what do narcissists feel?

[afink]

I had a relationship with a classic narcissist over 10 years ago. I'd always known he was abusive, but it was only after reading threads on here and then researching online that I realised that he was a narcissist and that our relationship followed the classic idealise-devalue-discard cycle.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew what narcissists actually feel at the beginning of the relationship when they are being so full on and perfect. Do they genuinely think they are in love? I can't imagine someone pretending to feel those things, although I can imagine someone conning themselves into thinking they're in love and therefore behaving in a way that they think a person who is in love behaves. Anyone?

These souls are best avoided. Don't hurt yourself trying to understand them. They can't change and the rage is something else.

Idealise-devalue-discard

That's the most interesting thing I've ever read and sums up my ex. I was left bewildered at what crime Id committed - he'd suddenly find fault with me, and withdraw. And then when Id suffered enough, come back as though nothing had happened.

purpleshimmer if you are in a position to, I really would recommend seeing a counsellor. I had just 6 sessions with one and it helped me enormously.

You will eventually lose your feelings for him on your own (I 100% guarantee you that) but a counsellor will be able to help speed this up

Good luck xx

'I can hear his voice criticising me all the time'

I can't recommend psychotherapy enough. Narcissistic people are seriously messed up and any relationship you have with them is by definition seriously messed up. Having some professional support with entangling it all, and understanding its effect on you, is invaluable

What other social interactions do you have, purple? (eg family, friends, clients etc.)

Keep at it purple. Honestly after 9 sessions you would only have begun to scratch the surface of what's going on for you. Therapy often involves prising the lid off a box of very painful feelings, and this can be very painful and scary. You can feel 'worse' for a while before you feel better. If you like your therapist and trust them, then keep going.

I used to feel very frustrated because I was seeing therapy like it was a course of medicine - I expected to feel better very quickly, and to feel better and better and better from then on in an linear way. Feelings and people don't work that way of course! I'm 6 years in, and I have moments of real peace and contentment, when I feel like I have made incredible progress and I like myself more than I ever thought possible. Those moments are becoming much more frequent, but there are still black periods where I feel my grief intensely. Just 2 weeks ago I had a 3-tissue session with my therapist and felt utterly heartbroken afterwards. It passed - it always does.

here's another perspective on all this, I know narc who is married long term to someone who says yes to them all the time, someone who enables their selfish behaviour...is this the only way a narc can have a relationship, if the other person totally becomes what the narc wants? I'm on the outside, I dont agree and condone everything the narc does and I'm dismissed like a naughty child when I say anything they dont like. It makes me feel small and of no use to anyone.

Gatewalker, I agree. i think it's all too easy to view these people as evil caricatures who sit there rubbing their hands together and gleefully thinking up which way to make their partner feel like shit next. I am pretty certain that that doesn't happen and isn't how it is for them. Their behaviour, to them, must feel completely normal and justified. I wish I could get inside the mind of one to live the thought processes and understand more.

And ssd I'm not sure that that is the case - certainly not every time. My narc tried and tried to change me into the person he wanted me to be, but the more I became that person, the more he despised me.

My exH as constantly wanted me to be better - a better cook, a better wife, better at cleaning, etc, whilst he did not lift a finger. He saw these as the qualities of his ideal partner.

He said he wanted an intelligent partner but berated my PhD, wanted a wife with a good figure but would laugh at my attempts to get fit, and ignore my successful weight loss. I agree afink, the more I became the person he wanted, the more he hated me.

I think it brings their self-esteem issues to the fore again, as he tries to point out your failings, and you then overcome them and become a better person, which threatens him further.

My children are spending 2 weeks with my narc exH at the moment, and I am hating every second of it. He will be trying to be a decent dad I am sure, but over the longer-term he will fail, because ultimately he can't seem to be able to see past his own needs. I hate to think of the emotional damage he will be causing them.

Yet he would rather sit at home alone then apologise to me or admit his failings and thereby get his family back. I can't understand it at all.

Their behaviour, to them, must feel completely normal and justified.

Yes, I think this too - they are not calculating every move (although certainly some are calculated), but it's almost like they can't help themselves, it's just who they are.

I wonder what happens in their childhoods to turn them into narcs?

If we cannot give compassion to those who are narcissistic, abusive, damaging and damaged, then we will never take a step towards healing. Compassion does NOT mean staying, tolerating, being abused, but it does mean understanding that, like afink says, they are not rubbing their hands together and gleefully thinking up which way to make their partner feel shit next. They are messed up. Messed up people mess people up. People who are messed up in different ways choose to stay with messed up people, have children, and so the cycle goes.

