BF using tinder to message both men/women

[upsidedownsmile]

Never posted before and this is going to be a long post so please be nice (but honest)

Two and a half years ago I met a guy and thought he was gay. He told me he was straight and explained about his past (which I feel I can't really go into) and explained it was firmly in the past and that he was straight. We got together and had a good relationship, but it was immature and we argued over silly things. We never broke up officially but he just cut me off and stopped speaking to me so I soon got the message. I went away to uni for the year and we met up and talked about what happened and got some closure.

About 6 weeks ago we met up again and had a series of serious conversations which helped us move on from things that were problematic for us in the past. Also, I think the time apart allowed us to grow up and we're no longer annoyed by the same petty things we were.

Everything was going really well, until a gay friend of mine found him on tinder. I've confronted him about it and he says he made the account when we weren't together and made it because he was lonely. I can't seem to get over the fact that he was a) using tinder and b) using it to find a guy. (Although he says he wasn't exclusively looking for a guy) There are other things that suggest to me he is attracted to men, his social media accounts seem to infer this all the time.

He has said he wants to work it out and sort it but I don't feel I can. I feel he lied to me about his sexuality because if he was looking for a man then he is either gay or bi-sexual. I have no problem with gay, or bi people, I have many friends who are and have never thought anything of it. However I know that I can't be with someone who is bi, especially in this situation where sexual activity with a man has previously taken place.

I don't really know what I'm hoping for. But I would appreciate hearing people's advice/opinions on it

Equally it's right to question why some heterosexual men see bisexual women as more desirable sexually. Someone's sexuality is not something that can be relevant to you unless they are a sexuality that excludes attraction to you. It's judgements about what else being bisexual means that people exclude bisexual people based on.

And doing that is desirable when choosing a sexual partner but if you refuse to even accept it is prejudiced what prevents it from being enacted in other areas of your life?

So you think that people who have preferences about who they will have sex with, are prejudiced, and this prejudice will express itself not just in not wanting to have sex with certain people, but in other interactions with them as well.

That's an interesting idea.

I would say that wanting to have sex with people brings about more obvious prejudiced and discriminatory behaviour - things like how women are treated by men (in class terms) the world over and for the whole of history.

It also throws up an interesting anomoly. I am heterosexual. Therefore, I am prejudiced against women, as I don't want to have sex with them. This prejudice, apparently, WILL come out in interactions with women that are not to do with having sex. However, I am also a feminist. I post on the feminism topic, and frequently get accused of being a man-hater. So the only conclusion, as far as I can see, is that I hate everyone.

That's a sunny thought for a Friday afternoon.

"Someone's sexuality is not something that can be relevant to you unless they are a sexuality that excludes attraction to you."

?

Is it not relevant whether someone's sexuality includes attraction to you? I mean, especially if you want to sleep with them

Sexuality is a different thing to sexual preference and no not all preferences are based on prejudice. Completely excluding bisexual people or entirely being turned off them when you discover their bisexuality is based on prejudiced beliefs about bisexual people because what about being bisexual is remotely damaging, threatening or deviant about being bisexual to justify it.

No it is relevant only when their sexuality excludes attraction to you. That's not the case with bisexual people.

Offred if you seriously think that people who have sexual preferences, act on those same preferences to the detriment of people they meet in non sexual situations, then you have a very different understanding of human sexuality to most people.

It is also not true that people will always want to have sex with those who "tick all their boxes" on paper. That's way too simplistic a way to look at it. There are all sorts of other interactions going on that we don't even understand.

No, I think many of them act on those prejudices in relation to bisexual people in other ways, such as making horrible sweeping judgements about bisexual people being bad feminists, unfaithful, confused, drama seekers on MN (and in other settings).

OK well I've not seen that.

To me it sounds like the point is, if you don't fuck x, y, z sort of person then you're a bigot, and women being told who to fuck is not new and is as old as the hills.

If a woman says she doesn't want to have sex with a man who has had sex with men, for example, then that is her right. There is no way you can say that she will eg on finding out that a man at work is bisexual, behave in a prejudiced bigoted manner towards him.

I really really think it's a bad idea to take ideas around discrimination and bigotry and prejudice and apply them to individual women when they are exercising their right which was very hard won and is still not intact even in the UK, to choose their own sexual partners.

No, it's not. I have said over and over that acting on prejudice to discriminate about who you share your body with is extremely important and desirable as a principle.

But if someone won't countenance being with a bisexual person because they believe bisexual people are (insert negative word) that's a prejudice which is unlikely to remain confined entirely within their own sexual choices. Not to mention that they are ridiculously unfair things to believe about bisexual people - the fact they should be entitled to discriminate in their sexual choices doesn't make their beliefs ok.

Just because women's sexual freedoms have been/are oppressed does not mean it is ok for women to oppress other people. No-one on here has ever argued that it is right to expect people who are prejudiced to sleep with someone they are prejudiced against in order to show they are not prejudiced. I don't understand why it is difficult and confusing for people or why the two things are being conflated.

And with regard to the OP it is very weird that being bisexual would be more noteworthy than being a cheater and a liar who uses lies to manipulate sex. That displays a particularly poor regard for people who happen to find both men and women attractive.

