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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Please tell me I'm wrong to assume all men coerce and pressure women into sex, or worse

226 replies

snowflake02 · 19/10/2015 21:06

Just that really. What happens in a healthy relationship if you aren't in the mood? Is that really the end of it?

OP posts:
K1mberly · 19/10/2015 23:32

What Lila said

AnyFucker · 19/10/2015 23:32

(There is more to it than just the coercion element).

No surprises there, snow. This kind of behaviour doesn't exist in isolation. But you have recognised it and are going to put an end to tolerating it. Next time your Twat Radar will be further tuned. It's a process, love.

LucyBabs · 19/10/2015 23:38

snowflake You sound like a strong woman. You have recognised this ahem man is no good.

I was sexually abused as a child, then as a teenager I went from one disastrous relationship to another. The theme for all of these relationships the men were pigs who thought I was there for their pleasure. They didn't care I had been abused and that I had intimacy and trust issues.

I met my dp 10 years ago and although our relationship is far from perfect, he has been the most understanding and loving man I know.

There have been times we wouldn't have sex for months mainly because I am having a shut down where I can barely be affectionate with my dc Sad he still supports and loves me.

Yes he gets frustrated annoyed and disappointed but this is never directed at me. We can talk as adults and work through it.

Please leave and look after yourself. There are many lovely normal men out there Wink Flowers

Original poster
snowflake02 · 19/10/2015 23:44

LucyBabs I'm sorry for what you went through but pleased you found a good man in the end. I will try not to give up hope!

OP posts:
LucyBabs · 19/10/2015 23:57

Please don't give up hope snowflake work on yourself first.. You are worth so much more Star

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 20/10/2015 00:17

My catalyst was being on holiday with him knowing I couldn't face having sex with him again so I actually told him I was unlikely to want it again that week. "Oh" he said. "As long as I get it once or twice more this week I will be happy".

Ugh. Like 'as long as I get down to see the pottery museum and spend half a day on the beach, I'll be happy this holiday'. Like off a fucking menu or out of a brochure. Or like ordering a room service wake up call. Confused

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 20/10/2015 09:16

Just to join the chorus, yes there are men who are not pushy, who respect a plain 'no' ... and respect the woman.

He sounds a wolf in sheep's clothing. Subtle until the penny drops - which you saw for yourself.

But there are rather lovely sheep out there that you can cuddle up to and who will treat you with the respect you deserve.

It's amazing how much more you get in the mood when you don't feel subtly coerced. Once you've built up faith, that is.

Original poster
snowflake02 · 20/10/2015 10:01

Thank you, I will try not to loose hope! I like the sound of finding one of those lovely sheep.

Is it normal for someone to initiate sex by simply saying 'I want to f*k you'? or 'do you want to f*k me'?

And is there a point at which coercion becomes rape? Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to fine tune that twat radar!

OP posts:
Kacie123 · 20/10/2015 12:14

Oh dear. A lot depends on tone of voice, physical behaviour, and nuance sadly, and what's okay in one context is not at all okay in another.

I've used those phrases or similar when we're "in the mood" and it's fine. I suppose if I walked in a room with no other pleasantries and said it aggressively he'd probably be a bit taken aback, but it would depend so much on moods and nuances.

Every loving relationship probably allows for people to try to "persuade" their partner into sex, if that makes sense ... But it's more of a "is there anything I can do to get you in the mood" sort of thing for mutual pleasure, and a "I understand and I will leave you alone since you're not in the mood" level of communication too. Meanwhile if you've made it clear that behaviour's not ok, there should be a learning curve and change of behaviour too.

I'm probably not saying this very well!Hopefully someone will come along and articulate this much better than I can...

Meanwhile hope you're feeling a bit stronger and more resolute today.

Original poster
snowflake02 · 20/10/2015 12:44

If it helps, he will say it after waking me up in the morning or as soon as we get into bed at night, no real lead up to it from my point of view. Other than the fact I already know that he wants it because he wants it all the time.

OP posts:
BitOutOfPractice · 20/10/2015 13:10

My DP might sidle up to me in bed and say "Fancy a fuck darling?" in a very playful loving way, to make me laugh more than anything, part of the jokey banter and chat we have all the time. And on the back of us being friendly and initimate in a non sexual way (eg cuddled up on the sofa). In fact I've just text him to ask him if he's up for it tonight, again in a jokey (but quite crude) way using an in-joke we have. If he says no that's fine too. It's all very light hearted and non-pressured

It's all about the tone and the intent isn't it?

I'm sorry to go into such detail Blush but I wanted to show you what it's like in a loving, mutually respectful relationship

IMHO sex should be a fun, enjoyable, exciting aspect to a relationship. Something that enhances and builds on mutual feelings of love. Not a power play or a guilt trip or a one way street where one partner gets to call all the shots.

BitOutOfPractice · 20/10/2015 13:15

Can I just say that we are not always so crude. Sometimes it just "happens" too. I feel like a sex maniac now! Grin

fuzzywuzzy · 20/10/2015 13:27

if I'm not in the mood DP doesn't even instigate.

Ex on the other hand couldn't give a crap and when I was married to him, it was hell. So so so glad he is an ex, my only regret, why on earth did I not leave him sooner.

ChocolateBreeze · 20/10/2015 13:36

snowflake
What you've posted about sounds quite wrong. What you went through with your ex wasn't that long ago if I recall. Not wanting to sound preachy here but give yourself a break to recover properly. That guy sounds like a sordid variation on an old theme unfortunately.

