Please tell me I'm wrong to assume all men coerce and pressure women into sex, or worse

[snowflake02]

Just that really. What happens in a healthy relationship if you aren't in the mood? Is that really the end of it?

Why have you stayed friends with him? You aren't friends are you?
So what if he does love you? Doesn't mean you owe him a relationship.
Coercion becomes rape when you feel unable to say no. Whether it's a knife at the throat, a nasty mean attitude or a threat to do something worse, if you do it because not to do it would mean a worse consequence than some unwanted sex then it's rape. If you aren't freely consenting, but only consenting to avoid the consequences then it's rape.

You were so sure you were going to work on your boundaries - but you have spent the whole time since you ended it letting him trample all over them still.

Earlier you asked if it was something about you that meant you kept getting into abusive relationships. It's all to do with missing or not recognising big warning signs. (I say this as someone who did this myself. )

To the outside his behaviour is very scary and worrying. On the inside you are focusing on the flowers and the chocolates and the declarations of "love". But he is trampling all over the boundaries you are trying to set. He's telling you how you should feel. Really, really controlling.

Read all your posts again, especially the ones where you are so pleased you ended it. From all your posts he is not a good man.

He isn't bombarding you with flowers and chocolates out of love, even if does love you.

He is doing it grind you down and make you question your judgment.

How can I refuse him? He's not an animal, he said so. He must love me, he said he does.

This not love. It is a guilt trip.

He isn't your friend. Friends do not sulk if you don't want to do something and then harrass you while telling you they are the best friend you'll ever have and that all friends behave the way.

If you haven't already, read the Lundy book - Why Does He Do That. And revisit what you learned from the freedom programme.

You deserve to be treated with respect and this man doesn't do that.

Be kind to yourself and set the bar higher.

Snowflake
I posted on some of your other threads I think. Flowers and chocolate mean nothing. He sounds like he is harassing you now actually. I agree with all the posters who say he's not respecting you or your wishes and that you need to cut contact.
My stbx did flowers and expensive gifts to make up for all his abuse, he also said he 'loved' me. It meant fuck all.
This man wasn't good to you. What matters is how he behaved towards you. Particularly if he knows what you have already gone through. It sounds like harassment to me, definitely not love.

Take care of yourself.

Really good points, thank you everyone. Believe it or not, I do think I am making progress because a couple of weeks ago I was considering going back. But I have started counselling again and re-visited the Freedom Programme. I now have enough doubt about going back to him to post here to see if my radar is working correctly. I was worried that I was being over sensitive because of what happened with my ex and misreading the situation.

I thought perhaps he deserved another chance because we get on very well, aside from all the pressure and everything that happened towards the end of our relationship. I thought I was being unreasonable and unfair not to give him another chance when he has promised it would never happen again because it wasn't the real him.

Coercion becomes rape when you feel unable to say no. Whether it's a knife at the throat, a nasty mean attitude or a threat to do something worse, if you do it because not to do it would mean a worse consequence than some unwanted sex then it's rape. If you aren't freely consenting, but only consenting to avoid the consequences then it's rape.
This worries me at it likely means that is what he did, or came very close to it at least. And I don't want to think about that. Not again.

Of course that's who he is! Actions speak louder than words. And to quote another phrase, when someone shows you who they are, believe them

Snow, I think that far far more rape happens than people understand. I think that most people would be horrified to think that but when you really think about it - if you have to be pressured into saying yes - whatever form that pressure takes - and if you had your free choice you would say no - that's not consensual in the true meaning of consent (freely and enthusiastically given).

You're not obliged to accept this definition and apply it to your own experiences. But it should be enough to stop you going back there. I'm really puzzled as to why you think it wasn't the real him that did that all those times? If it wasn't him, then who was he?

I can only echo what everyone else has said.

Please don't judge this man on his words. Words, promises and flowers are cheap.

Judge him on his actions. He has abused you, coerced you into sex and ignored your right to say no and be listened to. He's not a good man.

Thank you everyone.

vince that definition makes perfect sense when I stop to think about it and I think you are right, it happens a lot more than people realise. Or perhaps like to admit.

I have told him i won't be going back, he didn't take it too well. Lots of 'it's not fair on me', you are destroying me, you are my life, I adore you, I know I'm perfect for you, you're not 100% sure you are doing the right thing, why are you doing this to me and begging me to re-consider...

You need to tell him to sod off and leave you alone cos there´s not a cat in Hell´s chance you´d ever go back with him and you´ve had enough of him bloody pestering you so you´re gonna cut contact. Then cut contact! You must follow through, don´t give him a choice to back off or not, just block his number/email etc.

He´s persevering (harassing is more apt! ) with his bullshit tactics cos he can possibly sense that you´re faultering or that you´re resolve is waning. Maybe you´re subconsciously giving him mixed messages cos you´re verbally telling him ¨no¨ but your actions are saying ¨maybe¨? Even by accepting his gifts, this will be pervieved by him as a mixed message. Whereas if you´d told him to shove ´em......! There´s a clear message, see the difference? So he´s upping the ante now and increasing the pressure.

