the only person who can fix this is him.

As much as you might want to fix it, you can't. He's the only one who can. And if he's annoyed that you're not over it yet, and (even deeply subconsciously) in any way annoyed at the thrill of his situation being suddenly halted, it won't be an easy road.

He needs to understand this, and to let you know whether he's up to it, it not. Not 'up for it' for 24 or 48 hours, or whenever he thinks you should be over it by, but up for it in terms of your long-term relationship.

I have recently been witnessing this scenario from the other side - one of my oldest friends got briefly involved with a colleague, and it has been quite the eye-opener to see it from this side.

She fully admits to minimising what she could get away with (they only kissed, though multiple time, and I believe her), but she whole-heartedly wishes she'd been honest and upfront from the start because now her DH struggles to believe anything she says. She also recognises that this is on her to fix, and even though she 'only' kissed the OM, the devastation in terms of what her husband is going through is just as real.

SlightlyJaded is spot on. The reality of probably losing his new found excitement will make him resentful and grumpy.

That's not to say the marriage can't be saved. It absolutely can be. But he will need weaning off the OW first and the only thing that can do that is time itself.

The excitement and 'buzz' that comes from a new relationship is all consuming. It's what makes otherwise normal, decent, rational folk do stupid things that they and those who know them never thought possible like leaving their spouse and children. When they 'come down' from the 'high' and the hormones are no longer in charge, these people look at their actions and think, 'what the hell have I done?'

He needs to go cold turkey which will be hard when he works so closely with her.

I have been thinking about this all day and honestly his reaction this morning would hurt me more than the cheating.

Because he is putting his feelings first. Fuck your feelings. He wants you to pretend so he can carry on as normal. Doesn't matter about the effect on you. As long as he cant see or have to deal with the fall out, what's going on with you doesn't matter.

jaded might be right. I would add though he has probably realised that not only has his ego boost being shut down, his marriage is on the brink of failing. A few days ago he had two women and not he has none. And he is blaming you for that, rather then himself.

He really doesn't sound sorry. I want him to be, for your sake, but I just don't know.

IME, men who behave like this don't change. The Op, can of course, take as long as she wants to make a decision. It may take years. For me it took 4 years. I've no idea how people up and leave on Day 1.

Sadly, the Op's H arranged this night out when he was sober, knowing what happened last time, knowing what would likely happen this time. He kissed the Op goodbye (I presume), looked her in the eye, and left, all the time knowing how he would be kissing the OW later. This is fucking shit behaviour and not how you treat a loved one, who has just suffered a devastating loss. He should have been home, looking after her.

Vagabond I could have written your post about 12 years ago. I caught my ExH in the exact same scenario you describe (freaked me out to read your post). His actions afterwards (heeby jeebies etc) all exactly the same. I wrote it off as drunken silliness. Found out a few years later, that he had done the same thing with lots of women (at least 10) - drunken kisses, fondling - he just hid it better after his near miss of being caught. Please keep your eyes peeled. No man worth his salt, is in a bedroom with a naked woman, 30 seconds away from kissing, whilst his wife lies asleep next door. I'm sorry.

Can I just ask Redwhine has he done anything remotely suspicious before like unexplained late nights or odd overnight stays or most anything that might indicate affair behaviours?.

It may well be it wasn't anything that serious and he thinks its all over with and why the big fuss and of course that's going to wind up the tension even more as he may not understand to well the hurt he's caused.

As advised write it down, all of it inc the miscarriage, and i wonder if he might have been affected by that and couldn't or didn't know how to express his feelings about it. I had a similar event after an abortion and that done for very good medical reasons upset me for a lot longer then I'd have thought it would and of course I couldn't make my wife feel in anyway guilty or awkward at all by expressing regret if that be the best word, as she had suffered quite a lot too.

Not suggesting that is a reason you should easily forgive but something doesn't seem quite as simple here as it might be thought.

Hello,

Yesterday I spoke to my brother, which turned out to be the most helpful thing I could have done. We get on but are not incredibly close, so I don't know why I turned to him. Anyway he'd guessed from my message what I was going to tell him and he listened then told me his partner also had an emotional affair a few years ago with someone she worked with. Very similar situation. He totally understood how I felt and how damaging it was. He told me we could get over it and I could trust again but it would be a long hard process and DH would have to regain my trust by doing anything I needed.

