At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

[Fraughtfinances]

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

I know someone very much like this. Rolling in it due to saving and saving. Watching the pennies but prepared to spend thousands on private healthcare. Only eating the value range from the supermarket, not going out for meals as he sees it as a waste of money yet not very canny re property/investing his money.

He also had never lived with anyone until late in life and was vocal about the fact that he didn't want a high maintenance girlfriend who would be interested in his money.

He eventually chose a single parent with a teenage daughter.

but Fraughtfinances you do know what its like live with someone, good or bad, and your expectations of what constitutes a fair living arrangement are right. They are reasonable.

If your DP is serious he has to suck it up and learn bloody fast that splitting things down the middle and you both supporting DD regardless is the way to do it right. His lack of experience screams so loud of a controlling man.

That doesn't mean you get access to his poorly managed savings, which he clearly believes, but you both pay and equal share into a home you will share. Its reasonable and an adult way to do it.

I was resisting adding such personal details.
I was raised with a man like this. I wasn't his, from the outset he refused to pay a share of anything I needed (siblings he paid it all because they were his) this meant my granddad forked out so I could be treated the same. I didn't get any CSA from my biological father either. I knew right from the start I was treated differently this escalated to full on abuse. From buying all his children sweets to missing me out to physical violence. It escalated over the years from the petty much like your mango! to bloody noses and many bruises. I'll make it clear that I am in no way suggesting your DP will go that far. It does take a very 'special' kind of man to do that to a child but From the few things you have said I am seeing so so many similarities with my own step-father. With the controlling behaviour and you feeling the 'atmosphere' when its not quite right. He too would complain that money was wasted when it wasn't spent on his needs. He was also particularly needy with my mother. She revealed he was very full on in the bedroom and demanded an awful lot of sex and wasn't happy if he didn't get it but wasn't very cuddly in the loving sense. It was all or nothing with him.

again, I'm not saying your DP will do this. My experience is extreme but not unusual sadly. I am just seeing so so many redflags and that's from me, a child raised with a controlling man who refused to contribute to me or my education. You need to take a massive step back from this and assess it properly on your own. Preferably with him in his own place.

sounds like it's one rule for Mr Miser (my outgoings are not relevant) and another rule for the OP (I can criticise every penny that you spend)

you try and have a discussion and he sabotages it by refusing to give necessary information.

The fact that he refuses to tell you suggests he knows that if he does tell you, if he plays fair, the game is up and he will no longer be able to maintain that he has taken a hit in moving in with you.

Ergo there will be no reason for you to feel beholden to him because it will be obvious exactly who is doing who a favour.

They may still have warned him against gold digging women though!

When we met my husband had already bought a house, when we decided to get married we sold it and bought another one together. No pre nup, no protecting his deposit from the profit on his house. Each property we've owned since has been joint.

Given that your assets are higher than his, more equity etc, and you earn less, doesn't that mean you are doing better financially and supporting DD and your mother?

Feeling like you're going mad is normal when you're getting to the truth of the matter. Keep going FF... Keep digging, keep questioning and don't be shut down by his insistence that matters are 'irrelevant'. As one astute poster said, how can he not know what this is costing him when he pays such close attention to his finances with spreadsheets?! His insistence on describing these vital facts as irrelevant is him telling you he cannot and will not play fair. You don't want a man like that. He will diminish you. I've seen it happen with my aunt.

Please move him out, it needn't be the end of the relationship right now but you can't sort this out while you're under the same roof. If he threatens to go nuts because of the unplanned expenditure of temporary accommodation while he evicts his lodgers, remind him that this is for the good of the relationship. If he can't see that then he clearly values money more than he values you which is unacceptable, even if he has eroded your self esteem to make you think you're worth less than his nest egg.

Not of course to even mention the example you're unfortunately setting your DD by letting this continue... She's 15... don't even run the risk of her finding out or picking up on this. She needs to be able to look up to you and respect you, her strong, single-parent, litigator of a mother, but right now you're a doormat. Kids are unforgiving of weaknesses in their parents, please don't let this come between you.

I agree with others that it's ridiculous that he should pay nothing towards your housing. To me the obvious fair way to split the mortgage would be for you to pay the capital repayment portion and to split the interest portion between you. That way he is not contributing to your asset but he is contributing to your joint accommodation costs.

But if it were me I would just ask him to move out again. He sounds ungenerous and I don't think you have a happy future together.

I also think that there is a 'male pride' thing going on, when he refuses to contribute to the daughter's food I dont think it is the money per se, rather it is that fact that he cannot tolerate the idea of contributing to another man's child.
if he did he would feel that he had been duped/taken advantage of
That is why the fact that he doesnt make best use of his savings isnt a problem for him.

if you had a mutual child I would not trust him to treat them fairly and I think your own divided loyalties would make life very stressful.

There is surely no issue with him protecting what he has already built up, as the OP should do also.

The issue is around how they live now - he should not be financially better off by moving while the OP is not. There are economies of scale living together and these should be shared. If he is £500pm better off, he gives you £250pm more, then you are both £250pm better off, problem solved.

You split the food bills two ways because there are two adults, two incomes. You don't split it three because your daughter has no income.
Same with household costs generally.

But regardless of this financial stuff it doesn't sound like a very harmonious relationship.

I am quite frugal but I pay my fair share of our joint expenses and towards dss. I have savings, dp doesn't really.

I'm still a bit at a loss as to how the OP has utility bills of £900pm but a mortgage of only £220pm though?

OP, you haven't given us any of his good qualities?

I've read the whole thread. There is no doubt in my mind that he is shaping up to be controlling and financially and emotionally abusive.

I never say this lightly, but I think you should ask him to leave. Now. Permanently.