Have name changed for this but having recently left a sexually abusive marriage myself I must say everything you've said about him has given me the creeps. Ditch him before you get hurt.

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 20/10/2015 13:48

Is it normal for someone to initiate sex by simply saying 'I want to f*k you'? or 'do you want to f*k me'?

As crudely as that out of the blue? for most people, absolutely No. Only very socially-limited men who aren't interested in .. you know ... finding out what a woman actually likes and what might actually turn her on, say things like that. (okay there are a few people in a loving relationship might be okay with it, but they don't feel pressured!)

The fact you've raised this shows you're not comfortable with it, and that on its own shows that in this context, it's not ok.

BitOutOfPractice · 20/10/2015 13:51

Exactly once being crude and blunt is not wrong per se. It's about the context of a. the comment b. the whole relationship

Saying it playfully and being perfectly fine if the answer is "no" is OK. Just saying it out of the blue like that and then getting the hump if you say "no" is not OK.

FurbysMakeSexNoises · 20/10/2015 13:52

I think there's another version- sometimes DH well up for it and I've been messing around on my phone for ages or watching TV so not feeling sexy. He lights a candle and unless I genuinely don't want to (which I would make clear and he would accept- possibly with a slight huff if I've given the impression earlier on that I would be up for it) I often think well why not? And end up having a lovely time. Not coercion and something I feel totally happy with in our very loving equal relationship.

Elendon · 20/10/2015 13:53

The only type of persuasion that is ever acceptable is where the man seeks to pleasure the woman to the point where she wants to have sex, whether that be physical (a kiss or caress) romantic (a candlelit dinner) or emotional (looking after the kids and cleaning the kitchen while you have a bath)
This type of gentle persuasion results in a very willing partner.

That is not acceptable. He should be doing this regardless of whether he wants sex or not. Giving pleasure is not measured ever by the amount of sex one has.

And if sex is off the menu, well it's off the menu. Personally, If I was in a restaurant and was told something was off the menu, something I really wanted, I'd not get all moody and aggressive, I'd happily pick something else out. I'd be disappointed not to have the meal, but I'd enjoy the company I'm with and the meal of second choice.

pocketsaviour · 20/10/2015 14:05

Snowflake please don't feel stupid for ending up with this tosser after your marriage. When you've had someone who is so outright physically abusive forcing you into sex, it's very easy to then see the next bloke who comes along as totally different because he doesn't hold you down. Especially if he keeps telling you what a lovely bloke he is Hmm

I've been there. I was in a relationship with a guy who physically forced me numerous times, and also hit me out of bed. I broke free of him but then ended up with another man who on the face of it was completely different, but his entitled attitude was the same. If he didn't get what he wanted, he sulked so badly and the atmosphere was so awful that I would just give him sex to avoid the walking on eggshells.

When, after a long time, I told him that the therapy I was having (for childhood sexual abuse) was really stirring things up and I would not be having PIV sex with him while I was feeling like this (although I still offered him handjobs) he immediately went out and started banging someone else Shock

I stayed with him for 7 years. It is incredibly hard to break out of this sort of pattern. You have recognised it early on so well done to you. Be kind to yourself because you deserve so much more than this. Flowers

Elendon · 20/10/2015 14:11

Everything Pocket said also.

Sleepybeanbump · 20/10/2015 14:19

Yes. Absolutely. Not even a whiff of unspoken resentment or pressure or anything. My dh is lovely.

We did go through a bad patch a few years ago where he got very distant physically, I then got resentful and uptight and on the rare occasions he did come anywhere near me I literally flinched. He raised it with me and said he found it hurtful. All the bottled up stuff on both sides came out and things gradually got a lot better.

Sometimes I'm not massively in the mood but we're both so busy and stressed it doesn't often happen so I sometimes feel I 'should'- for both our sakes, not just his. And I'm always glad that I did afterwards. I enjoy it and it brings us closer and relaxes us.

V occasionally he'll start getting interested at a really inopportune time (we're just about to go out) and I'll laughingly brush him off and joke that he could have done it at a better time and he might jokingly look mournful at me. That's it. A joke.

I've never been in a relationship before where there was no pressure- either for sex per se or certain things that I wasn't keen on.

Sleepybeanbump · 20/10/2015 14:22

Sorry, didn't RTFT. I'm really sorry for what you're going through snow.

m0therofdragons · 20/10/2015 14:26

If I'm not in the mood dh just cuddles or makes me a cup of tea - maybe because he knows I won't say no to that? Probably because I rarely say no so he would assume I was under the weather or stressed.

ChocolateBreeze · 20/10/2015 14:27

What I meant is really as pocket above. Hope what I said didn't sound harsh. You did really well to make the break from your ex, so be kind to yourself. You need kindness, not someone who wants to use you again.

OddlyLogical · 20/10/2015 14:59

Elendon I didn't say or mean that the gentle persuasion should only happen with the expectation of sex. Of course that kind of affection and consideration should be happening all the time, but it can also be used as a way of getting your partner in the mood to be receptive to an approach. I do it with my DH, he does it with me. We are affectionate a lot of the time, but if one of us fancies sex, we will use a different type of more persuasive affection to show the other that we are in the mood. It is persuasion, but there is no expectation.

If anyone gets moody or aggressive - that's pressure and is unacceptable in any relationship, but persuasion is fine as long as the persuader does not use pressure and has no problem accepting a no or responds to non-verbal signs that say no.