"Just because women's sexual freedoms have been/are oppressed does not mean it is ok for women to oppress other people."

Who on earth has said this

Telling people that they are bigoted if they don't want to have sex with people, x, y or z is not on. Of course their reasons they don't want to have sex with them may be based in racism, homophobia, biphobia, they may have all sorts of vile views but they may not. And if they do, say, not want to have sex with someone with X characteristic, it does NOT automatically mean that they will treat them badly or discriminate against them in other areas of contact.

I have heard people accused of bigotry if they don't want to have sex with certain types of people, it is used as a coercive tool, and some of the arguments on this thread sound very similar to that.

I have no fucking clue what is going on any more.

You dont seem to realise that people can just find the idea of their partner having had gay sex, offputting and unattractive without thinking bisexual people are slags/dirty/greedy/confused/whatever.
I can find the idea of my partner having recieved say... a tit wank... repulsive, it doesnt mean i think straight people are slags/dirty/deviant.
Finding a type of sex icky, is not a reflection on the person who partakes in it, and rejecting a person as a sexual partner because you know or find out that they have had and enjoyed whatever type of sex you find icky doesnt mean that you have a negative view of them. Sexual attraction is a strange, delicate thing. Little things change it. Ive met people i didnt find attractive, then they have made a joke, or smiled a certain way, or declared a love for a certain biscuit, or confided that they have a certain kink, and suddenly they are the sexiest person alive. And vice versa, a person can be so sexy it hurts, but the smallest thing can make you go "actually... no", without actually having a negative view of the person themselves. So why is it so unbeleivable that someone can just not want to fuck a man who has fucked a man, without thinking that man is ?

Christ, im bi, im fucking a man who has fucked a man, and i can see its possible.

So why is it a coercive tool when I say what you have said about the beliefs that inform the choice but not when you say it.

No-one has given a single example of someone not wanting to be with a person simply on the basis of their sexuality that is not based on prejudice. And I did not say all people would enact that prejudice outside their own sexual relationships but as was discussed earlier in the thread if you don't even recognise it as prejudice then you aren't likely to guard the rest of your life against it.

I don't agree that someone finding their partner having gay sex offputting and icky is not based on homophobia. We've had a lengthy discussion about it on here which has been full of conflation of the issues of bodily autonomy and prejudiced beliefs and semantics but not one time has anyone managed to come up with a single way thinking gay sex is icky is not homophobia or believing negative things about bisexual people which are not to do with them being bisexual is not prejudice.

On the other hand disliking being with bisexual people has been compared to disliking people who are into the aping of sexual violence (BDSM), the aping of bestiality (pony play) and the aping of paedophilia (pretending to be a baby) and other people have made judgements about bisexual people's fidelity, the credibility of their ethics etc.

I'm at a loss as to why more people don't find that objectionable.

Well you are doing your best to try and make others find it more objectionable aren't you offred?
Lois where is the ?

I found your comments about BDSM and role-play a bit odd TBH.

You reacted as if they were AWFUL and you were really upset about someone using them in an example, and you've done it again.

You talk about those things in a way that makes it sound like you are quite repulsed by them and the people who do them, which is out of step with your "love everyone or you're a bigot" schtick.

I wouldn't be with someone who was into BDSM or those types of role play as they aren't my thing, but as long as everyone's a freely consenting adult with all their faculties, so what, really.

Do you think there is something wrong with those practices? I don't get it.

If you don't want to have sex with someone because you have a prejudice that being bisexual means xyz bad thing it is highly unlikely that that belief about bisexual people is entirely and exclusively only enacted in your sex life though

Fucking hell I've heard it all now.

Unless we are all open to fucking everyone then it means they will be disadvantaged by us in our non-sexual relations because not being attracted is is seen as a social comment.

I'm out of here.

pocketsaviour, I was trying to own my reasons. I was trying to be open and honest about how I feel. You chose to call me pretentious. What's the point in 'owning my reasons' or being honest if people are just going to call me a liar. You took it one step further, you reduced my reasoning down to pretension. What is the point in me trying to speak to people or explain something on here? I don't mind you disagreeing with me. I don't mind your definition of prejudice being different to mine. I do mind you mocking me.

I don't think they are awful. Far from it, but there are several much more justifiable arguments about why someone would want to avoid someone who expresses a preference for those things. Including that injuring someone during BDSM is illegal because the law doesn't factor in consent when considering assault. People have much more of a reason to be generally upset about other people getting sexual pleasure from practices which imitate violence and injury and other non consensual behaviour than from bisexuality.

As a person who practices some of those things I quite understand that it is fair enough if people feel that sex play involving fantasy about non-consent or abuse is trivialising and objectionable because that is quite a reasonable and consistent view to have.

No, if you are not open to a relationship with someone because you have a prejudice about them then it's reasonable to conclude your prejudice extends beyond your sex life, because it's a belief you have.

Saul I appreciated that you were trying to be open and express how you felt as best you could.

And I don't think it's fair either that someone decided to take the piss out of you. You were talking in good faith and it was a mean-spirited response aimed at making you feel small.

I assume you are bisexual offred?