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At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 11:32

His behaviour actually comes from a terror of women and a fundamentally selfish nature. It's completely irrational to fear you dragging him into debt. That's simply how he sees relationship: a financial rather than emotional transaction.

He would be happy to move out because he doesn't really feel comfortable being in a relationship.

iamanintrovert · 10/08/2015 11:34

Sorry, you answered my question while I typed it.

BareGrylls · 10/08/2015 11:35

His miserliness will cast a dark cloud forever. Even if you resolve this you would spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder every time you spent some money. Is he worth that?

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:35

oh boy. he's keen for you to budget is he?

Honestly fraught I ended up having two children with a man like that. Twinklestein summed him up, the type of man who has a deep seated belief that women leech off men. (Even though I was run ragged doing everything, childcare, cooking, cleaning. He'd get home from work and put his feet up).

I know you work Fraught, but the attitudes aren't dissimilar, to women, to money.....

You don't need to have a reason that he can't argue with to end it. Whatever you say he'd argue with it, so you can end it because you don't feel like a team, you're not a unit, you're in competition, you feel at risk! You have to guard yourself, the deeds of your house, you're in debt, he still feels you owe him! omg, you can end a relationship because you're not happy. Just say that.

waitaminutenow · 10/08/2015 11:35

He doesn't want you to drag him into debt....yet essentially that's what he doing to you with the kitchen/remortgage!!??

LazyLouLou · 10/08/2015 11:35

His behaviour all stems from his terror of me dragging him into debt.

That, and the rest of your post, can be read as his behaviour stems from him seeing you as an irresponsible child who needs to be taught a lesson.

One question: on a weekly basis are you mostly happy or mostly bothered by his attitude to money?

Your answer to that might help you see what you are/are not getting from him that you need.

Ilovecrapcrafts · 10/08/2015 11:36

I'm going to be a bit kinder to him. I don't think he should pay you rent. You've both decided you don't want financial interests in each others properties for the time being. Fair enough.

The best solution is surely for you to rent your house out and rent a new fresh house together with everything split 50:50. Yes your DD will occupy a room but who cares, you both purchased 3 bed houses so no hassle there. You rent an equivilant 3 bed. Maybe you chuck in an extra £50 a week to cover DD food and electric plus personally pay her specific bills. Could you do that on a 6 month rental? Then review when the 6 Months is up?

He sounds just rubbish with money. No idea how to communicate, no ambition to do anything with it, just not interested. I agree there are men obsessed with the idea women are profiting from them. Usually dull miserly men. Give yourself 6 months to find out if you can live together.

badtime · 10/08/2015 11:36

OP, his behaviour does not stem from a terror of you dragging him into debt.

How could it? How could not begrudging your daughter some food drag him into debt? How could accepting that him living with you has cost you money drag him into debt?

His behaviour stems from him being stingy. Being careful with money does not make people act like that.

tribpot · 10/08/2015 11:36

I don't think the motive for moving to mine had anything to do with saving money. He has stacks of cash, but doesn't really invest it

Sorry, I don't see the relevance of how he manages his money to his decision to keep more of it (whether in his current account or elsewhere) by living off you.

There are no relationships where the money is earnt exactly equally. In my case, my DH is chronically ill so I have supported him since we married 10 years ago. That said, he owned properties outright before we met and so his prior income paid large chunks of our mortgage off. But with this guy, it isn't just what would happen if you had time off for a baby. It'll be everything. What if you got ill? What if you couldn't work for a year or even 10 like my DH? This guy is never going to 'subsidise' you through that. He just isn't interested in committing to a partnership in that sense. I suspect he's just too used to living alone and having his own way in everything.

By the way, when I was 7 my mum married someone who has never, in 35 years, made any distinction, whether emotional or financial, between me and my brother and his own children. He was paying twice as much maintenance for his kids as my mum was receiving from my dad and 'subsidised' us not only without complaint but without ever even considering that he should not do it.

WorktoLive · 10/08/2015 11:38

What is he planning to do with all this money he is saving up? Currently he is a high earner that doesn't seem to spend any money - is he wanting to retire early?

The food thing is weird too - in my experience most men eat at least twice as much as most women so 50/50 would be fair because he could well be eating the same as you and your DD combined.

There's a happy medium between being a spendthrift and a tightwad - can you make him see that it would be OK to spend a bit more and he wouldn't be at risk of destitution?

Who pays when we go for weekends out to see his friends or family? Who pays for petrol? Who pays for plants for the garden? Who pays for meals out as a family? Who pays for holidays?

Surely these are joint costs that come out of a joint pot that you both contribute to? Or is he saying he can do without these things so shouldn't be expected to pay for them?

Agree that it sounds like maternity leave would be a big issue especially if it means a much reduced income for you. There would also be childcare costs to think about. He should be paying at least 50/50 on all baby related costs, probably more as he earns more.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 11:38

£475 per month is cost of utilities, minus mortgage, divided by two, plus a bit extra. Original amount suggested by DP was £450. I had, prior to him moving in, envisaged splitting utility bills (inc. mortgage) down the middle (which would mean he would have paid £585, plus money towards food etc).

