Help me decide what to do tonight - cancel or not?

[brannigan]

I have been dating a guy for about 3 months. I say three months but we've only had 4 dates because we both have insane summer-heavy jobs and also both had long holidays away over summer with our respective kids.

We keep in touch via text and phone quite regularly.

I like him...he ticks all the boxes. Handsome, clever, kind, responsible but he is also a it rubbish at romance which he apologises for. I admittedly feel no sense of intimacy at all with him.

I ended it a few weeks ago as I felt he wasn't making enough effort to see me and contact was dwindling which I read as a loss off interest. He phoned and said it wasn't a loss of interest he was just busy over the summer and was going to put some real effort into building a relationship after summer. He said he was a bit lost after being hurt a few years ago and this was his first relationship and he seems sincere (he's not a player) so I decided to give the benefit of the doubt.

So this week is the week our schedules finally get easier and we had long ago booked to spend the weekend away together, and I am meant to be leaving in a few hours.

On the upside, he has made the effort to plan something, and he has also made plans for a couple more dates and another weekend away next month and has acted the perfect gentleman in that sense.

On the downside, he's barely talked to me all week and could have made time to ask me out for a drink or something but hasn't. He went two days without a single text or call at the start of the week, then said he was sorry someone had died (sounded like a very long distance ex work colleague) and then the past two days he had done it again to the point I woke up this morning unsure if I was going or not. He's also not once said he is looking forward to seeing me or anything at all.

I got a text this morning finally to say sorry he'd been mentally busy and what time and when to meet him.

I don't want to be a drama queen, but it all feels so depressing....going on a weekend away with a man who can't be fucked to find 30 seconds in a day to text me and hasn't said a word about being pleased to see me after 6 weeks apart.

What should I do?

I am leaning towards going along and trying to talk to him and get to the bottom of this cold behavior and figure out what's going on and on the other hand I just feel a bit like going out with someone else who can be arsed a bit more.

He's not a dick...not at all...but I get the sense he's not the best with women.

When did you find out he had left his wife and children - at the week-end?

If before that, why did you think that was all you deserved? Would counselling help here do you think? You say up thread that you don't want to tell your family what happened but for a lot of people it is family who they turn to in times like this, so it may be worth working through whether your relationship with your family influences your other relationships.

In all honesty, I would ask him to stop with the emails or he will bombard you and drag you down. He had his chance, and if he is struggling emotionally then he needs professional help, not to unburden on the person he has hurt. Block him if necessary.

(we PMd yesterday btw - different name now)

Well knobbly...that's what's interesting

On our very first phonecall, before first date, he told me that he had left his wife because she was cold / unnaffectionate / imasculated him and did not give him sympathy and support when he lost his job and his mother died.

He said he had felt life was too short to stay in an unfulfilling marraige but they were happily divorced.

He sounded TOTALLY fine and healthy with it and I was okay with that.

He told me he had dated one woman for a couple of years after her, but that they had not lived together or anything and she had meft him for someone else because he would not commit but that he hd taken two years out and was ready now to find "the one".

All sounded normal to me...newly divorced...grieving...fine to not commit to the rebound lady.

Then this weekend he told me the real story!!!! He pretty much blurted it out over the dinner table.

A similar tale, but he actually met the new woman six months before and carried out a six month affair. The wife found out. Bitter divorce. He moved out but his parents told him real men don't leave their kids so he never moved in with the new woman.

She got pregnant within months and he said he did not want the baby.

The new woman eventually got frustrated (he would not have kids, wouldn't marry her or live with her) and she met someone else and quickly married and had a baby. He said he loved her but felt too guilty towards his kids to start a new family.

So obviously, I was less than impressed with this tale and told him pretty straight up that he wasn't the victim in any of this. That he should have left his wife before starting up with someone new and that it was almost worse in a sense that he strung the new woman along, not caring at all about her needs whilst claiming to love her, made her abort a baby essentially when she had no children and wanted a family and really gave her no life at all except limbo.