You escaped and he can´t bear it. He wants to lure you back in with false promises and bullshit manipulation. He´ll try every trick he can to wear you down. That´s why you really can´t keep a man like this in your life once the relationship is over. You should´ve cut contact with him as soon as you finished it, cos now he just sees it as a challenge to get you back in line and he´s relentless.

If you don´t sever contact he will continue. Can you not see his arrogance? Can you not see you are nothing but a trophy and love has literally fuck all to do with it? Obsession more like!!

Once you´ve blocked his number and he will probably come round your house or accost you in public, you need to tell him in no uncertain terms that you will get a restraining order if he persists. And again, you must follow through on this. I suspect you haven´t given him a message which is blunt and direct enough, so he still feels he´s in with a chance. Don´t worry about being polite either, you need to be rude cos I reckon he just won´t give in otherwise!

The law is there to protect you so utilize it. Give him one chance to leave you in peace, if her ignores you tell the police he´s harassing you despite you blocking his no. etc. He should not be approaching you once you have sent him this very clear signal. He sounds very sinister to me and this could easily escalate into stalking, attacking you etc.

Protect yourself and free yourself from him. Creepy, abusive sex pest! Yuck.

Go no contact. Now.

Unless you are enjoying all this pathetic begging and mithering there is no reason to give it the time of day.

Don't listen to the begging. It's all about him and what he wants isn't it? If he loved you it would be about what you want.

Stick to your guns this time and stop the "friends" Rubbish too. He isn't your friend.

I thought he would leave me alone now but he has text me this morning, but it does sound like he might now back off, so fingers crossed. Will wait to see what happens next time he goes out drinking...

Can't you just block his number? You don't have DC together, do you?

Stop being so passive.

Why "wait" to see what happens ? It is difficult to believe that somebody could be so removed from the concept of having control of their own life that they would dumbly stand by and wait for more abuse when he goes out drinking

Block all contact with him. The it will stop. And if it doesn't inform the police.

AF is right. Where is your self determination? Are you enjoying his attentions a bit?

Blocking a number is piss easy. I really don´t understand your hesitancy. He is hardly likely to go from aggressively harassing you to platonic friends is he? If he doesn´t have another victim in his sights already then he´s just gonna gear himself up for more sex pest tactics, drink on board or not!

Are you testing him? Cos you do realise men like him will never be able to have a platonic relationship with their exs don´t you? You will never be able to be ¨Just good friends¨ with him.

I´d be washing my hands of the weirdo and draw a line under the dysfunctional relationship. Maybe your standards are a lot lower or your judgement skewed if you´ve had a bad relationship prior to having this bad relationship. I hope you enjoy a good, long stint at being single, cos along with retraining your brain regarding men and relationships, I think being single and putting your energies and time into other things will do you the world of good.

You definately don´t want another dickhead man who treats you like dirt. Concentrate and prioritize yourself now.

No I'm not enjoying the pressure and the guilt. I enjoyed his company and friendship but not everything else that came with it. I see now that we can't just be friends.

I dont want to block his number straight away as I don't want to be unkind and also that is likely to antagonise him. But if he won't leave me alone then I will have to.

What do you fear if you antagonise him?

There is nothing unkind about cutting off contact with a pest who will not take no for an answer.

You considered going back to him because it is so very much what he wants.

You want him to leave you be. Because you know you were abused.

Yet, it crossed your mind to forget all that in order to satisfy his wants.

You have come a long way and are doing well. But not quite there yet if you feel you ought to jeopardise your mental and physical well being for the man who hurt you before, and why? Because he really really wants you too.

He pressurises you because the longer you are free of him, the more likely you are to find strength and realisation that better men are there for you. He has to reel you back in quick.

Does that sound like a changed man to you? Does it even sound like respect? How many times did you ask him to leave you be and give you space?

No still clearly doesn't mean No to him.

Block him.

Kindness to yourself is a big step towards removing that "vulnerable" stamp on your forehead.

thing is, you do need to block him, snowflake.

so far your actions aren't saying 'leave me alone'. you're still receiving his texts, occasionally responding it seems. while you continue to communicate (doesn't matter what you say) it's a green light for him to continue too.

he doesn't take what you say seriously. you have to DO something to show him you mean business.

block him. never see him again.

OP won't block him. She is still invested in hi. And on it goes.

Fair point. I need to stand my ground and make sure I don't give any room for misinterpretation. Something I don't think I have done very well at due to my own confusion and lack of space to think.

the reason you had "lack of space to think" is because you have not blocked him

you are sabotaging yourself and until you get it into your head that coming for a bit of handholding on MN is no substitute for unequivocal action by you we are all wasting our time here, including your own