Happily single and no threat to your man so why do you fear me?

[notrocketscience]

Reading another poster on the difficulties of a single woman mixing with men through mutual interests; rambling, sport, photography, studying, evening classes...
It got me wondering, and I've suffered from this most of my life as my interests do not include spas and shopping or TV soaps. I like men and have had serious relationships but I also like them as friends. I'm currently a very happy single mother and with no intention of starting another relationship. I'm not a cheater and will not encourage any taken man. Yet other women do see me as a threat and it hurts because I'm really not and it does impact on my very limited social life. Is being a single woman such a bad thing that everyone automatically thinks I must be hanging out for the first man to offer me a quick one? (And don't get me started on the number of mm friends of the Ex who thought exactly that).

Some really interesting points being made on here. copabanana is right, there are widows who are incredibly lonely. As women statistically live longer than men this seems dreadful to me that there are sections of the population being socially excluded purely because they are no longer a couple. I have no idea if widowers feel the same.

Does this mean that there is pressure on all of us to find a mate just to fit in? Biologically, once a woman has her children and she is in a position to care for them, is this just a social pressure?

Reading some of these wise words is making me question how we can change society to be more inclusive. The poster who asked how many couples can honestly say they have new single friends is onto something.

Millionprammlies

I think you are getting a bit carried away with the idea of cosy couples abandoning single friends. Life is more complicated than that.
When I worked it was a commute into the city. All my friends worked there and we socialised after work. This all continued until I had a child. At that point it drifted.
It was no ones fault but it did. Some of them came to visit. I went to meet up with them but it was harder. Their lives continues along and I lost track of the gossip and the in joke, the pace and rhythm changed.
So I was left to make new friends locally. The people I met were mostly mothers. Inviting people over sometimes led to inviting a partner.

It's just logistics that friends are often other parents. It's not snubbing single people because I can't be arsed. I gave male and female single friends too.

But my loss of contact with my old single, childless friends was far more to do with my being harder work for them than the other way around.

But my loss of contact with my old single, childless friends was far more to do with my being harder work for them than the other way around.

Really? Are you sure about that? Did you keep inviting them or just assume that they weren't interested? Did you consistently ask your single friends to (eg) your children's birthday parties and celebrations?

I was never invited to Little Johnny's first birthday - even though I love children and would have loved to have a child to make a fuss over.

I then noticed how I was also never invited to (eg) Friend's Husband's Birthday Lunch ("we had 18 people including 6 children").

For the friends I retained, I ended up just seeing them one on one for a quick drink after work. This was entirely my doing and my work arranging it.

It was like there was this unspoken assumption that if there were (a) children or (b) couples, I wouldn't be interested.

I haven't really thought about this stuff for ages actually since I got married - but this thread is bringing it all back. It's hard being an older single woman.

I think we are talking about two separate things here Self. People in couples get into the habit of socialising with other couples, often the same small clique of couples to the exclusion of everyone else - including other couples often, not just single people. I think they just get complacent and in a cosy rut. They are more likely to want to chat about similar things, go to similar places and I think they just prefer the comfy dynamic of having other couples around them. Maybe they don't want to go to the bother of meeting a string of new 'Plus Ones' every time they have a dinner party or whatever, maybe they get uncomfortable or bored with hearing about their newly single friends' divorce traumas or whatever, maybe they have no interest in noisy pubs or clubs any more, or have less time and inclination to do outdoor/weekend activities and find that the lifestyle of single and/or childless people is often out of kilter with their own meaning they perceive that they have less in common than before. I dunno the reasons.

I just don't buy into this idea that all these partnered women are too frightened to include single women in things or to have any social interaction with their precious man in case she steals him. That just sounds like something single women tell themselves to feel better about being dropped or left out.

Oh yes. It's always the fault of the nasty big-headed single woman who is flirting around.

No of course not, not ALL or even most single that fit this description. In fact the type of woman I am talking about might not even be single. But as I said there is definitely a minority 'type' who always puts herself at the centre of groups of men and really courts attention or flirts outrageously while ignoring/dismissing the women while saying she feels more 'comfortable' with men. Funnily enough she's rarely un unglamorous sort of woman who likes doing typically 'blokey' things and has typically 'blokey' interests - she's usually a very feminine woman who just craves the attention of blokes, so the 'I have more in common with men' line is a bit disingenuous really.

Cheersmedea

Yes. I'm absolutely sure. What an odd thing to say - faintly accusatory. I'm sorry about your experiences but they are not true for me.

Lots of them came to early birthdays etc but it tailed off. I would never assume people wouldn't want to come because they were single any more than I assumed my male friends wouldn't.
I'm not blaming anyone -it's just what happened.
We had all travelled into the city so we were all long distances from each other. I wasn't physically there so I started to drop off invitations. I obviously missed all the spontaneous get together the groups of friends shifts. It can just happen.

My point was that relationships are often easiest if you have regular easy connections. I'm not sure that previous posts blaming 'cosy couples' for friendships cooling is entirely the case.

Isitme Yes you are partly right there as when going through a divorce your mind is focused on the emotional upheaval and I can understand married women not wanting to hear it all (again and again) and perhaps distancing themselves because it is uncomfortable listening. But this is temporary usually. Anyone who continues to berate their Ex long after his departure and things have settled down (hopefully, I know this is not always the case) is finding it difficult to readjust. Most of us are happy to get on with our lives and don't want to harp on with "how he done me wrong".

Cheers has nailed it in her posts. It is difficult being an older single woman. I'm not so sure it is as hard for men although I'm willing to be corrected on that assumption.
The question is why are we singletons so excluded? We are not all flirty, attention seeking bimbos. Some of us have brains, diverse interests, wit, opinions and like company of other intelligent people. Why do we need the security blanket of an OH just to be part of society?

And for what it's worth, some people from both sexes do see us as "available and desperate". The women tend to exclude and some of the more unscrupulous guys think we are fair game for a quick fumble.

What an odd thing to say - faintly accusatory.

Hardly odd! It was just a question - interesting you are so sensitive about it!! LOL.

It's a pretty common experience and people are often a bit self-deluded about this type of thing.

Oh, there's definitely a distrust of single women. Worse, if they dare to be attractive. And as CheersMedea says, also a generalised discomfort around having a single childless person around a bigger group. I definitely found this in my single 30s.

And no, I neither think I am ravishingly gorgeous, nor do I simply focus on Blokes.

I'm sorry if it sounded snippy.

It is true though that you question my first post and now make reference to people being deluded and 'so sensitive'

I'm not especially sensitive - it was a long time ago.
But my experience is just different to yours . Pretending I'm deluded because you have a different experience is just a bit daft.

I honestly don't seen any problems for single people. I've got lots of single friends and they\re never left out of anything why would they.

Perhaps it's more the company you keep rather than society as a whole.

Pretending I'm deluded because you have a different experience is just a bit daft.

Christ almighty - you are super sensitive. IT WAS JUST A QUESTION.

I wasn't saying you were deluded. I was explaining why I asked the question - because it is common to be self-deluded.

I am saying you are sensitive. Hair trigger sensitive I'd say!

Okay as a married woman would I be happy if my DH turned round and said ' oh, so and so is coming round tonight for a drink'. and she turned out to be a beautiful single lady? I would freak out. I have a very happy and stable marriage but that would set off every paranoia going.

Well, I'm not married but I like meeting new people. Especially new women friends. And if they're nice to look at, they're quite decorative around the place too.

I've got lots of single friends and they\re never left out of anything why would they.

Well... try reading some of the experiences of people here - including me before I got married.

Why? Because it's not socially acceptable for single women to develop new friendships with married men, because many women distrust a single woman and fear she will be destabilising if not to her marriage their social group, because people get used to socialising in couples etc etc.

I think a big part of this is the ages of the people involved and their social circles. If you are in your twenties and a professional, there a plenty of single people around - men and women - so married couples are more exceptional and will still have a very blended, predominantly singles filled social life. By the time you are mid to late 30s that demographic has changed and its all socialising in couples basically.

Luckily my friends aren't like this. We age from 20's to 40's, single, married, unmarried. No-one gives a toss.

No-one sees me as a threat I'm fifty and single and chat happily to friends husbands even when their wives aren't around [sob]. Their wives don;t seem to worry - the bitches - I'm over the hill

Some people don't actually invite singles to social events - yes I'm looking at you sister

Nah - not super sensitive. Probably argumentative sometimes.

