Please tell me I'm wrong to assume all men coerce and pressure women into sex, or worse

[snowflake02]

Just that really. What happens in a healthy relationship if you aren't in the mood? Is that really the end of it?

Walk away!

Dear God, run like the wind. This man is an awful excuse for a human being. You deserve so much better.

This link has a video about tea and consent. It works in a strange way.

www.adweek.com/adfreak/still-dont-understand-sexual-consent-its-cup-tea-says-brilliant-psa-167823

Thank you everyone. He is very convincing when he tells me that it will never happen again as it didn't happen in the first 6 months of our relationship, which to be fair, I don't think it did.

He has managed to go 24 hours without contacting me yesterday. But every time I see him it turns into a big conversation and declarations of love, even though i have pretty much begged for him to just give me some breathing space and not mention it. He says he is desperate for us to be together and he knows we're perfect for each other and knows that I love him too. Which i'm not entirely sure I do...

He'a telling you how you should feel again. You've asked for space, he hasn't given you that.

He doesn't respect you.

YOU DESERVE RESPECT.

Run, run away fast.

no he hasn't changed at all! he's still trying to coerce you. you've said no how many times?

he's helped you the last 8 weeks. i bet he has, because he thinks he stands a chance.

best bet for you now is to go nc, and ask yourself why you've kept him in your life? seriously, he is NO GOOD.

you've done so brilliantly. go find a good man, not a man who's pretending.

So he knew what he was doing, still did it anyway. Blames you for his behaviour, won't give you the space you need and tells you what to do and how to feel.
These are NOT the actions of a nice man. Or of a man that loves you. He wants to own you like a possession and control you.
Please do the freedom programme.
This is NOT. A good man. You know this and that's why you are asking.
Well done in recognising his behaviour and getting out in the first place.
Keep your strength up and stay away.
Go no contact.

This man is a cleverer abuser than your husband.

Therefore, he's more dangerous.

He's not in love with you. He wants to own and control you. (Hence all the whiny shit when you turned down sex.)

Walk away. Cut him off and stop talking to him. You can't get over an abuser by sticking around and letting him mess with your head.

Hi Snowflake, I am wondering if you are dating my ex!

These men will use any "friendly" post-break-up contact with you to abuse you further by getting you to doubt yourself and question yourself. All the declarations of love and the promises to change - I had this too, and he did manage to reel me back in - an it was All. Total. Bullshit.

Once I went back, not only did he revert to the same old abusive behaviour, it actually escalated. (He was always pestering for sex too, and sulked and made sarcastic comments when he didn't get his way.)

During the time when it was "off" between us, I had declarations of "love", promises that he would change, tears, desperation, I was bombarded night and day with calls, texts and emails, he got all his friends and family to feel sorry for him so that I ended up feeling like the guilty party - I mistook this for love

I thought, why would someone make all this effort if they didn't love me? But I found out the hard way that it had all been a ploy to get me back under his control. It had NOTHING to do with love. It was about control. Never underestimate the lengths they will go to, OP, or the tactics they will use.

I'm free of him now, with the help of Lundy Bancroft and the Freedom Programme.

You need to cut off all contact OP. Block him on your phone and on email/social media. Cut off his supply of oxygen so that he doesn't have any opportunity to manipulate you or mess with your head.

And well done for getting out!

I really do think he loves me though. Which is why I have been wondering if I should be giving him another chance. But I can also see how manipulative he was and probably still is, with all the pressure and flowers and helping me with whatever he can.

But I always wonder if I'm making something of nothing and he just loves me and wants to do nice things for me. And all the nastiness when we were together was genuinely just because he wanted desperately to stay together. Which makes sense with some of the awful things he said to try and make me stay, but not so much with all the sexual coercion and pressure...

He wanted you to stay together so he treated you unkindly?

I can't see the link. He's being reasonable to put you back where he wants you - compliant. He's being reasonable because he can, when he needs to. Reasonable is not the real him. As soon as you take him back he will take a sigh of relief and stop the exhausting act of being a good (normal) partner

Send him packing. Today!

So he was nasty to you because he wanted to stay with you? How does that make sense OP?

Run away Snowflake. If he was worried he would lose you he could have tried listening to you and respecting your wishes.
Funny thing, my ex loved me sooo much and was so worried I would leave him he tried to kill me. It was my fault, see, cause my behaviour made it so that he had to strangle me several times. And then Once more in case I no longer loved him.
Nuts, I know.
This guy is saying the same. Maybe he loves you, but it is not the kind of love that leaves you happy, safe and content. I stumbled over this other kind of love and it is completely different. It doesnt kill you or make you feel imprisoned, it is very nice.
Please Run away from this scary person.

so what if he loves you? he's not good for you. just because someone loves you doesn't mean you have to even give them the time of day if you don't want to!

it's simply not a good enough reason. he will try and control you more and more.

