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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
suzannefollowmyvan · 15/08/2015 08:47

great link Kintsungi!

Jengnr · 15/08/2015 09:36

Why did he go through your bank statements with a fine tooth comb when he doesn't even look at his own?

If you have his baby is he going to pay you rent for your womb plus extra for the toll it would take on your body since sharing your body is a definite decrease on living space, not taking into account the lifestyle changes.

Now, doesn't that ^ sound ridiculous? Yet tthis is what he is doing to you.

If living in your home with you and your daughter is such a massive hit to his lifestyle why is he there? Don't like family life? Don't be in a family.

suzannefollowmyvan · 15/08/2015 09:52

it's a tactic isnt it
he lets her know that he is making a sacrifice for her so that she will feel beholden to him?

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 10:58

*13/08/2015 15:31 suzannefollowmyvan

how did he get to do so well in life with those handicaps??*

Rarely have I read anything as ignorant and offensive.

Kleinzeit · 15/08/2015 11:01

I have no clue if this guy has an ASC or not - I didn't especially think so but the OP mentioned it.

One other thing: I would really hate to be on the wrong side of a black-and-white-thinking Aspie lawyer who has anxiety going through the roof and doesn’t see other people’s perspectives. Especially not if we were financially entangled or living together. He wont be Mr Sensitive then. And as for the fall-out on anyone else, like DD or a baby

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 11:15

OP, I'd bet you anything anything anything he's on the Autistic Spectrum. Everything you have said reflects this. Everything.

I'll bet he has particular ways of doing things, various intractable "rules" some of which will have helped him and some of which will send you crackers.

I don't doubt he's a bright, intelligent lovely bloke BUT his view of the world will be utterly entirely different to yours. The previous poster who said about the %cost/benefit exercise he's done in his head is bang on I reckon.

He has a kind of money illusion - he thinks he's great with it because he can see it, yet has no real understanding of it. No amount of explaining will make any difference to him because for him the greatest benefit will be being able to see it when he goes to the cash point.

My aspie brother (successful IT manager) once went to stay with relatives in Australia. They're hospitable people, and as they offered to pay for things, he simply accepted and proudly announced on his return that he literally hadnt spent a penny. Shock it simply had not occurred to him to do otherwise. And he didn't get it when we pointed out how wrong that was.

My husband has autistic traits and insists we run our finances separately too. We've found an equilibrium BUT I wasn't his first relationship (OP that's v telling!) and his autism isn't very severe although lots of what you say sounds very familiar.

OP read and read and read about being in a relationship with high functioning autism. It can be done but it's incredibly hard and exhausting. Your chap probably won't have the emotion fluency to be anything like as manipulative as lots of posters suggest but that's not to say you won't end up miserable and tied up in knots.

PM me if you think it'll help.

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 11:27

*Is it possible that your DP ran a cost/benefit analysis in order to decide whether or not to move in with you? If so, the process might have gone like this (in a massively simplified form)...

Costs: loss of privacy (33%), loss of space (33%), bad kitchen (33%) = 99.9%
Benefits: can rent out flat (40%), get to live with DP (50%) = 90%

So what he has then done is change the results by encouraging you to get a new kitchen. In his eyes, then, the decision to move in with you makes sense.

The problem here could be that he assumes you went through the same c/b analysis before asking him/agreeing to let him move in with you -- because this kind of process is probably how he navigates the world. He probably thinks you came to your decision based on your own criteria, just like he did.

And this is why he thinks his finances are irrelevant to the discussion because he cannot see why you would include them in your criteria when you made your decision about him moving in as your finances did not play into his c/b analysis (and if they did, that makes you a gold-digger, iyswim). From this, he can't understand why they have become an issue now.*

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 11:33

Try this site OP

www.different-together.co.uk

Twinklestein · 15/08/2015 11:48

Asperger's does not make people tight though. Rigid, black and white, non-empathetic, certainly. They may try to control their own environment, have strict routines, but that doesn't necessarily run to trying to control other people's behaviour.

A friends of mine's husband is an Aspie who took on her two children from her previous marriage, as well as having two of their own. Merging finances, paying for his step-children, was never an issue, he treats them like his own.

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 11:51

Well quite - one size of autism doesn't fit all. And from the OP's chap's point of view, he's just shelled out £25k on a kitchen and HASN'T asked for it back. The OP wants to pay him so she's not beholden.

