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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
MeganBacon · 10/08/2015 11:46

Or he should be paying rent equivalent to 50% of the mortgage payments as they would be if it were FULLY mortgaged up to its current market value. You have equity in your house and that's not there for him to benefit from just as you don't benefit from the equity he has in his property.
He's really taking you for a ride, having just read your more recent posts.
Of course he should pay you rent - why should a man on £85K not pay for the roof over his own head? Would that we could all house ourselves for free.

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:47

please don't have a baby with this tightwad.

I can tell you what will happen, he'll get a shit hot solicitor and they'll put you in the position of having to prove you're broke before you're entitled to ask for money. He'll present himself as broke or with loads of outgoings. His solicitor will make you feel like a grasping entitled single mother with two kids by two dads, looking for more handouts. then he'll get a great barrister. The barrister's fee he'll happily pay, maintenance to his child, he'll beat that down as low as possible. And he'll torment you by putting it in a bit later every month so that he only pays 11 times a year not 12. but you'll feel grateful to get anything cos deep downn you know, and always knew that he was as mean and as tight as ebenezer scrooge.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 11:47

Waltzing in London people pay rent on shared rooms.

If he were contributing fairly and proportionately to the household I wouldn't so hot on his not paying rent. I feel sure that if the OP had moved in with him he would take no rent or mortgage contribution as gold-digging.

I do think he should be paying towards the upkeep of the house on top of utilities.

SweetAndFullOfGrace · 10/08/2015 11:48

In your position OP, I think that you should move to treating your finances wholly separately unless and until he buys in to a shared view on finances (shared does not mean you do what he tells you re money, it means compromise and agree). You have a horrible halfway situation here, and it's causing stress.

Stop agreeing to spend your money on dinners and date night and so on if you can't afford it. He earns considerably more than you and has fewer outgoings. Anyone normal in a balanced relationship would not expect to be splitting costs 50:50 in that situation, much less describe himself as effectively a "lodger" from a financial input perspective.

Oh, and you should only pay for what you wanted to spend on the kitchen, not what his wastefulness with your money turned it into.

theredjellybean · 10/08/2015 11:48

from your posts FF I don't hear anything about love/respect...this man you I presume are supposed to be in a loving relationship with is happy to see you struggling and thinks you are only with him to leach him of money...errr.....attitudes towards spending etc aside surely anyone can see this is a massive massive red flag.
someone who loves you , would a) never say such a thing, b) not want you worry and fretting over an issue they can help with c) want to be a family and this means all contributing etc.

I just do not understand how this man can even begin to believe he is in a loving caring relationship when he amounts living together as 'a flatshare'.

Frankly I think any plans for a baby are absolutely beyond bonkers...and I would suggest he moves back to his place asap .
Honestly OP don't put up with being treated like this in your own home.
You could continue the relationship , go out, date etc but living like this is crazy

FanOfHermione · 10/08/2015 11:50

He should be paying some 'rent' to you because very clearly he is living in your house and isn't living in his!
Atm he is in effect saving the whole value of his morgage (£1000 per month?) which is a hell of a lot of money anbd living free of any rent whilst you are in effect subsidising his morgage. How is that fair?

The question about splitting the food in 3s and 2s.... I'm sorry. It's not even about not seing yourself as a family. It's about being so stingy that it's unbearable. Is it REALLY an issue fort him to pay what? £100 per month more with the wage he has? If he had a low income, I coud understaand. At that level of income, I don't sorry...

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 11:50

If you had children together, how would you explain to your dd why he pays for his own child but won't spend a dime on her?

He will demand full financial control of the household, it will be a misery.

faitaccompli · 10/08/2015 11:51

I have committed the cardinal sin by not reading anything after page 1 as I am so incensed by his horrible attitude! So apologies if I am repeating previous posts.

The resolution is obvious to me. You all move into HIS house, you rent out your house and pay nothing towards his house unless he puts you on the deeds ...

In reality. What would it cost for you to rent a house similar to the one you are living in? Then split that 50/50 and he should be paying you that amount each month. He has to live somewhere, and why should he not pay for the privilege.

Tell him you want to move into his house and see how he starts squealing then ...

TheVeryThing · 10/08/2015 11:52

Whatever you do do not allow this man to become primary carer to your child.

I wouldn't have a child with him at all (or indeed, a relationship), but if you allow him to follow through on his plan to go part time you will put yourself in a very vulnerable position.

Viviennemary · 10/08/2015 11:54

I've now read a bit more of this thread and agree with the person who says rent a different house and split costs. It is the only way forward. I agree he is mean. But both of you earn substantially above the average wage so this arguing over money at this early stage is not a good sign. But I have to agree with him that you are living beyond your means as an individual as regards the school fees. Really the best thing to do would be to run a mile.

Skiptonlass · 10/08/2015 11:56

Several things here would be a deal breaker for me. you say he's great with your dd..but he isn't, is he? His refusal to pay towards her food/living expenses show you something absolutely critical - he sees her as another man's child, as a drain on himself. That is not love, and it is not how to build a stable step family. It's very, very worrying indeed. The two of you should be a package. My stepfather met my mother when she had small children and has never, ever treated us differently to his own kids. We are extremely close.