Please don't take him back.

DioneTheDiabolist i see what I wrote makes little sense. I was thinking of the very manipulative things he would say designed to make me feel I had to stay with him or be alone, or that I would never find anyone as wonderful as him. I can see why he might say that out of desperation. Not that I think it was ok for him to say that.

Why do you even care about person who rapes or abuses or ignores your wishes?

I don't get it op. Surely you have more self respect and self esteem to choose a partner who would never do those things?

There are billions of men in the world, please don't settle for one who has and will ruin your life.

You only have one life after all.

This is one of the manipulative things he says. It makes no sense. He says it, purely to make you do what he wants, not because he loves you.

He's not wonderful, he's an entitled, abusive man who wants to abuse you. The vast majority of men are better than him. Cut yourself loose and find a good man instead of wasting any more time on him.

It doesn't matter whether he really loves you or not (for a given value of love - he doesn't show it the way most of us would expect). What matters is whether you want to be with him. Not what he wants. What you want. You're the one taking the risk here, if you let him back, that he might do it again. You do not have to take that risk. The choice is yours, not his.

The thing I don't understand is why his refusal to back off at your request, and his insistence that because he loves you you have to love him too, doesn't make you angry. You have every right to be furious, actually. How dare he stay in your face when you've ended it. How dare he tell you that you're "perfect for each other" when you have decided you are not. How does he have the bare-faced cheek to tell you he "knows" you love him, when actually, you don't know anything of the sort? He's pressurising you just as much as he ever did in the bedroom. Proof positive that he hasn't changed one iota.

He says he is desperate for us to be together and he knows we're perfect for each other and knows that I love him too.

This chills me to the bone. Creepy-as-fuck words, that. I'm sorry, snowflake, but if (knowing the context of what he's like) this actually sounds romantic to you and not scary, creepy, off-putting, you need another few reads of Lundy and some more Freedom Programme.

You cannot listen to these words coming out of this lying rapist and think they're anywhere on the side of benevolent.

At any rate, listen to his actions. You have asked repeatedly ("begged" - in your very own words) for him to give you space, and he has not honoured your wishes. Even conversationally he doesn't believe you deserve consent!

Every time you reply to him, you're doing two negative things: 1. confirming to him that what he's doing is OK, and may someday work, and 2. keeping your head befuzzled. And you seriously need clarity. You deserve sanity and a clear head, and you're never going to get it by being in touch with him.

Please - please - cut contact. Do it today.

Hi OP - can't remember if I posted last time but I had a bookmark on the thread so I was defo following!

Sorry to hear you are confused again.

I suppose the thing is - he might really, truly love you. And what if he does?Just because somebody loves you it doesn't mean that you owe them anything. It really is (and I apologise for sounding blunt) their problem.

A relationship is more than love. And I don't think that his love is the same as the love that you crave, anyway. It seems more like an obsession or fantasy, the love of the idea of you, not the kind of deep caring and respect which you deserve (which everyone deserves).

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer it is creepy now it has been pointed out to me.

BertieBotts I think you are right. He himself has said he is infatuated with me.

Anniegetyourgun yes he is pressuring me still, but dressing it up as love

When does coercion become rape though? He always made a big thing of not being like my ex husband, describing him as an animal and saying he would never do a thing like that.

It becomes rape When you have said no and he still continues having sex in you.
Coercion and pressuring you, it is all about him all the time. What he feels, what he thinks you should feel. How you should believe him When he says he will never be like your ex. Even though what he does is something Else than what he says. He could calmly just behave in a nice and caring way. Instead he turns his behaviour back on you, guilttripping that you made him insecure so that he had to be an arse. Double the shit and a total headfuck for you. Not nice.
You choose what kind of love is good for you. It Took me years and years to realise that. I thought I had to twist myself into knots in gratitude for a love that made me feel like I was mad.
You dont have to do that.

Coercion isn't any more acceptable than rape. He doesn't love you he misses having you around because he gets a kick out of abusing you. Why the fuck would you want this revolting person back? Just laugh at him and move on!

dear Snowflake

I'm concerned that you keep asking 'when does coercion become rape' as if that mattered.

Anything that feels in any way like coercion is just wrong. Whether you are picking what ice creme flavour from a wide selection in front of yourself, deciding whether to have a cup of tea (in the brilliant example above) .....or anything else. Anyone pressuring you to do anything is just wrong: that pressure is a sign that they do not have your best interest at heart, they are literally trying to bend you to their will.

The freedom programme gets good recommendations, incase this doesn't come naturally to you. HTH