Help me decide what to do tonight - cancel or not?

[brannigan]

I have been dating a guy for about 3 months. I say three months but we've only had 4 dates because we both have insane summer-heavy jobs and also both had long holidays away over summer with our respective kids.

We keep in touch via text and phone quite regularly.

I like him...he ticks all the boxes. Handsome, clever, kind, responsible but he is also a it rubbish at romance which he apologises for. I admittedly feel no sense of intimacy at all with him.

I ended it a few weeks ago as I felt he wasn't making enough effort to see me and contact was dwindling which I read as a loss off interest. He phoned and said it wasn't a loss of interest he was just busy over the summer and was going to put some real effort into building a relationship after summer. He said he was a bit lost after being hurt a few years ago and this was his first relationship and he seems sincere (he's not a player) so I decided to give the benefit of the doubt.

So this week is the week our schedules finally get easier and we had long ago booked to spend the weekend away together, and I am meant to be leaving in a few hours.

On the upside, he has made the effort to plan something, and he has also made plans for a couple more dates and another weekend away next month and has acted the perfect gentleman in that sense.

On the downside, he's barely talked to me all week and could have made time to ask me out for a drink or something but hasn't. He went two days without a single text or call at the start of the week, then said he was sorry someone had died (sounded like a very long distance ex work colleague) and then the past two days he had done it again to the point I woke up this morning unsure if I was going or not. He's also not once said he is looking forward to seeing me or anything at all.

I got a text this morning finally to say sorry he'd been mentally busy and what time and when to meet him.

I don't want to be a drama queen, but it all feels so depressing....going on a weekend away with a man who can't be fucked to find 30 seconds in a day to text me and hasn't said a word about being pleased to see me after 6 weeks apart.

What should I do?

I am leaning towards going along and trying to talk to him and get to the bottom of this cold behavior and figure out what's going on and on the other hand I just feel a bit like going out with someone else who can be arsed a bit more.

He's not a dick...not at all...but I get the sense he's not the best with women.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Humm, that councellor doesn't sound great from that snapshot... It's simply not true that someone who feels a high level of guilt is somehow a nice guy or should be excused from his own behaviours.

My ex h was terribly remorseful and racked with self pity. Didn't stop his severe levels of abuse though. He also did the 'oh pity me I am so bad for having so e this too you'. Strangely I don't fall for that anymore.

(Reveals why I'm not out there OLD even though I'd bloody love a partner)

[brannigan]

Yes I know people can feel guilty and still be abusive. I have been around real abuse and experienced people who don't feel guilt though and I suppise they are worse.

What the counsellor was trying to say I think was that he didn't think I'd been played.

[brannigan]

I am feeling blue right now!

I know I wasn't mad about him but miss talking and swapping texts and chating over our days and all that.

It's funny how people become a habit in such a short time. I've had far worse though!

[Morganly]

Except he wasn't so good with the swapping texts etc, was he?

Do you have any female friends to talk to and swap texts with and chat about your days?

[KobblyKnees]

Swap posts on here instead! We won't cause you so much heartache and stress. If it's a habit now, it would become more of a habit if you continue to be his agony aunt.

Are you still going on your date on Saturday?

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

The red flag in this relationship was that you'd only had 4 dates in 3 months. Nobody is that busy.

Your instincts are great! Problem is, feistiness is not seen these days as a good female trait. These days, most dating advice for women is bullshit.

Read an empowering dating book and feed your inner FeistyWoman. The Rules is actually genius (anyone who criticises it really doesn't "get" it), or Why Men Love Bitches. When you follow books like those, situations like these simply don't arise. You wouldn't find yourself locked in an exclusive pseudo-relationship after 3/4 dates, you wouldn't be shagging all weekend on the 5th date (especially when you never heard from him), you wouldn't be telling people why you were dumping them (so they wouldn't be able to talk you into taking them back; you'd just be gone).

Honestly, read the books, have a fantastic date on Saturday and see as many men as possible (without shagging all of them, as you're the type to get attached) until one of them begs you to be their exclusive girlfriend.

[brannigan]

Thanks whatsgoingon

I know, that's true. I was playing the rules at first though you know, and then when he wanted to be exclusive and take down dating profiles I said yes. I was not the one doing the chasing here.

In the first month he was just as "busy" but he was all over seeing me and talking. He was hassling me "oh come on, I'll drive over to your just for a quick drink" and the texts and calls were coming every day, every minute and nothing was too much trouble. I was thinking "wow this guy is really into me".

Being honest with myself the second month he stopped trying to see me as much, the texts were less and he stopped phoning. When we did talk it was less personal. I knew it, I noticed it, I asked him about it twice and he was pretty vehement that it was purely that his workload / stresses going on and I made the cardinal mistake of believing what I wanted to believe instead of judging only off the facts.

He gave me red flags before I went away for the weekend, I saw them, but he interespered them with green flags (taking his dating profile down, plannign dates a month in advance) and I was blinded with contradiction.

I think reality was...he wanted a relationship, he was lonely, but he was not ready to be in one and he certainly was not seeing me properly at all. More as someone who was the right age, right looks, right job and perfect for the job.