I have him a royal bollocking to be honest BUT he showed a lot of remorse and understanding and he realised he was a prick and gave good answers and said he would do it diferrent in the future and had learned from his mistakes.

So anyway...yes....he did shit things and none of them were impressive but he did seem so agonised by it genuinely that I felt it was ok.

So anyway...when he mentions in his message that I got him thining about his behavior and the past and all that I did - I definitely did give him a hard time over it.

That might be why. Maybe he wanted me to tell him he was a victim and insted I told him he was an arsehole.

Good on you for being forthright and honest - nothing you now describe has redeeming features.

Yeps- sounds like a man-child to me. You were meant to pay him on the head, comfort and soothe the prat him.

Did you not want separate rooms at that stage?

No because he was presetning it as "I did this wrong, this is my worst side, I went to counselling, I see my mistakes, I am a better man".

It was very convincing.

yes pat

Sounds like he's now treating you as an unpaid counsellor.

If that's a prospect you relish, then don't tell him to sod off.

definitely how it felt!

God he's me me me isn't he? Why is he sending you emails full of angst and self-analysis?

That story of his is horrible. Shame you didn't run a mile then.

Well, you don't need that in your life right now. Stop being nice, dammit!

"Dear Introspector,

I need to ask you to stop emailing me now. You've clearly got lots of issues to work out, and while I do wish you luck, I am not your counsellor. I need to put my own feelings first, not yours. I hope that you find someone who is willing to spend hours gazing at your navel, because I am emphatically not that person.

Goodbye and good luck,

Brannigan"

Like it lacontessa!

While laughing through Contessa's suggestion i was just thinking about something.

The thing about Mumsnet is that you often get better answers of strangers who are just reading the salient facts that you do off people who might be involved in it in real life.

My best friend, who hates all my boyfriends, likes this one and is judging him off months of all the nice things he did and how steady and good he was, how great he is with his children, the stuff he does on facebook and all the rest of it and she thinks I should give him time and space and then revisit.

My counsellor, who I saw this morning and told this stupid story to said "People who are good enough to feel the guilt he feels don't do cruel things in love unless they are acting unconsciously." and also gave me a full psycho analytical breakdown of how and why and for what he behaved this way (says he needs a year of therapy to work on intimacy issues)

And in a way they both have good points.

But for whatever reason the minute you type it into a thread...all of the extras and outside things get wiped away and you're left with just the bare bones facts.

He's troubled.
He's got form for being a twat.
He's totally self-centred
He's treated me like shit

And it becomes more black and white and I think sometimes situation are better assessed like that.

I spend all my life trying to explain why people do things to make me feel better and I'm starting to think it doesn't matter at all. It only matters that they've done it.

Maybe all the women on here have a lot more collective experience of dating / total twats / troubled people and all the rest of it to know that even if you can work situation like this out (I probably could call him now and suggest we talk about it and gets some counselling and he'd do it) - but the end result is I am in a relationship with someone who'd make a really crappy partner and who would never think about me at all.

Your counsellor sounds like a twat!
We're right, she's wrong

It's a him!!!

Ha ha though! Yes, bit of a twat. He suggested I contact him to suggest he needed therapy, with an older ladyto replace his Mother.

I did say "do you not think he is just a twat?"

And he said all twats have motivation for being a twat. I think he missed the point that on a 5th date / new relationship I don't need to be trying to help someone not be a twat.

x

"Him: M25 is not as interesting as you
Me: I had fun tonight
Him: Yeah?
Me: Yeah I really did!
Him: it surpassed expectations
Him: When you said hello at the bar I thought you looked very pretty and very friendly, familiar and I felt comfortable around you. Then when you talked about the need for passion in life - I loved that as I hate wishy washy. I thought I like this girl, she's bright, fun and on it. I like the fact you work for yourself, without having a massive ego - turn on for me. Very attractive all in all and I wish we’d met for longer.
Me: Yes. Me too. We can soon.
Him: This summer my kids are away a bit and I'm not working everyday - so we should be able to have some good times....would be good to have some good laughs and go to some fun places if you can get the time.
Me: Deffo
Me: I'm sleepy
Me: I had fun tonight smile
Him: Good. You deserve the word feisty as your most definitely are! We'd better both sleep! I wish you were!"