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 11:54

Thinking of my bro again - he bought a new car, cash. Brand new, straight off the forecourt. Depreciation was explained to him endlessly, but as far as he was concerned that didn't make sense because anything that was just a bit older with less depreciation "wasn't worth it because it's not new." V black and white thinking. Bro isn't dim either. V v scarily intelligent in some ways.

Twinklestein · 15/08/2015 11:56

And this is why he thinks his finances are irrelevant to the discussion because he cannot see why you would include them in your criteria when you made your decision about him moving in as your finances did not play into his c/b analysis (and if they did, that makes you a gold-digger, iyswim). From this, he can't understand why they have become an issue now.

Of course he thinks his finances figured in her decision to get together and of course her finances factored in his own 'c/b analysis', that's precisely why he's accusing her of using him as a gravy train.

And let's be clear he's said his finances are irrelevant because he doesn't want her to find out the extent to which he is profiting from living with her.

Galvanised · 15/08/2015 11:57

If As is present, he might not feel that he is being tight. He probably thinks he's sensible. His routine may very well be to hoard money (familiar to me!). That might be the thing that keeps his anxiety at a minimum.
Apart from that - no two people with AS are the same.

Galvanised · 15/08/2015 12:02

the lacking empathy thing is often just wrong too - in the way it's commonly described.
My child inappropriately feels empathy. Sometimes not at all, and other times so much it's overwhelming for him. Of course sometimes he gets it just right.

wifeofaspiechap · 15/08/2015 12:05

YY Galvanised!

More of the (many) ASDs in my life... DH's best man. Head of IT (there's a theme there isn't thereWink?) for a multinational. We went for drinks before our wedding and Best Man says about a lads holiday the following year. I said that might not happen as we were planning babies pretty soon and he looked disgusted and took DH to one side and said "she can take everything you know, once they've had your kid!" DH pissed himself laughing and pointed out that we had been together eons, is supported HIM through his professional studies, and anyway I would be his wife and that's what mums and dads and husbands and wives do. But BM didn't really get it. He's another one that calculates to the penny, has only ever had one girlfriend who he called "my girlfriend" without fail as she was a function, not a person, and is filthy rich and single. On the face of it he's a fine catch, but lovely chap that he is, he's wired up differently.

Twinklestein · 15/08/2015 12:29

It's true one size ASD doesn't fit all, but equally ASD is not responsible for all characteristics when present.

Hasn't asked for the kitchen money back? They've set up a legal contract that the OP will pay it back if they split up.

When she asked how much his salary was, and to compare his current outgoings with those when he was living alone, a literal-minded Aspie would have just given her all the facts and figures.

We know he knows how much he saves per month, we know he knows how much his utilities are, because he compared what he was spending in heating and internet with what she does. He is simply trying to avoid admitting that he his financially advantaged by moving in.

Galvanised · 15/08/2015 12:52

I suppose I just see that it can be possible that this person isn't abusive, despite being quite rubbish in this situation. The OP genuinely seems to think he has really good points.
the things that would concern me are the OP feeling uneasy/afraid of setting off her partner wrt wasting food/daughters snacking habits.
These are things that can severely impact on the enjoyment of life. She should feel comfortable in her own home, and so should her daughter.
Some sort of changes need to be made here. The OP can only change the way she deals with this.
Pulling him up on it every time she feels uncomfortable and giving him an opportunity to take her feelings into consideration.
having more discussions about things that are troubling her - and not ignoring things.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 15/08/2015 12:59

Maybe this is too simplistic, but if he is getting on brilliantly with the dd and treating the OP like crap, maybe he is angling to have his baby with the dd as soon as she is of age.
Would that be enough incentive to kick his arse out? All the financial hoo-ha is a distraction tactic along the lines of the sick system described in the link.

Trills · 15/08/2015 13:24

It sounds as if life with him would be miserable.

A pot of mango or a diet coke is not a waste of money - in return for your money you are getting enjoyment.

Twinklestein · 15/08/2015 14:14

Of course he has some good qualities or they wouldn't be together.

But some women try to come up with excuses as to why a man is not as much of an arsehole as he seems: he's ASD, has a personality disorder, had a bad childhood, doesn't know what he's doing...

I'm not saying he's not ASD, I wouldn't be so foolish as to attempt to diagnose someone over the internet. But it's a developmental disorder not the sole determinant of every single personality trait and life choice.

