what do narcissists feel?

[afink]

I had a relationship with a classic narcissist over 10 years ago. I'd always known he was abusive, but it was only after reading threads on here and then researching online that I realised that he was a narcissist and that our relationship followed the classic idealise-devalue-discard cycle.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew what narcissists actually feel at the beginning of the relationship when they are being so full on and perfect. Do they genuinely think they are in love? I can't imagine someone pretending to feel those things, although I can imagine someone conning themselves into thinking they're in love and therefore behaving in a way that they think a person who is in love behaves. Anyone?

No it's fine Lotta I didn't think you were being flippant, this is an interesting discussion.

Morley19 - I'd agree that sometimes that shift can be quick and that not all people who are in relationship with those with narcissistic traits are 'messed up'. But the chances increase if we had narcissistic parents, and/or we find that we consistently choose relationships with people who have these traits.

Morley19 - I think there's a distinction between something being unconscious and something being within a person's control.

To go back to the scorpion analogy - I'm sure the scorpion knows what it is doing, but to it, it's simply doing what is in its nature to do. It doesn't question it any more than I would question something that has become a part of me.

I think the lying is also part of the narc behaviour - to cover up their bad behaviour or any perceived failings at any cost.

When H grabbed me by the throat, I had scratches and nail marks on my throat. He insisted later he had grabbed me by the chin. If it wasn't for my children being present and seeing it all, I would have, over time, cone to accept his version of events as true. Some of it is calculated, and done so without remorse.

yep fair point gatewalker if someone has a pattern of ending up with narcs then yes it does also suggest that individual may have some 'issues'

I'm hoping mine will be my one and only experience!

I mean, a scorpion could stop stinging. But why would it?

I defo agree Namechanger, I think some of the behaviour must be calculated.

I think you have summed it up. My ex wanted to 'get rid' of his ex life. He didn't want to be seen as someone that had tried to have a child with someone else, that would have been 'baggage' to him which he had a big issue about.

'I think the lying is also part of the narc behaviour - to cover up their bad behaviour or any perceived failings at any cost'

My mother has done this so many times - one of us would get up the courage to confront her with 'but you did / said X', something we had seen with our own eyes. She would deny it until she was blue in the face. I think it was almost like a reflex response without any thought at all - I'm under pressure, I'm being accused of something, I have to find a way out and the easiest way is to deny it. With all of the attendant martyrdom and 'how could you' and tears and turning it all back on us. You almost start doubting your own sanity. Beyond exhausting. And totally pointless.

gatewalker so are you saying that he knew we lived together as a couple and he knew we went through 2 rounds of IVF but he then denied all of that as it was in his nature to do so? In his mind that was perfectly acceptable?

I'm not challenging anything you are saying (it sometimes sounds like that in writing doesn't it!) I'm genuinely interested in others thoughts

You almost start doubting your own sanity.

Yes! This was me. It killed off all of my confidence making sense of living in his world.

I am genuinely shocked at how open and honest life can really be, living with a narc was just exhausting and soul-destroying.

Morley I think thats exactly it. Its much easier to deflect this 'failing' back onto you by calling you a liar, than admitting that he went through if and it didn't work.

(I sincerely hope my language is not upsetting you, I am not try to imply that ivf makes you a failure at all, but the narc may see it this way after the event).

So as ridiculous as it seems, he deliberately calls you a liar because it's easier than admitting he is not perfect.

...went through ivf and it didn't work.

namechanger - no no you're not upsetting me (it takes a lot to upset us narc survivors doesn't it

I think you have summed the idiot up!

Does anyone have any experience of having children with narcs? We have 3 very young DDs, and I can only see their relationship becoming more difficult as the children get older and develop their own personalities and desires. I am trying to protect them as much as I can, but I don't really know what from, or how to do this.

I also don't want them to grow up learning his dysfunctional ways...

Morley I saw your old thread, you have come so far since then! He is a total twat, I'm glad you have got yourself away.

ah bless you namechanger it was one hell of a struggle (and I spent months with the lowest self esteem you can imagine) but I can honestly say I now look back and think 'what was I thinking?!' It is such a relief to get to that stage and I sympathise SO much with people that aren't yet there as I know how dreadful it is.

I'm sorry I can't help you at all with your children question! Hopefully someone will come along that can x

I think you have answered your own question really well afink:

Perhaps what a narcissist feels as being 'love' is actually a feeling of euphoria at having the narcissistic needs met by a person....it's just a heightened sense of pleasure because someone is validating them and their narcissism tank is full.

With the usual disclaimer that we are just chatting and not diagnosing - this is how I see it too. This is where all the early superlatives come from - words like head over heels, perfect, adore, dream come true, totally smitten - which with a narc, happens in a very short timespan. Why? Because they are in love with an ideal, a perfect person, someone who does not exist.