It will only get worse. There will be no 'lightbulb' moment for him. At his core, he's self-centred and mean. That won't change. Worse, he's attacking your DD (albeit subtly) - potentially very, very damaging for her.

Furthermore, he is manipulative and scheming. Several things point to this - most obviously the fact that while he's not prepared to pay for petty things, he readily foots the bill for a 25grand kitchen. Clearly, as a pp said, he's positioning himself to get a claim on the house. He's not stupid.

There's no 'mental block'. He knows what he's doing. It's called gaslighting. He'll run you ragged, OP.

A counsellor is not a financial advisor and I don't think they will be able to help your dp change his view of how you are bankrolling him. You seem to be holding out for the counselling but aren't you expecting more than a counsellor can deliver?
Utilities and food are a separate discussion - of course they should be 50/50 based on current outgoings - but this can be backed up by bills and should be easy to resolve. The core issue is that in renting out his own property he now no longer pays for the roof over his own head - you have bankrolled him to the value of this. You are worse off, he is better off. He has to pay you "rent" as well as 50% of utilities. How "rent" is defined is up to you but could be based on any or all of the following:
a) 50% of the current rental value of your property (should include the upgraded kitchen which he should not have the benefit of for nothing if you have paid him back the £25K)
b) The improvement in his finances due to the new arrangement
c) The deterioration in your finances due to the new arrangement
The last two don't offset set each other due to the difference in the amounts of equity you both have and the difference between the mortgage payments and the rental value of any property. But you can come to some understanding provided there is an understanding that he has to pay for the roof over his head like any other £85K earner.
Are you worried that he may be less keen on cohabiting once it becomes clear that he won't benefit financially from the arrangement? If so, there is no future with him anyway.
It's really not meant to be this difficult you know.

you don't need a counsellor to resolve this - just some common sense, self respect, dignity....and a firm mindset when you show him the door.

i don't think i'd want a baby in this situation. all the quibbling. terrible.

he sounds like he has hangups about generosity and maybe he wasn't shown generosity growing up. i don't mean giving presents, i mean with the small things which are actually much more important.

i don't think this is going to change. this is him and you have to like it or lump it. only you can decide if you can carry on this way.

This just all sounds utterly dreadful. When I moved in with DH he wanted to continue to shoulder the same expenses he had before I arrived, and any that were additional (council tax etc). Because he saw my arrival as an advantage, an absolute advantage. And that is love, not the backwards counting of beans.

And I might add that I tried to argue otherwise, and that in a reversal, the situation would have been identical - due to generosity of human spirit. Mango and television counting is not love. Do not have a baby with this man.

He might need a counsellor for his commitment issues!

And for absolute clarity - I am not saying the OP should be generous alone, but the DP, who is all gain and sums and sucking of the joy from life altogether.

I can hazard a guess as to why the op has household utility bills of £900 and a mortgage of £200. I have similar. My mortgage is a tracker for life, a tiny percentage above base rate. My utilities despite swapping whenever I can are through the roof.

OP, do not doubt yourself here. You are not mad. You have supported a daughter on your own, whilst hilding down a good job earning good money. You have a house with equity. You have done bloody well you know for yourself.
You are not dim, daft, bad with money or a gold digger. You are independent, working hard, astute and wise. Use those skills to do the right thing here for you and your dd.

If you want another baby, go it alone! You can, it will be far easier than parenthood with a deluded man.

I always feel that mean with money = mean spirited.
When I moved in with DH prior to marriage he continued to pay all bills and I took over the shopping bill and kept my car on the road. Married a year later....he immediately put my name onto the house deeds.
My income was much less than his.
Upon my retirement with only my state pension, we'd been married 10 years. (Together 20) DH opened a joint account and put into it £3k for me to use as and when necessary I.e. gifts etc. He knows I'm sensible and tops the account up now and again. If I want to use the account for something biggish I'd say to him beforehand...Just to be courteous.

We are not wealthy. DH has a decent pension.
We each had savings and these are invested jointly.
We each have our own current account.

The point I am making is that kindness and caring is part of everything. We each have stepchildren/children grown up and left home, they are all treated equally, as are all grandchildren.

This 'man' who dares to treat a child as not being his responsibility is not worth spending any time on. I'd run a mile.
Mean mean spirited !!

I also buy smaller house stuff if I feel like it.

Sorry...last sentence should have been deleted. Totally not relevant.

I think the fact that he hasn't been in long term relationships is key. He hasn't learnt to compromise. He can't see beyond his own perspective. I am similar to him in my opinions from what you've described OP. E
g. I agree pre prepared mango is an extravagance...it would upset me to buy it even though I'd spend a lot of money on windows and things to improve my home. It is about what you believe is 'worth' your money and there is no right or wrong. You do have to compromise in a relationship. I am only young and I can recall a number of financial compromises I made when my partner and I first moved in together. I can however understand some of his points as on paper you are fairly 'risky'. You pay for fees that you cannot afford. You have 3k worth of debt despite earning plenty. The relationship is relatively new. I think when you are in more of a stable financial position he will become less tight. It does sound as though he is now willing to compromise regarding your daughter which is good. Are you sticking to budgets and trying to spend less as your compromise?

Mangos are a right pain to cut up oneself, with the flesh clinging to the stone and skin. It's probably one of the few fruits that is more economic to buy pre prepared!

Pink, plenty of grandparents would help out with school fees and with just two years left to go, plenty of parents would extend their debt to keep paying those fees rather than disrupt their kids. Debt in itself isn't irresponsible - debt that you cannot service is.

Once the DD's education costs finish, OP will be saving £7200 per year on this; she can then pay down her current debt in a reasonable timescale.

Once DD's secondary school will finishes a large part of £7200 per year would go towards her University expenses.