Whatever the cause the outcome in this case is nigh impossible to deal with.

FraughtFinances · 15/08/2015 20:07

I'm not ignoring this thread or not 'bothering' to reply. Have been out today looking at care homes for my mother who has dementia and being totally overwhelmed and depressed about the prospect of her moving to one. I have a splitting headache, I still haven't had a full night's sleep for nearly 10 days and can't stop crying. So apologies for the pity party but I feel pretty crap.

I think wifeofaspiechap has the best analysis of the situation so far, in that it seems most akin to how things really are. DP really isn't manipulative in the way that people are making him out to be.

As I mentioned before, there are a number of other things going on at present, all fairly stressful. I do appreciate everyone's time and comments and don't want to appear to be ignoring the issues or to be ungrateful. I don't know how much more I will be posting on this thread as I don't want it to drag on and frankly it's becoming increasingly overwhelming.

I'm not a pushover and I'm certainly not throwing caution to the wind in a bid to have a baby. I wouldn't honestly mind if I didn't have another child. It really isn't being driven by my biological clock.

So going to take things one step at a time. Finances are being discussed and further ideas and compromises mooted. Counselling might help; I appreciate it might not. DD is fine. Going to have a bath now and try and get some sleep.

OP posts:
venetiaswirl · 15/08/2015 21:28

Dear FF,
I suspect that you regret starting this thread Smile
Maybe take some time and when you're feeling up to it, re-read your posts and the responses. I spent a number of years with a grade 1 twat - I adored him - and my friends (and daughter who was a bit older than yours !) were very gentle with me as they could see that I was besotted with this idiot.
I couldn't tell you now (2 years down the line separated from him) why it was that a mature and intelligent woman such as me got involved with such a waste of space - but I did.....
NOW I can look back with a shiver of horror at what I have escaped - I dodged a bullet as they say!! But at the time, I was enmeshed, full of excuses and there was no way that I would confront the reality of what he was really like. I am so glad that we are no longer together - he really was a bad choice but at the time I was caught up in the romance and the fear that I would end up alone. Well, I am now alone, but it is infinitely better than being caught up in a relationship with a selfish and thoughtless man who really couldn't love or care for me as I did for him.
A hard lesson to learn but I had to understand this for myself.
I hope that you get there before it is too late. Flowers

MagalyMaman · 15/08/2015 23:05

It doesn't really matter if he has asperger's or not. (My x had it I believe).

What mattered in the end was that he was resolutely determined to cling on to situations that suited his needs at the expense of mine. the reason for his intransigence if that is the right word, didn't improve my lot.

I left him, he claims he cannot understand why I left. And yet, I've flourished since I left him. Job, house, learning to drive. HAPPINESS... all the things I didnt have with him.

MagalyMaman · 15/08/2015 23:06

ps, it sounds like you're having a tough time at the moment. Lot on your plate. Brew

Kleinzeit · 16/08/2015 09:12

I’m glad you’re still reading ff. It must be very hard to read just how bad other people think this is. I don’t think you’re a pushover. I do think you are at a very vulnerable point emotionally. Your mother used to be your support and now she is going into care. My own mother had to go into care… You need a man who is strong in all aspects of his love for you. Only he isn’t that man. Enough evidence is in your first post.

You can lie awake beside DP worrying about money and he has no feeling for you and no urge to help you. This is not a wish to maintain boundaries and keep finance separate – he is willing to tangle you up in a loan to buy the kitchen that he wants. The only feeling he shows is to get angry at you for putting yourself in this position. This is a fundamental flaw, either in his ability to care for you or in his ability to care for anyone. He’s like a plate with a pretty pattern and a huge crack – you are trying to see the pattern and hoping the crack doesn’t mean what it must mean.

Your DD already has a father who is out of her life and who doesn’t think she is worth spending his money on. Now you want to give her a stepfather who didn’t think she is worth spending his money on - not everyday and not on the things she likes – and who told you he didn’t think you should have had her. Instead of feeling able to tiger up and show this man the door her mother is trying to reason with him and change his mind and find explanations for why he feels this way. And she adores him. That doesn’t sound fine. What is DD learning about her worth to the men she loves and the men she should be able to rely on?

OK, so what’s keeping you in this relationship isn’t baby-brain. You’ve mentioned feelings of failure at ending another relationship. Could it also be grief? Flowers

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