He wasn't really angry with DH or casting blame. He was very kind to me and made me feel totally validated, but he also said DH was in denial and minimising probably because he felt so guilty he couldn't face up to it. He said his partner did the same, it was a while before she realised the damage she caused. Initially she wouldn't.

He offered to talk to my DH and said his partner was happy to as well, not to have s go but to impress upon him the magnitude of his actions. He also said if my DH couldn't do what I was asking ( for example telling the girl I know, which he still hadn't) I would never trust him again and that would end the relationship.

Suddenly I knew what I had to do and this horrible peerless feeling went away. I even went for a drink with my friends after work and didn't rush home. I wanted him to be the one waiting at home. When I got in I just told him exactly how I felt, what I wanted and my expectations of him. He hated it and squirmed. He hated my brother knowing and he hated feeling powerless and me saying how it was going to be. Tough.

He texted her saying "my wife read your messages and knows what happened between us. She is devastated. I will only talk to you in a professional context again."

He then got angry again when I said he needed to talk to my sister in law. He refused and started shouting. I packed him a bag and told him to go. I said I would then move to my parents with the children and we would tell our parents, friends and the kids we were separating as he wouldn't take responsibility for his actions so I could never again trust him. He knew I meant it.

He then broke down and admitted he was deeply ashamed and couldn't bear to think about the pain he had caused and wanted to block it out and pretend it never happened because he couldn't face it.

Well done
That must have been hard to do. Telling your brother sounds like a good move. I am glad you are getting some RL support.

Phew, mammoth post!

I told him I still loved him and wanted to keep our family together but not at any cost: he had to try to repair things and had to accept me being sad and angry still. Had to talk to Sister in law to help him face up to things. Had to accept me checking up on him, reading his messages etc until the trust came back.

He said he would because he couldn't face losing me and he knew he was totally in the wrong.

This was hours of talking and crying. Eventually I went to bed. He is still in the spare room and he didn't question that.

I know a lot of you gave me similar advise to my brother... You were right I should have listened but coming from him it just resonated. I know many of you don't believe it was just kissing, but I do. Apart from the nights in question, DH never really goes out without me, except the odd quick drink with mutual friends. No nights away or late nights except that one. We spend all our weekends and holidays together. He's nog changed appearance, been funny with his phone or Facebook profile (both of which I know his passwords for). I really believe this was a completely idiotic mistake: yes going back after the first time compounds this and makes it worse. But again I think he was lying to himself, pretending it wasn't a big deal and wouldn't happen again.

I've looked at her Facebook page and she only moved in with her boyfriend a few weeks ago. Poor bloke. Imagine doing that right at the beginning of your relationship! Anyway, the fact she lives with someone also makes it less likely he was at her house ( not impossible I know).

So that's where we are now. I feel more in control, I feel like things have stopped happening to me and I have started making things happen. It's a good feeling. I also played beyonces irreplaceable on a loop yesterday, which I would recommend to anyone in a similar situation!

V sorry about your miscarriage and what's happened.

Not acceptable for him to be moody because you don't wish to ignore this. You don't have "full disclosure", he could well have had sex with her. Or an emotional affair.

I would ask to see his phone(s) and personal and work emails and social media immediately. And would end the relationship if he refused or made out that this request was unreasonable.

Apart from anything else he's laid himself open to a sexual harassment claim and could potentially lose his job.

Cross posts - glad you've started to take control, have told him what's what and have family support.

Have you seen his work emails yet?

Yes. I have read all messages between them and all are work related apart from the one asking him out on that night. One said "thanks for helping with the detention, what would I do without you" but that was literally the only thing. It did underline to me how closely they work together though which I hate.

Are you going to be on with him working closely with her?

I am glad you have done what you have done and taken some control. I hope you feel a little better.

I hope you work it out, op. Sounds like he's full of regret and realised what he nearly lost.

And be glad you found out this quickly.
In my situation, it escalated, OW was on a mission to get her man and he was too weak to ignore it.

Had I found texts a few weeks in, not discovered months later once it had become physical, then I can totally see myself being where you are now.

So I'd like you to take some comfort from that if you can even if it feels odd.

What's that book everyone here recommends? About doors and windows??
Not just friends? Well the first chapters are an excellent example of what you just went through. I recommend you read it together.

telling other people is always a BIG deal for the man imo

So 'detention' is their little pet word they use when they are working late perhaps? Does that message indicate how they've passed the time?

Remember Op you found this out by accident.

Don't live your life down the 'checking everything' route. It can just encourage the deceiver to hide their crap further under stones.