I told friends many times I felt businesslike around him in some ways. And maybe it was. He was emotionally unavailble. Yes he would talk to me if I had a bad day and help me and support me but it was like a colleague, not a lover.

He was never ready to give. He asked me so many questions about my life, dreams, son, family, past and he wanted to chat about that but it felt emotionally distant. He never "gave" properly and I felt that lack of intimacy which I have mentioned before.

Going on the date and spending the whole time showing me his things, telling me about his life, inviting me into his soul and spilling out every bit of his past pain and childhood was not him sharing with me - it was him taking from me.

He was more interested in himself and not me. He was self-absorbed, self centred, showing off to me trying to impress me in a lot of ways and get my approval to say I thought his house was nice. Nothing on that date was about me at all...any woman in the world could have taken my place and he miht not have noticed.

I am not sure he was evil or anything and I doubt he planned this in any way, shape or form but he's a pretty selfish person with little to offer and not capable of giving love.

An emotionally mature person would have listened a month ago to the fact that my needs were not being met and he would have seriously enquired about /listed to my needs and cared about my wellbeing. I don't think he did at all.

As his mother was bipolar and a narcissist (which he talked a lot about) I am actually wondring if maybe the apple does not fall far from the tree on the narc front. Maybe inespable but he seemed like a good man in some ways but definitely one with a big desire for admiration, approval and an almost bottomless pit of need.

There was definetly something missing from the very start in terms of emotional connection. But there was something attractive to me about this man who was nothing like all the others who were on my doorstep declaring wild love and passion for me only to let me down.

This one was reserved, serious, not hugely romantic but dynamic and positive and interested in me with no big emotional demands.

Unlike the others who would go on and on about wanting to shag me and all the diferrent ways they wanted to do it, this one wanted to go to the theatre or for a picnic in the countryside and he wnated to know everything about me.

He set himself up in my mind over a month as being honest, stable, reliable, tustworthy, completely interested in me, solid and a good bet. Then he changed suddenly and when I questioned it he threw me off with false clues.

I think I just went for the opposite sort of a man - seeing as he seemed to be so diferrent - but he was just the same in a diferrent guise. Emotionally unavailable.

[ChilliAndMint]

WhatsGoingOnEh..thanks for that recommendation. I've
just bought Why Men Love Bitches...it has some rave reviews.

brannigan.....be honest with yourself, you knew deep down you were flogging a dead horse didn't you?

I got slated by a couple of posters for suggesting early on that he sounded controlling, but I wasn't wrong. I don't think Mr Emotionally Unavailable has much respect for women, you are well shot of him.

[ChilliAndMint]

Also, though I hate to say this, I can only guess that his infrequent dates had something to do with their being other irons in the fire.

[brannigan]

Yes, I knew deep down I was flogging a dead horse.

It wasn't just how he was towards me (distant) it was more him as himself.

I knew he wasn't funny or had the same sense of humour as me
I knew although he's exceptionally handsome he was a bad kisser (just shoved tongue in my mouth and left it there)
I knew he was a lot older than me and was a bit more boring (I still like getting pissed and he's more the quiet glass of wine type)
I knew we'd never like the same holidays
I knew he was too serious and straight to get on with my friends
I knew he lives 1.5 hours away and NO WAY would I ever move for a man again and neither would he
I knew that his texts and calls didn't make me feel loved up

I knew a lot things and kept wondering if I was settling because "on paper" he was everything I wanted really.

I just would have liked to have not been shagged and dumped because I talked myself into it.

My own fault really. I was trying to like him more than I did.

Men love bitches is hilarious!

[brannigan]

Nah, there was no way there was anyone else. He was bloody awful with women.

[Wando]

We have all been there and you learn from experience. It's only in the cold light of day that you can do the comparison like you did above

[samlamb]

Whatsgoingoneh
thanks for the recommendations, can I just ask you is the 'The rules' just called that or is it 'the new rules'?

OP I have been following with intrest as going through EXACTLY the same thing, loads of texts/phonecalls shagged then dumped but wants FWB! I am thinking of you

[brannigan]

Yes it's the new rules I think.

I get the concept with the book in a lot of general terms and don't have the same issues most people have with it (it's game playing!) because I do think men can be pretty pathetic like that and enjoy the thrill of the chase and the feeling they have something of value.

But also think it applies in a world where it's taken for granted all men are emotionally normal. Which they're not.

Reality is, the most dangerous ones for women like me who DON'T chase men EVER, who ALWAYS makes them put in the work, who ALWAYS walks away if being messed about in an obvious way...the real issue is the mentalist idiots who do it all......courtship, pursuit, making you a priority, shoing consistency, ask to go exclusive and then the mental comes out...

Once they have you, the hot and cold starts. Once they have passed every test things change. By then it is very difficult to extracate yourself because we are only human and want to see the best.

What it requires to not be hurt is to really go through months of initial dating without forming an emotional attachment and I worrry sometimes where the line between self protection and becoming emotionally unavailable yourself is.

I hope all these dating nightmares don't turn me into that sort of person

I am still, perhaps naively, waiting for that man who comes along that I don;t need to read a book to understand or catch!

Sorry you had the same Sam. It really is a funny psychological dynamic that if anyone at all shows clear interest, desire, attraction, commitment, attention and feeling for you over a long period of time an then withdraws it that it fucks with your head. Irrespective of how much you like or want them it creates an insecurity and an awful feeling inside.

Hot and cold is such a common game,

[samlamb]

Brannigan

You are perfectly spot on in what you say. It rings so true. With me, I am blaming myself in the 'I'm such a shit person/have two kids=baggage /stretchmark's/scars of course nobody wants me for more than sex'...god it goes on and I feel so fucking worthless and unwanted.
However, your thread and experience(s) have made me feel slightly better so thank you for sharing. I have bought the books though!

[Nevergoingtolearn]

Yes, everything you say is true.

I have been online dating for a little while now and have met several men like him, I'm quite shocked how many men are like this , I am beginning to wonder if their are many genuine men out there ( I'm sure there are but they seem almost impossible to find ).

I am talking to several men at the moment, I'm quite shocked how far these men are willing to travel if they think there's a chance of getting sex, the reason why they can't find someone local to them is probably because they are a complete c**t .

I have had men talk to me ( you could probably call it grooming ) for weeks, telling me how brilliant they are, how they will shower me in gifts, treat me like a lady, etc....etc..., to begin with I fell for it, would go on a couple dates, dtd and then 'what a surprise' they vanish. I'm now a lot more careful and I haven't been on a date for a while.

[brannigan]

Maybe for ment he goal is diferrent?

They are looking for sex as the goal?

Not anti men or anything but oviously we don;t meet men and go "oh wow, let's try and make him like me so he shags me" and I pretty much think they do that.

They get a bit infatuated, whereas we tend to start liiking them more slowly.

So I suppose meet us and the first thing they want from us is attention, sex or to "score" and we are coming from a diferrent approach where the interest grows over time.

I dunno.

I think I am going to go back to "no sex" policy. At least if you don;t shag them you don;t feel so shit.

[ChilliAndMint]

Funny you should mention he asked you to remove your online dating profile. A couple of men I've met have asked me to do this, and then gone
" poof" and vanished.

I'm going to have another go at OLD ,but try to be a bit more guarded, less trusting ,and walk away from those that make up the rules as they go along, blowing hot and cold etc.

Got chatted up at work today ( again!) He was ever so good looking, had a cheeky sparkle in his eyes, but when he asked was I single ,could he have my number I told him straight that no, he couldn't as I am not a fan of bad language ( every other work was fuck).

I'm beginning to wise up a lot, I'm sure you are OP, this is a learning curve and we both will meet a decent fella in time.

[brannigan]

Ooops. I say fuck a lot

Glad you got chatted up :) Always nice.

Yes...wising up, oh yes, I suppose we all are.

I am going to keep at the dating too. Not going to let it knock me down because I want to meet someone who makes me happy and he must be there somewhere.

I am actually feeling quite positive. Starting to bounce a bit easier, and also laughing slighly inside at the idea of him out in the wilderness on his own "finding himself" and all that. Not being mean, but what a muppet.

I did cancel my date on Saturday. I like him a lot but he seems a bit too full on. I have actually spent the past month wondering whether to dump the guy this thread was about for this one - who is more emotional, much more touchy feely and I have more interesting conversations with but he's scaring me off by acting like he just knows he is going to love me before he meets me.

For a start it makes me feel paranoid I will be a let down in the flesh and all that.

[brannigan]

Ahem

By the way. Did not dump man on this thread for the other one because I felt man on this thread was more reliable / more emtionally stable / less likely to cause drama in my life.

Ha ha ha!!!

Maybe I am not learning as much as I thought!!!

[ChilliAndMint]

I know you didn't. Mr Cool sounded off from the start and you were in two minds whether to see him or not.

Don't beat yourself up over him; he sounds like a complete head fuck.

Same for me with Mr Camping. I'm thinking mine might be gay, his overplaying the hairy arsed trucker thing and other stuff. I wont elaborate; it's done and dusted.

[DarkNavyBlue]

Hang on. If you sent a 'how dare you" message to him, is it not you that did the dumping.

That's how I'd think of it in my head anyway if I were you!

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

The Rules is the first book -- it was repackaged in the UK, incorporating the second book (The Rules II) as "All the Rules". I thought "the New Rules" was the very latest one, called "Not Your Mother's Rules" in the US.

You don't want The New Rules, you want the first book, The Rules. Well, both of them, really. TR gives you the actual idea, TNR includes more about social media, texting, etc.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

www.amazon.co.uk/All-Rules-Time-Tested-Secrets-Capturing/dp/0446618799?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

This is the original book, packaged up with the second book, too. Get this! Then get The New Rules. There is also The Rules for Online Dating, and The Rules for Marriage. Get all of them!!!!! [crazed fan]

It's the only series of books where the advice infalliably works.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

This is the most recent book, with texting tips, etc. The New Rules.


The Rules for Online Dating is ok, but probably one of the weakest books. Neither of the authors dud online-dating, you can tell.