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Relationships

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At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
averythinline · 13/08/2015 12:42

He offered to up to £675 a month! That's big of him sounds like he's on bargain hunt....seriously why 675 why not £700 why not 650 ....why not let's add up functional cost of house/food and put in pot any leftovers split/saved for holidays ...did this when I house shared years ago and we put in 1000£ each then, all bills and I mean all bills/food came out of that account.. That was more than 10years ago.....you couldn't get a house share for 675 pcm the Hounslow zone 5 now so this is just getting more and more ridiculous...

He earns more than 7000 a month even after tax etc say 5k this is meanness on a wopping scale...anxiety over money is one thing I'm not sure this is that and please don't ascribe to autism ...it really is not just someone being fixed in their views...

please don't have a baby without sorting this out before....fancy justifying pampers over value nappies and would private school be allowed if that's what you want ?...

Zucker · 13/08/2015 12:42

One thing to ponder OP.

After you have your baby with him, how will you pay your way while on maternity leave and god forbid you want to take any extra time off after the birth?

How does he foresee you split the baby needs finances?

Will the calculations for food just get bigger, everything divided by 4 and you paying 2.5 and him 1.5 the costs. Obviously this would be fair, in his mind, as baby is half yours.

It just gets to the point where his argument is ridiculous and nI hope you think twice, three times before having a child with him.

£675 is such an odd number to arrive at as a new payment, I agree with the poster that dais that upthread, Where's the kindness, an extra £25 per month, between people who love? each other is hardly subsidising you, is it?

ImperialBlether · 13/08/2015 12:46

How come he doesn't know how much he takes home but he knows how much you do?

How come he goes through spreadsheets of your incomings and outgoings and not of his own?

How can you bear to live like this?

YonicScrewdriver · 13/08/2015 12:49

We don't really budget, that doesn't strike me as unusual. But neither would we look askance at diet cokes and mango.

antimatter · 13/08/2015 12:49

Zucker - I asked the same question about finances when OP may be on maternity.
They haven't discussed it yet I bet!

I wonder why.
Him lying that he doesn't know about his finances yet knows he would be able to pay 675 pm - is that a sign of a good lawyer logic or what.

I wish my expenses were 675 for all costs I myself create.

I don't know what OP thinks she wants to fight for to be with this man. Perhaps she is a masochist?

QuiteLikely5 · 13/08/2015 13:11

Op you can't actually afford to have a baby with this man have you realised that?

Listen to your gut instinct. He isn't a bad person, we know you love him but this is going to cause major problems for you in the future.

Hindsight really isn't a wonderful thing, foresight is though Grin

Melonfool · 13/08/2015 13:13

Well, the £675 isn't for 'all costs' is it?

Fwiw, he probably takes home something like £4,700.

I pay £1k into our joint account. dp pays more as he pays the mortgage (because I paid for my share of the house so only he needs to pay for his share). From what we both put in, we save £1kpm.

So, our expenses are c£1200, without the mortgage, for us two and dss.

In theory, if we didn't feel the need to save, we could each pay £600pm (and him pay the mortgage). This is pretty similar to the Op's situation.

But that is by no means 'all my costs'. I have to pay for myself for: social life, my own holidays if I want them with mates, gifts, clothes, make up, haircuts, car tax/ins/service/MOT/fuel, other travel, exercise related stuff, kit, IT/phone/laptop, fripperies (mango...) etc.

I always reckon I could live on £1,500pm - £1k to the JA, £500 for me. That is my base savings I keep in case I am out of work, x3 for 3 months.

But I probably spend £1kpm, so it's £2k while I am working. And I save the rest.

Cloudhowe63 · 13/08/2015 13:31

Hi OP. Sorry I had to post and run yesterday.
I agree with you that this needs to be tackled at its root. Finances change. How flexible you both are and how you communicate and plan for change needs to be at the centre of this.
FWIW, I think you and DP are coming to this from opposite directions. You have managed your household, including finances, successfully for years. It is second nature for you to put another human being (DD) at the forefront of every single decision. You have done this without the input of your ex. You are well-practised in running your own household and it is difficult to share this.
Also, you have more to lose. You cannot risk your DD's security if those decisions don't take everyone's needs into account - and you are her advocate as well as your own.
Your DP has really just had to manage himself. He is also used to being 'in charge'. He needs to appreciate your success and that your choices have been different to his for good reason. IMO you are financially much more savvy.

There needs to be compromise, openness, respect and much flexibility if this is to work. I hope you find an outcome you can live peacefully with. As I said earlier, my situation was very similar. I couldn't square the circle, but am on good terms with my ex. If you find the answer, please post.

RandomFriend · 13/08/2015 13:34

FF, your latest update does make it sound as though the root of the problem is that your DP is not at all good with money, rather than financially abusive. Perhaps what he needs rather than counselling is some financial advice on how to manage his finances, including a review of what it would be reasonable to pay you. A chat for him with a financial advisor would be useful, free and quick to arrange. It might even get him some interest on a current account and help him work out whether to pay off a part of his mortgage.

He's offered to up the amount per month to £675 and split other stuff 50:50. That sounds like a good start. With such an increase, your finances will look much better and your bottom line healthier. That alone will mean you are not so worried about money on a day-to-day basis.

I don't want to call time on things yet.

If you know that you are going to call time sometime, better sooner rather than later.

Not because of the horrendous hassle that will be involved if DP moves out (and which would necessitate me buying a whole load of cutlery, crockery etc since mine ended up going to charity when we merged household goods).