You are in dangerous territory here. He's not good with money by the way - who the hell has 80k sitting in a current account when it could be invested and working for them?? He's tight. Repeat that to yourself. Tight with money and tight with affection.

He's got cheap lodgings, a cook, cleaner and sex on tap
He's got a nice new kitchen and it's going on your mortgage.
He's hankering for his bachelor pad and guilt tripping you over it
He's refusing to enter any kind of financial family arrangement
He's angling to get on your deeds
He's refusing to pay towards your daughter - the money isn't really the issue is it? It's the refusal to support your child as part of the family.
He's got you to make adjustments to your house on his whim, which have left you needing to remortgage
He's reduced your income by removing your lodger, whilst boosting his by renting his house.

Do not have a baby with this man! If you do, I guarantee you you'll be living in poverty while he holds the purse strings, your daughter is treated like crap, pulled out of her school, and deprived of love and financial support.

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:56

True theverything I thought that too. OP could end up paying him maintenance to look after his only child, as well as huge mortgage repayments on the house he made you remortgage. While OP , earning 30k less still supports her other child of course. And please don't be naive enough to think, oh that couldn't happen. This type of man will scrimp on how many fish fingers your dd is allowed to eat but he won't scrimp on soclicitors and barristers .

It is obvious to a blind man that if you had a baby with this man it wouldn't work out. And he wouldn't suddenly become more reasonable when you were his x.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 11:56

I'm interested that he sees himself going part time when if you have a child. Presumably you would continue to work FT?

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:56
Brew

Apologies if I sound horribly mean to you. I don't mean to be. I really don't want you to end up screwed. You have it good without him!

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 11:58

TheVeryThing exactly.

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:59

Yes Skiptonlass and Trilbot, I wouldn't give my children any other type of step father than the kind you two had. Nothing less. We're better on our own otherwise. Brew There are good step dads out there.

WickedWax · 10/08/2015 11:59

I actually don't think he should be contributing to your mortgage, and if he's covering half the utilities plus some extra for wear and tear/upkeep on your house, then fair enough. It sounds like the more you both discuss this, the more it reinforces your views - yours that he's an unreasonable tightwad, his that you're looking for him to sub you.

BUT, this guy is bringing home approximately 4k each month and you're fretting over who pays for family meals out, trips to the cinema, etc.

He feels you're an emotionally blackmailing gold-digger (your words), there is no mention of love or any good points, except where you backtracked a bit and said but he's kind, he does all the cooking, blah, blah.

Your friends don't much like him by the sounds of it, and his friends don't particularly like you either. Says it all really - about the impression you each give of the other to your friends.

There's nothing to salvage here.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 12:00

Btw do you see the irony of him encouraging you to save, while getting you into 25 grand of extra debt?

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 12:01

Possibly we would both go part time.

I agree I'm living beyond my means. The plan is to do so for another two years, then once DD has done GCSEs, she can move schools. I'm also subsidising my mother (who is now about to go into a care home) after years of her helping me out financially. I have kept my head above water this long, and can do so for another two years.

OP posts:
Floralnomad · 10/08/2015 12:01

skiptonlass has my opinions summed up , especially the last paragraph . Please think about your current dc and how this could end up for her .

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 12:02

yes, and his big fear is that you'll drag him in to debt Confused

I'd end it telling him "i can't afford you. and even if I could, I'm not happy''.

theredjellybean · 10/08/2015 12:03

I would also like to add ...he sounds dangerously controlling. Not physically controlling but certainly financially and possibly emotionally...not good news OP !

TheVeryThing · 10/08/2015 12:03

Whatever nit picking you do over finances, it's clear that this man is not approaching the relationship in a spirit of generosity.

What if you become ill, or can't work for some reason, will he resent every penny you cost him?

You sound lovely and pretty together, whatever you say about finances. You and your daughter really deserve someone who loves and cherishes, and wants the best for you both.

This man has no idea what it takes to create and raise a family, either emotionally or financially.

suzanneyeswecan · 10/08/2015 12:05

He must know that your desire to have a baby gives him a lot of leverage because you have invested time and energy into the relationship and you are running out of time

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 12:06

You sound like a really capable person and mother fraught. You've supported yourself and given your daughter the education you wanted her to have and you are a good daughter as well.

My psychotherapist made a comment to me that couples are often comprised of a giver and a taker. It 'works'. Two takers will split up both indignant! but one who is inclined to take and one who is inclined to give, that can rumble on for decades.

I only left when he'd taken everything. I'm not for a minute saying you'd be as foolish as I was. But it's like being chipped away at slowly. If you stay with this guy he'll end up part time, in your house, you'll be working to pay back the debt that is yours (he'll keep reminding you of that). He'll be snappy and irritable about baby mess etc... and when your dd wants a superdry hoodie he'll bitch and moan and make you feel like you set fire to £50