I just think the 'cost couples dumping singles' is mostly bollocks.

I've got friends . Their marital status is unimportant.

I actually love shopping and going to a luxury spa. You can crack open a cold one with my dh anytime. He will spend hours droning talking about politics or American football if you would like.

Erm don't know how you came to that conclusion i was giving off the wrong vibes when i was new to the workplace and he was the one flirting with me and i didn't know he had a girl plus called him out on his behaviour when i found out.

My ohs ex was just that, his ex. My actions were perfectly justified you was not there were you so you cant say whether or not it was justified and yes i am classy. I'm also a stunner which is why i get jealous bitches trying to put me down but they just make themselves look like idiots and other females have also said this.

I have female friends and became friends of the manager who ran my local pub so know that situation doesn't happen to me all of the time though do feel free to read what you want into my situation as you sound just as jealous as the girl i belted to be honest. I don't think any women would be comfortable in their partners ex prying into their new relationship and trying to make a point.

I laugh at women who cant stand me i take it as a compliment to be honest because other women love my personality and are big enough to compliment me instead of having an insecurity complex when i'm around. Just because i know i'm attractive doesn't mean i need to be the centre of attention, i don't go out anymore so i don't know how you work that out.

Also i can sing and every stranger I've ever met comments on my voice so if i wanted to be the centre i'd just get up on karaoke :) Usually shuts women like you up.

When my first marriage broke down, I was a member of a large sports club, where most of the members were in couples. I made a point of pursuing friendships with the women in these couples; OK, so there was a fair amount of heightened sensitivity on my part, as an OW had been involved in my broken marriage, but as I honestly didn't want to step on anyone's toes or cause any problems (perceived or otherwise) I just thought that female friendship was a better way forward.

Life's complicated enough, without courting misunderstandings.

Sorry Petal, that wasn't for you, but the pp.

I think ten minutes on mumsnet will tell you that the OP is not wrong. Mumsnetters are supposed to be smarter than average! But even here, you see the same lazy prejudices thoughtlessly typed out by some posters. "Is she single OP?". As if that would explain it all.

Also a kind of lazy assumption or default assumption that slightly jars with me is that that all marriages are sacred unions to be revered no matter what. They're not. Half of them were mistakes, abusive, borne out of youth/lust, rumbling on through habit, financial dependency, but the reverence that is given to bad marriages because they are marriages can be ridiculous. BUT acknowledging that other people's bad marriages are nothing to envy doesn't mean that single women want others' mess!

So, OP, I hear you. I only want a thoroughly decent man who is very good company, honest, intelligent, respectful, good humoured.

But then, in sympathy with the lazy insecure thinkers, I think back to how much strength it took to leave my X nearly a decade ago. How I feared being single! How I had for some while derived some scant comfort from 'not being single at least' and I kind of get it. It's a very insecure mindset. And some people are insecure. They don't understand that some single women are independent.

They don’t understand that some single women are independent

Indeed. But conversely some single women will happily get their claws into a married man. I know my post may be tainted by my experience with an OW, but it does prove the point that you have to be a little bit careful sometimes …..

Don't delete this thread please notrocketscience
You've really struck a chord with a lot of posters even though this is not the usual script on mn.

Great posts from bettyberry, springydaffs, susanmichelson.

I have similar experiences. My friend tried to send her husband round to help me assemble bunk beds and even though I knew they were able to just simply help a friend, I didn't want anybody else to hear about it.

I accepted a lift once years ago from a husband, he was driving towards the station and it was raining and I was seen in his car and a rumour started.

I do think it's necessary to be very careful. I@m not gorgeous, I'm very average. I think this makes it worse because people might assume I'd be even more 'grateful' or something. NOt sure.

Then there was the guy who dispatched his wife to a spa for the day before asking me to meet up with him and their child...

I declined. Maybe it was innocent but I didn't want to be part of that dynamic.

Being single and being a couple does have a totally different dynamic all round. I can't imagine being part of a couple now. I think I'm beyond it.

I can equally see why people who are in couples wouldn't feel comfortable necessarily socialising with a single person that doesn't really get the couple thing.

It's like being into different sports or something. You might like one another but it does make an invisible barrier.