OP posts:
firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:39

plus, I am fundamentally a saver myself, but I'm generous! I saved a third of the deposit on a house after I walked away from a man like your P. I'd foolishly feathered somebody else's nest for years, and I had nothing to show for it. But I am generous. Savers can be generous. I'm a saver but not a tightwad.

WickedWax · 10/08/2015 11:39

You are absolutely fundamentally different when it comes to money - and I can't even see any scope for meeting in the middle.

Your outgoings minus the school fees, £1900 a month, seem awfully high - how much of that is stuff that he should be contributing to, such as gas, electric, council tax, etc, and how much of it is your stuff?

Why are you worrying about finding money at the end of the month for 'going out', or who pays for holidays? If you can't afford it, and he's not willing to pay, then you don't go out or go on holiday, that's simple.

What are the plans for when you have a baby? Who pays for childcare? How is the food bill split then?

Nah, this is never going to work out, sorry. FGS do not have a baby with this man.

abc73 · 10/08/2015 11:39

Whatever you do, you must sort this out before having a baby together, I think he doesn't have a clue about the true costs of having children.

WickedWax · 10/08/2015 11:40

Sorry, x post re utilities, etc.

MeganBacon · 10/08/2015 11:40

In living with you, he has to understand that he takes on a commitment to your DD as well as to you. You are a package. My DH has always treated my son (whose father equally has never contributed) as his own and it just couldn't work any other way.
What is the rental value of your house? He should be paying half of that to you as rent, because otherwise he is paying nothing for having a roof over his head and no-one on £85K lives for free. He should also pay half of all outgoings, irrespective of your dd. And this really is a bare minimum because he earns more than you to start off with and it wouldn't be unusual to expect him to pay a share equivalent to the proportion of household income he earns.
If he doesn't get this, he isn't committed to the relationship and it will never be right.
You are both well paid and should be able to sort it out - if you can't it's due to his unreasonable expectations and not due to overall shortage of cash.
You must stick to your guns here - I think he sounds very reluctant to be grown up about entering into a relationship with you. And basically just mean and that's a horrible thing in a partner.

abc73 · 10/08/2015 11:41

And he should be paying you rent, after all he gets it for his house!

butterflygirl15 · 10/08/2015 11:42

he is a freeloader - terror of debt, spending your £25K on a kitchen and paying a bit of the food bill. Are you really that desperate for a baby you will tolerate this awful behaviour?

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 11:42

Fraught, write out a version of lazylou's post and present it to him.

"This is why our arrangement doesn't work for me". And calmly repeat what you are saying.

I'd say the force with which he will defend the current status quo will tell you a lot. It'll tell you how reluctant he is to see your pov. What's more important to him, that you don't cost him anything or that you are happy?

You and this guy aren't a team. That alone would make me bail out.

You are wise not to put his name on the deeds. never ever do that. Sorry for bolding it. but think down the line, you have his baby. you're on maternity leave. he's making you feel like he's funding your ''lifestyle''. he tells you he''ll set up a standing order for an amount of money you could just about live on if you put his name on the deeds. ground down, with a newborn, you reluctantly agree.

Georgina1975 · 10/08/2015 11:43

Finances are a huge issue in any relationship. Basic financial incompatibility is very difficult to navigate IMO. At least the counselling might enable you both to see if this is the case.

BUT I think this is more than financial incompatibility. His attitude stinks to be honest.

On what planet does he think the descriptor "lodger" describe your situation!?!

FWIW Me and my partner worked out the household expenses and then split them according to income (I pay roughly 40% and he pays 60%). We review it once a year. When we first lived together he had three children and we had none together. I could not imagine suggesting the we split the household bills 5 ways - how completely awful. Children from a former relationship are family, not lodgers! What would happen if you had a child together. Would he/she gain significantly more in financial terms? How would that make your DC feel, and how would it impact on the relationship between the half-siblings?

Oh and it is (legally) my house. He has paid into major works though...but has be ask to be on the deeds etc. (the answer would be "no" anyway). If your DP is that bothered perhaps you can look into a "Living together agreement"? Please ensure that his property is part of any agreement too though.

Lastly, please DO NOT remortgage to pay back the £25,000 for the kitchen. Do not place yourself/DC in further debt and risk your home under these circumstances. IF you feel you REALLY must give something back (and I hope you do not) then limit it to the original budget of £15,000.

WaltzingWithHeiferlumps · 10/08/2015 11:43

I don't agree about the rent tbh. If he paid rent like a lodger, he should have a whole room to himself for his only use, like a lodger would.

He is stingy though.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 11:43

I don't personally think he should be contributing to a mortgage that he's not on, but if he were not your partner he'd be paying you rent. If he were living elsewhere he would either be paying rent or mortgage. So I don't see why he should get to live in your house rent free when his moving in has cost you income.

Ilovecrapcrafts · 10/08/2015 11:44

BUT he hasn't signed up to rent a house. He's signed up to share a house. I can absolutely see why he doesn't want to pay the OP rent to live in her house. That's why they should consider renting a new fresh house together.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 11:44

He plans to go part-time when we have children. His plan was to have enough in the bank to enable him to have DCs and work part-time.

OP posts:
Georgina1975 · 10/08/2015 11:45

should read "but has not asked to be on the deeds etc"