One of the most difficult things we can do as those who have grown up with narcissistic parents, for example, is to look at the ways our adaptive behaviours are also narcissistic. That's such a fucking toughie. But when we do, then we have the chance to get enough perspective to change. We stop trying to solve, change or cure them; we simply accept them. I do believe that, in that moment of acceptance, some profound healing can take place.

I agree with you gatewalker - acceptance is the way to freedom with so many things in life. It is bloody hard, gut-wrenching, soul-destroying work though. I think it is probably worse when the narc is a parent rather than another family member or a partner, because you can find a different loving partner, and you can rely on the other loving members of your family (if you're lucky enough to have them), but nothing can actually replace a parent. The person / people who are supposed to be your biggest source of support and love just cannot manage to hold you in mind, and that hurts so badly. The grief and the guilt have felt like they might kill me at times. I honestly feel like there will always be a huge void in my life where my parents should have been. I'm lucky in so many ways, I have a great partner and friends and other people who do see and hear me and value me for who I am, but I'm not sure the damage my parents caused will ever be fully undone. I think a tiny part of me will worry forever that I'm not a real person, just their creation which they used to project all of their crap onto.

It's very difficult to accept a narc for being who they are, if their behaviour has hurt or damaged you in any way.

I am a long way off from accepting H for who he is, he has treated me appallingly over the years, he has seen me sad and down and actively chosen not to care.

So I can't forgive him or accept him for not caring for me when I was ill, he might have a gut instinct not to help me, but as a grown man he should have been able to override this and actually man up and help me. But he actively chose not to.

So how do I heal and accept? And his ongoing power games with our children? I am in for a lifetime of pain as I will have contact with him forever more, but I need a way out of the pain and animosity I feel towards him. He has let us all down massively.

Yes, I can relate to a lot of what you've written too, Lottapianos.

And for those who are in therapy and not seeing the results yet, but feel you're with a good therapist: it takes time. A lot of time. This kind of experience is not addressed in weeks. It is months and months; years. That may feel demoralising, but I don't mean it to be. Think about it: you were with your families for years. Several weeks in therapy will absolutely not do it and in fact may be retraumatising if the therapy is curtailed. It takes patience, self-compassion, and a commitment that's not unlike marriage: for better, for worse; in (mental) sickness and in (mental) health. Hopefully, however, the "til death us do part" is less relevant

Namechanger2015 - I don't believe that I can heal and accept. I have discovered that both are things that happen as the result of turning up for the work - and increasingly for myself - over, over, and over again.

These are states we cannot choose to enter. They find us as we search and find ourselves.

Absolutely right gatewalker. I sometimes hear people say that they were in 'counselling' for 6 sessions or 10 sessions or whatever and I honestly wonder how on earth that could have helped. I'm 6 years in and have no intention of stopping any time soon. You're right - you're having to undo decades of programming and learned behaviour, how can that possibly be changed in just a few hours? I like your description of having to stick with yourself for better or worse , its not easy but definitely the best work I've ever done

My healing took place when I accepted that it wasn't my fault, it wasn't anything to do with me, that is just who he was and will probably never change.

I don't think everyone that ends up with/stays with messed up narcs are messed up themselves. Sometimes people just get unlucky, these narcs appear 'normal' at first and can charm the birds out of the trees/fool everyone (whether or not intentionally)

Precious bane..yes.
My mother does that too! Amazing what selective memories they have.
I had a job interview today.
It would have been nice for her to text a good luck message.
She didn't, obv.

Lotta - it was me that wrote earlier that I had 6 counselling sessions and it definitely helped me. Perhaps it is because I was only with him for 3 years as opposed to decades.

I can't explain why such a small amount helped me, all I know is that it did. Also we all react/deal with things differently too so I don't think we should judge when we should be 'healed' by comparing to how long others take.

Morley19, I'm really glad that it helped you and I didn't mean to be flippant

Gatewalker whilst I agree with a lot of what you say I do struggle to accept that certain elements of the behaviour fall into the 'they can't help it' camp.

Main one I'm thinking of is the rewriting of history. I lived with a man as a couple planning a family, we had two rounds of IVF at CARE to try and have a baby (CARE would have records of the counselling sessions we had to have as a couple). After he had ceremoniously dumped me in the manner he did, he then put it writing that I was no more of a lodger, who was infertile and he had offered to be a sperm donor as a way of helping me with MY IVF?

Surely lying like that was 'within his control?'

Or do you think as well as displaying narc behaviour he was also just a lying pig?! Very possible I expect