Absolutely. You can easily get some cheap cutlery and crockery from a charity shop or IKEA.

It still doesn't get to the crux of the issue, which is that he sees the change in lifestyle of moving in with you as a disadvantage to be compensated by reduced outgoings. He should view it as a positive change.

Needaninsight · 13/08/2015 13:41

Hmm.This is not a partnership.

I sort of see his point though. How on earth do you have £3k debt and no savings when you earn £52k a year??!

However. I would never get into a serious relationship with anyone who wouldn't share completely what they had with me.

I've never understood these woman who don't know what their husband earns/have to pay for childcare out of their wages alone/husband has more 'free' money than they do etc etc.

Your total household income should be your income. ALL necessary expenses should come out of that (and if he takes you on, he takes your daughter on) and then fine, split 50/50 what's left.

Both of you sound like you have major issues with money. Both weird!!!

stepsharp · 13/08/2015 13:52

I can't make sense of any of it now.

He sounds like a different person to the one you described in your OP, one of life's innocents as opposed to a tight fisted manipulator.

Perhaps you both get something out of these never ending "discussions", are you both competitive, and just want to win perhaps? Your careers might suggest this.

QuiteLikely5 · 13/08/2015 14:03

Also he watches what you spend and comments yet knows nothing about his own finances? Really?

I don't believe that for a minute!

Twinklestein · 13/08/2015 14:29

An innocent who ended up being controlling, manipulative and disrespectful by.. what.. mistake?

magoria · 13/08/2015 14:47

Does someone really not know what their take home salary is?

Twinklestein · 13/08/2015 14:59

Of course he knows what his salary is. He also knows what he saves every month.

But he doesn't seem to keep a close eye on his spending on the evidence of the windows, kitchen, coats and the sum sitting uninvested in his CA.

suzannefollowmyvan · 13/08/2015 15:30

I suspect DP may be on the AS spectrum. He has anxiety going through the roof, finds it very difficult to understand people and their perspectives, takes a very black and white view of everything and is bewildered by much of the world

but...but
he's a lawyer who pulls in 85K Confused

suzannefollowmyvan · 13/08/2015 15:31

how did he get to do so well in life with those handicaps??

Allalonenow · 13/08/2015 15:41

The two pictures that you paint of him OP contradict each other.

Unable to track his own salary yet following your income closely, doesn't know how much he has in savings but reluctant to buy a sliced mango.

I think that his claimed lack of knowledge about his own finances, is so that he doesn't have to answer any detailed questions, when it would become clear just how unequal your "partnership" really is.
Also, he must be aware how frustrating his attitude is for you, and he is hoping that you will just capitulate and leave things unchanged, and to his own advantage.

He is cleverly manipulating you, and is a bully, using money to keep you in your place.

And to back track a little, he mentioned he had been disadvantaged when moving in with you, less space etc? Heaven help him then with a small baby/toddler in the house too, they generate masses of clutter, he will have even less space.

Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 13/08/2015 15:48

OP I think you are having the wool pulled here. How convenient that he doesn't know a thing about his own finances when questioned, and yet he knows all about yours.

Wake up woman.

Previous posters have covered the thing with your DD, she clearly knows far too much about what is going on with your relationship, which is massively unhealthy. Especially when the feelings are so clearly one-sided.

sanityforlunch · 13/08/2015 15:49

He doesn't know his take home pay but you say in your op that he saves £4000 a month? You are seriously kidding yourself op.

You have completely backtracked during this thread and are now painting a very different picture of him. Clever lawyer earning £85k who has tens of thousands in savings versus a man who doesn't know anything about his finances and is 'bewildered by the world.'

What kind of lawyer 'finds it difficult to understand people and their perspectives?' I would have thought an fundamental skill of a lawyer was being able to understand things from their client's point of view.

Anyway, after 24 pages, I'm out now.

suzannefollowmyvan · 13/08/2015 16:01

I would have thought an fundamental skill of a lawyer was being able to understand things from their client's point of view

indeed, being a lawyer is surely all about putting a case, spinning things and outwitting the opponent?

To be successful you'd surely need a highly sophisticated theory of mind, the ability to think several moves ahead to know what your opponent will do before she knows herself?

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 13/08/2015 16:05

Odd he doesn't want to feel used by a gold digger, but happy for you to feel those things.

Skiptonlass · 13/08/2015 16:09

You're being dangerously naive.

That feeling you have of not wanting to go home because of the atmosphere? That feeling like you're going mad?

That's your instinct talking. Listen to it.

This man will ruin your life. And damage your daughter. He's a lawyer capable of bringing in 85k. Yes, he may well have some sort of foot on the spectrum, but that's doesn't mean he's some innocent little naïf. He's stonewalling on his financial situation. Of course he knows how much he gets each month. Of course he knows. The idea of him being a little innocent bewildered by the big bad world would be laughable if there wasn't so much at stake.

He will bleed you dry, financially and emotionally. He may even take your house. Once you're safely knocked up with a baby, he'll really start. You're heading for mad wife in the attic territory. Five years time you'll be back here a broken shell, with him holding all the assets and you a shadow of your former self. he will break you

hellsbellsmelons · 13/08/2015 16:21

I don't think you should make a snap decision.
You should ask him to move back into his own house.
You should re-instate a lodger at your house.
You can do counselling and see if there is ever going to be a resolution to all of this.
I seriously doubt it.
But give counselling a go but while you are living apart and take it from there.

songbird · 13/08/2015 16:49

Frankly, I've no understanding whatsoever of how anyone can just know there is enough money.

Because he's a tightwad earning £85K Confused