And the unsuspecting person on whom all this has been projected reflects the adoration back, which appeals to the narc like nothing else. As you said - the tank is full!

trackerbird you have just reminded me of something he once said that I'd forgotten about

Early on when he was full on he said something like he 'loved the thought/idea of us being that couple everyone was jealous of.' That's just what you are talking about isn't it? In love with the 'ideal'. Not real feelings xx

Perhaps what a narcissist feels as being 'love' is actually a feeling of euphoria at having the narcissistic needs met by a person....it's just a heightened sense of pleasure because someone is validating them and their narcissism tank is full.

So perhaps that explains why they go for attractive, educated women, etc - someone who is considered to be a trophy win for them?

Trackr, my parents had the same ideal when it came to parenthood. I think they imagined that we would stay in toddler stage forever - cute and adorable, totally devoted to them and dependent on them for everything. Of course we didn't, and theyve never been able to accept the fact that we have grown up into messy, complex people. It just doesn't fit with the fantasy of how life 'should' be and they cannot handle it

It does make sense doesn't it?

Something I noticed with my narc right from the start was how he showed his 'love' for me via things that are seen as stereotypically romantic. It niggled at me right from the beginning because he claimed to love and adore me for who I was, but there things he did and gave me were never given with any thought other than 'this is romantic and what women like'. He'd send me a dozen red roses quite regularly. Now, flowers are lovely, and red roses are beautiful of course, but I like daisies and sunflowers and daffodils, and I'm far more of a 'mix tape' girl than a hearts and flowers girl - all this was quite obvious about me. He'd give me giant teddies clutching hearts. I HATE stuff like that! I have never liked cuddly toys - even as a child. I'd receive enormous cards for every occasion emblazoned with more teddies and sugary sweet poems etc, when anyone who knows me would choose a quirky or silly card for me. It was not a question of expecting him to read my mind re: my tastes, or that I was ungrateful (I really appreciated every gesture as I stupidly thought that I should as it was what women should like), but it is as plain as anything to anyone who even knows me slightly that I am an un-fluffy, spiky, quirky type with a dark sense of humour. In retrospect, it was obvious that he was going through the motions, and that these 'grand gestures' actually meant nothing.

When I met my husband, the first gift he gave me was a copy of Womans Own magazine because he knew I'd be particularly amused by one of the headlines on the cover (something along the lines of 'I was run over by a steam roller on my wedding day while my husband pleasured himself with my mum's knickers'). I knew he was a keeper then.

Heh trackrBird ....you just described my ex to a tee....including the exact words that ex used after knowing me for about 12 hours....

Should have listened to my spidey sense then. I thought it was OTT but figured ex was just super lovely and enthusiastic.

Ex turned out to be one of the most spiteful, rage filled, cruel fantasists I've ever met. Still not sure how aware they are of their behaviour...it seemed as though they just genuinely believed they were so important and special they were entitled to the behaviour.

Which btw..they were an unemployed uni drop out (went to maybe three classes in the whole time I knew them yet made out to.all and sundry that they were a star student), with a house kept in a state that environmental health would be shocked by..reeking of cat piss with dirty clothes and old food everywhere, and worst of all over time it became apparent they were being emotionally abusive as well as physically neglectful to their child.

In other words they did sod all...just expected the world on a plate, but talked like they were a deity. Like actually believed they had deity types in their energy.

omg writing that just puts it into perspective. Thank fuck they are gone now. Feel terrible for the child...but this person had already been reported to social services and managed to convince them all.was well. Utterly charming, sweet seeming and so on when they needed to be.

'I can hear his voice criticising me all the time'

I have this with my mother. I can't seperate out the things she said because some of what she taught me was right. I mean, she taught me how to write my name, how to cross the road, that I'm unattractive, how to bake a cake, that I'm not good enough, how to use the sewing machine and that no one would ever love me.

How am I supposed to sort out what is right and what is not? And how arrogant of me to assume that, just because I don't like something, she was wrong. After all, that would make me just like her...

I don't think my mother had a grand master plan. She did despise me and she did set out to emotionally destroy me, but she felt I deserved it because, as a baby/toddler, I failed to meet her needs in the way I was supposed to. She was very open about how she felt (I was aware as I grew up) because she was so confident she was right that she thought others would see it anyway and pity her.

I've said on here before that I was 'hit' by my dad growing up. i was terrified of him. The last time I spoke to her, I accused her of not caring. She said she had cared and had I not noticed how she always left the room so she didn't have to see/hear it. Nasty, spiteful bitch.

She wasn't a happy woman. But I don't care. To coin a phrase, I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire.