what do narcissists feel?

[afink]

I had a relationship with a classic narcissist over 10 years ago. I'd always known he was abusive, but it was only after reading threads on here and then researching online that I realised that he was a narcissist and that our relationship followed the classic idealise-devalue-discard cycle.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew what narcissists actually feel at the beginning of the relationship when they are being so full on and perfect. Do they genuinely think they are in love? I can't imagine someone pretending to feel those things, although I can imagine someone conning themselves into thinking they're in love and therefore behaving in a way that they think a person who is in love behaves. Anyone?

Oh my god Folk Girl, I remember that comment about leaving the room so she wouldnt have to see! Jesus. I have heard some sick stuff and that is right up there. You poor thing. Its just unspeakable cruelty, truly awful. I hope you believe that.

You're right as well about the confusion. My parents paid for my education, bought us tons of lovely clothes toys and books, took us on holiday and spent lots of time with us. They are also the reason behind my depression and temptation to self harm, my constant anxiety, my sister's eating disorder and my brothers rage and self destruction. It melts my brain trying to reconcile the two sides of their behaviour.

afink you are definitely onto something there. My H used to buy me cuddly toys and perfume, and I am definitely not a makeup or hearts and flowers kind of girl. It was not me at all. I wonder if it was something he thought he should do - living out his romance by the book, instead of genuinely wanting to do something for me.

For the past 5-6 years I didn't get anything for my birthday, apart from one year he bought me a jumper, it was itchy and not my style at all, and I returned it to the shop. He was annoyed about that for months afterwards and would bring it up in conversation.

But whenever he returned my gifts (which he frequently did, usually just to get a different size or something minor), it was because I am rubbish at buying presents apparently.

Also does anyone note extreme behaviour shifts with a narc? Lovely one minute and utterly callous the next?

Yes - this is the Jekyll and Hyde thing isn't it? I remember hearing the key in the door, H would walk in and I would be wondering what mood he would be in. If he was happy and smiley with the children I would be so relieved.

Other days he would not have a word to say to any of us all evening.

This thread is great because, as I have moved on now, I can talk about it with a clear head.

There were many signs I ignored so I do take some of the blame that I ended up with him. I can't even put it into words but I think I always knew deep down there was something not normal about him. I never completely felt myself. He was the first person that I think I changed who I was/how I acted when I was round him (maybe subconsciously). I probably always felt a bit on edge, always trying to please him/do/say the right thing. I have never felt like that before in a relationship. How the hell did I get caught up in that?

I remember sometimes I would look into his eyes and it was just so cold.

I don't know, I don't know if he was a narc or just a nasty shit, I suppose it doesn't matter.

gatewalker so are you saying that he knew we lived together as a couple and he knew we went through 2 rounds of IVF but he then denied all of that as it was in his nature to do so? In his mind that was perfectly acceptable?

Yes, that's what I'm saying, Morley.

To someone diagnosed as being a narcissist, no-one else exists in their own right; they exist purely as an extension of them - hence the name "narcissist": from the man who was transfixed by his own reflection. That, to them, is "love". That is the love they know. They're not lying when they say that they 'love you'. They are loving you as an extension of them.

If you behave in any way that defies this belief, the existential angst and annihilation of having lost a part of themselves is unbearable.

It is at this point of perceived loss that they will turn and fight to the death - psychologically speaking. When they are in this mode - when they are fully identified with themselves as the centre of their own experience - the utter destruction of the other who they perceive as having betrayed them (as they were betrayed originally in reality) is their only option for survival.

They are doing everything they can to safeguard their survival - because that's what it feels like. Without it, their ego would shatter and that, there, is the annihilation that they will do nearly anything to avoid. They know on a primal level exactly what that annihilation did to them in the past.

I write this not so anyone feels sorry for someone who is narcissistic, but to try and understand them better. To go back to my scorpion analogy: I love them for what they are; I would never pick one up and kiss it.

has anyone got an experience of a narc sibling?

Really interesting gatewalker you sound very knowledgeable!

In the 2 and 1/2 years since we split he has got married and had a baby! Maybe they will live happily ever after or maybe she will have a nasty shock one day

Like I said, I don't know whether he is a narc or not. I think I was desperate for a label at the time to try and make some sort of sense of it in my distressed state. There must be something wrong wit him as I don't think many people would otherwise be capable of doing the things he did.

Thanks for your insight

Sorry for the derail, but would anyone mind telling me whether they think I have narcissistic tendencies? I am trying to work out why I have ruined and ended all of my relationships, most particularly my marriage. Alot of the characteristics identified by those who have suffered at the hands of narcs ring bells with me, albeit to a less extreme extent and I am hoping I have tendencies towards narcissism rather than a personaliy disorder. Also, if I was a narc I wouldn't be able to reflect on my behaviour, right?!

1. Childhood: Both parents emotionally cold. No hugging or other physical affection and I wasn't told I was loved. I was mainly praised for being good at school. Sexual abuse from a female babysitter around the ages of 6-8. Don't recall telling my parents about it.

1. Emotions: I feel very uncomfortable discussing emotions and try to avoid it. My husband has described me as very 'cold'. I take a very logical approach to everything and can easily compartmentalise events, feelings, bits of my life. I.e. I had a termination at 23 weeks due to the baby having terrible health problems. I don't get emotional at all when I think or talk about this. Another example, I don't really miss my kids when I am away for work for a few days. I do love my kids, but when I am not with them I don't think about them that much.

1. Sex: really struggle with intimacy during sex. I can put on a show but dislike kissing, making eye contact, saying nice things to the other person during sex. I have had sex with alot of people just because I thought they expected it or I didn't want to let them down. I didn't fancy alot of them much at all, but I did like the attention they gave me before we had sex. I have had very little sex with my husband over the past six years (once or twice a year).

1. Idealisation: I spend hours fantasising about ideal future situations, to the detriment of focusing on my current issues/situation. This can include ideal relationships, an ideal home, me having an ideal body as a result of a perfect diet and exercise regime, the list goes on...

1. Perfectionism: I am a weird sort of perfectionist, I don't believe I can achieve perfectionism so I often don't even try?! I think it's because I don't want to risk being criticised.

1. Reaction to criticism: I massively struggle with this. My natural response to criticism is to get sulky, deny things, walk away from discussions.

1. Detachment: linked to lack of emotions I guess, I often feel like I am floating above situations or behind a pane of glass all the time not really feeling anything or understanding what other people are doing or talking about. I like spending time alone.

I've had PND and been on anti-depressants twice.

I want to put in place some things to deal with this stuff and I do plan to see a therapist when I can afford it. I want to have a good relationship with my daughters and have a partner who I truly love, can be emotionally close to and be physically intimate with (although I have hurt my husband and past partners so much that I wonder if I should just be single for the rest of my life!!).

I am very scared about posting this (fear of criticism- but don't hold back!). Thanks everyone!

Kracken I'm not sure it would be a good idea for anyone on here to try and 'diagnose' whether you have narcissitic tendancies. I genuinly mean that for your own good.

You say you are going to see a therapist when you can, I think that is a very good idea and much better than you speak to someone qualified to help you

All the best xx

I completely agree, morley.

I'd also echo that seeing a therapist could be both valuable and life-changing ... though, paradoxically, "waiting until you can afford" it frequently means waiting forever. There's never a good time, and there's seldom enough money. We put little value on our own (mental) health and well-being.

Kraken for what it's worth I just wanted to say that (ime) narcissists aren't capable of the level of self-reflection that you've shown you are.

Perhaps you would benefit from talking to someone about these issues but you're already far ahead that you can identify problems and want to do something about them. :)

Yes I would agree with that snap

I wasn't trying to be unhelpful kracken I know it must have taken a lot to type all that, I'd just hate you to hear something on hear that might not be quite right. I really think you would benefit from seeing someone and hope you are in a position to do so soon

xx

I am 2 years into a nasty divorce from a Narc,
and the word that keeps popping up in my head is "entitled".
He genuinely believes it is more important to pay off his overdraft than give maintenance to the children, as HE wants to get his finances sorted to buy a flat.
He genuinely believes I should sell the flat where I live, with our 2 small children, so he can take half the equity and buy himself something. I wouldn't qualify for another mortgage and would have to then rent, which is so much more than my repayments currently, so would have to leave the city we live in… which means changing kids schools etc.
He does not even flinch at that, as he feels it is HIS right to take the money and build a new life for himself.
I could go on and on, but it is all about them…
They do rewrite the past so at to try and get the reaction they want from whom they are with. I could tell who my ex was with by the way he spoke to me on the phone. When he was with his best friend, he would speak like super caring dad, asking about the kids etc. When he was with his girlfriend he would freak out at me calling me names and making it sound like I was being totally bitchy / unreasonable on the other end of the phone.

I have read often that is comes from not having their emotional needs met as a child.
In my ex's case this was sadly very true.

ssd Sadly, my brother and mother are very similar.

Am I right in thinking you have issues with your sister? (If not, sorry, if so, I'm not a stalker, just got a good memory - honest!! )

I do think it's important to not 'diagnose' or label these people as Narcissistic though. NPD is a personality disorder that can only be diagnosed by an expert following an assessment.

Not everyone who acts selfishly or cruelly is Narcisstic. Not everyone described or discussed on this thread will be. Not even my mother, necessarily. Some people are just self centred dicks!

I don't think 'narcs' do it deliberately. My mother became very distressed and very upset when she wasn't indulged. She also got The Rage. She was unpredictable and cruel. She controlled and she manipulated. But she constantly felt that she was the victim. She was terribly insecure and unhappy.

yes folkgirl, I dont want to go into it too much here but she is the most narcissistic person I know.

ssd

thanks

the thing that gets me most about my sister is her utter indifference to me, but I'm slowly learning here, thats because of what she is,not because I am less of a person for it.

Not a very nice man, but not necessarily Narcisstic.

I don't know if you will have known him well enough to know whether these behaviours were indicative of something else, or if he was just a common or garden shit of a man.

I don't feel comfortable with any of us diagnosing anyone on the basis of a shit relationship with a twat!

I suppose it's easier with family members because there's such a wealth of evidence, but even so...

Not every one who behaves badly in a relationship is narcissistic.

Completely agree with morley, it's such a pointless and dangerous thing to diagnose other people. I personally think that everybody has 'narcissistic' traits and nobody ever recognises them in themselves but seem to instantly see them in others. People are just people, complicated and simple, destructive and loving, a complex meld of many things.

I'm also agreeing with FolkGirl a little; I have a difficult relationship with my mum, some things in common with FolkGirl but I know my mum had a difficult relationship with her mum and I'm sure it goes back generations. My mum loves to diagnose, I won't, it just causes so much bad feeling and upset - and brushing under the carpet and denial. If I don't confront her, I don't have to deal with that aftermath.

It is her and not you.

And it doesn't necessarily make her a bad person. Just what she needs from you/other people is different from what you need.

Reconcilling those two things is hard.

Whether she is a true Narcissist, or not. It doesn't reflect on you.

I think my mother had a personality disorder of some kind. She also fits some of the BPD stuff. But NPD is what fits for me and helps me to understand it was her and not me, but I still don't feel comfortable using it as a label to describe her, rather as a tool to explain/understand her behaviour and its impact on me. If that makes sense.