In future, I would take this over-wordy initial contact as a red flag rather than reassuring?

He comes across as someone who is overanalysing and communicating in a (dull) stream of consciousness.

and that rather twee "assessment of your performance and labelling you" makes him seems incredibly socially clunky. A lot of women wouldn't maintain contact with him after that.

It's all about what HE thinks of you, isn't it? He "hates" wishy washy women. He labels you "feisty".

It's all him, him, him.

This kind of person generally turns out to be a bore who is a lot less interesting than they think they are but tries to maintain that they are some mysterious debonair type with strings of people competing for their attention.

I agree with your counsellor. I don't think he set out with the intention of hurting you, but the strength of his issues were such did so. BUT, he handled it badly and didn't communicate and, more importantly, he was stressing you out and was hard work whilst I get the impression you are looking for a healthier relationship.

Yes, I just wanted a healthy relationship really. I don't want to scrape up the ashes of broken man. Not because I am mean but because from experience they don't have anything to give back and I want to be properly loved.

Spag, I liked his texts...maybe I have shit taste!

I don't think he set out to hurt me either.

But I do think he could have come to this conclusion BEFORE he hd sex with me, certainly before the 4th or 5th time and i also think if he felt unsure at all he should not have done it.

Even with that taken into consideration, he could have texted me the day after I came home and asked to meet me for a drink to explain all this.

There is always a choice of how you handle things and he handled it appalingly. At 44 I find no excuse.

It just seems TOO much like he's standing outside looking down at the scene and thinking about himself as a character in it, rather than actually communicating authentically.

The message I'm reading isn't "I want to compliment someone and convey I find her attractive" - and set up another meet so I can close this relationship.

but "My thoughts are the most important thing and everyone is interested to hear my shit adolescent views on how I felt and what women should/shouldn't be like".

At the early stages of a relationship, both folks should be a bit nervous about "am I making the other person happy and will they want me"

He's basically set things up as if he's doing you a massive favour by letting you "please" him.

He has isssssssssshhhhhhhueeees.

I'm tempted to diagnose your counsellor with man-itis - i.e. he thinks it is your job to help your man to get over his twattiness and make him love himself, because obviously the most important thing in a relationship is that the man be happy.

If you're planning on seeing the counsellor again, I'd suggest that you take a 'not my circus, not my monkeys' approach to ex-bloke. The counsellor's response to this will be interesting - if he radiates a 'well I think you're making a poor choice' attitude rather than a 'whatever you choose is fine' one, then I don't think I'd want to see him again.

Surely the counsellor is saying that OP shouldn't blame herself and that the guy was motivated to behave like this due to his issues - not defending him LaContessa

I think he was comforting me.

He said if I wanted to put a label on it that I could respect him for his moral suffering and be hurt a bit that I had to suffer a bit too as part of getting embroiled in it. He most definitely didn't think it was intentional.

Probably a good way to see it.

I do definitely think the guy has issues and a lot of pain but could have handled it better.

I also think I will hear from him again so it's quite important for my own wellbeing to remember he's not capable, even if he wnated to, of giving me a goo relationship.

Aside from anything else his text read to me that he still loved his ex.

He could DEFINITELY have handled it better.

It feels like the people around you in RL are terribly reasonable and trying to see the other side; good thing you have all of us too, to be firmly on yours

You are so much better out of this finding out now. There seems so much baggage with him that it would have been very difficult even in a perfect situation.