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Original poster

porn and our future

460 replies

myluckystars · 09/07/2015 19:37

I have been married to dh for 4 years and we have a toddler. Before we got engaged I came home to my flat which we were sharing at the time to find him watching porn on the computer. He wasn't expecting me home for another few hours so was doing this in secret. I have strong feelings about porn and don't like it for a multitude of reasons. I was very upset at the time and told him if it happened again the relationship was over, he seemed very upset by my being upset and that was it (we had a very good sex life btw). We carried on together and got engaged, then married, I trusted him. When out baby was 6 months I caught him again and literally an hour before I caught him I had asked him if he ever did it and he looked me in eye and promised no but then I caught him practically straight after. I realised that probably all the times he had been up late at night while I was going to bed early to get up with baby, he had probably been watching porn and then getting up early and moaning about being tired. Anyway, I was furious and said if it happened again it would be divorce. So 3 years on so far so good although can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face.

Fast forward to now and there is a man at work who I have developed feelings for who I am sure feels the same. Nothing has ever happened and I have been very careful to not let my feelings slip out and I feel guilty because I am married. Part of me feels it is not a marriage anymore anyway and surely I deserve to be happy.

OP posts:
keepitsimple0 · 18/07/2015 03:08

Lying to someone about something which you know means they would leave you, if they knew the truth, so that you can selfishly keep benefitting from the relationship is the particular lie we are discussing here. No that is never acceptable.

surely why you are lying matters, no? it's pretty obvious why the OP's partner lied - she threatened to turn his life upside down if he answered yes. he likely sees it as not something deserving of ending a marriage over.

keepitsimple0 · 18/07/2015 03:13

It is not up to anyone else to tell someone whether their boundary is ok or not no matter how nicely they do it.

of course, different people have different boundaries and different likes and different things they object to.

But it is up to everyone else to say if such a thing is reasonable grounds to end an otherwise healthy relationship (and of course others including the OP are free to disagree). The other problem is that the OP juxtaposed something she thought was pretty awful about her partner with acts of her own that many people consider much worse.

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:14

Of course why you are lying matters. That was the very point of that post!

No-one has the right to a relationship with someone else. I can't believe anyone would suggest that lying so that you get to keep the benefits of being in a relationship that your partner would otherwise want to end is an acceptable reason to lie.

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:15

And no, it's none of anyon

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:16

None of anyone else's business whether they feel a boundary is unreasonable.

No-one is forcing you to be with someone who has different boundaries to you.

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:17

You like porn you get with someone else who likes porn.

You don't like porn you don't 'deserve' to be lied to.

Totally ridiculous.

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:19

In fact I think that is much more important. Who wants to be with someone who thinks they get to dictate the terms of the relationship entirely by themselves and tell their partner how they are allowed to feel?

GirlDownUnder · 18/07/2015 03:22

surely why you are lying matters, no? it's pretty obvious why the OP's partner lied - she threatened to turn his life upside down if he answered yes. he likely sees it as not something deserving of ending a marriage over.

So his comfort and what he wants is so all important that lying to his life partner is excusable? Really? When does what his partner wants matter?

And what Offred said.

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:24

And if enjoying porn is the only reasonable view why on earth would you lie? Why wouldn't you just make it clear from the start that you fundamentally disagreed and find a better suited partner?

Unless you get off on control?

GirlDownUnder · 18/07/2015 03:27

Or you think that relationships are a dictatorship, and the man is the head

keepitsimple0 · 18/07/2015 03:31

None of anyone else's business whether they feel a boundary is unreasonable.

sure it is. we can all judge and think all we like how reasonable something is and can voice our opinions on it. And the OP is free to disagree with all/any of us and disregard our opinions.

No-one has the right to a relationship with someone else. I can't believe anyone would suggest that lying so that you get to keep the benefits of being in a relationship that your partner would otherwise want to end is an acceptable reason to lie.

the benefits of remaining in this relationship has to do with at least one third party.

I am not saying he was right to lie. I am saying I understand why he did it because he was threatened with some pretty harsh consequences. what he should have done is been honest from the beginning especially because it appears he was informed this was a deal breaker before engagement and child. he probably should have said he can't promise to forever abstain.

keepitsimple0 · 18/07/2015 03:35

And if enjoying porn is the only reasonable view why on earth would you lie? Why wouldn't you just make it clear from the start that you fundamentally disagreed and find a better suited partner?

yes, that is indeed what he should have done. I agree with that.

So his comfort and what he wants is so all important that lying to his life partner is excusable? Really? When does what his partner wants matter?

he was lying because he was coerced. he didn't lie because his comfort is so important. He lied because he was threatened.

Offred · 18/07/2015 03:40

Having a different view is not being coerced. The only person who has actually been coerced is the op, by his lies. Someone wanting to end a relationship is not a threat. People are allowed to end a relationship for whatever reason they want.

keepitsimple0 · 18/07/2015 03:45

"if you answer 'yes' to the following question our marriage is over."

you don't think that's a threat? that doesn't constitute coercion?

well then, we disagree on the definitions of 'threat' and 'coercion'.

People are allowed to end a relationship for whatever reason they want.

and someone disagrees with this?

WhySoAngry · 18/07/2015 06:57

Why are we still talking about this?

OP, I suggest you either shit or get off the pot.

Accept it. Or move on. Period.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 18/07/2015 11:05

WhySoAngry has summarised it perfectly.
You either accept he is a porn user - or separate.
He has lied about porn several times, so you can be sure he will keep using it.
So if you can't live with that (which is totally reasonable), it's time to move on.

PegPeg · 18/07/2015 11:33

If the OP has come on this forum to get affirmation that her views on porn are right, then she's got that. If she's come on here seeking encouragement to end her marriage, she's got that too. Those of you who have said her and her husband are incompatible, or that she shouldn't forgive his transgression, or that she shouldn't trust him again... you've done a good job in encouraging her to end her marriage.

But is she on this forum because she wants to/intends to end her marriage...? Or is she here because she wants guidance on how they can try to save their marriage? From what I've read here, I'm assuming it's the latter, and so the thoughts I'm sharing are attempting to help her with this.

It's not as simple as her just walking away from her marriage. I'll explain why I think this: From what I've understood, they've been together ages, have invested a lot of time in building a life together, they have a child together, and otherwise have had a generally stable and secure relationship. Also, from what the OP has said, it sounds like she believes he is not cheating her, that he is not prone to lying in general, nor does she believe he 'gets off on the abuse and degradation' of women, she considers him to be very respectful of women. She seems to accept that not all people who enjoy porn enjoy it specifically for the abuse and degradation it engenders, and that some people just watch porn because they like watching two people have sex (I can personally vouch for this).

Whatever the dark connotations of porn, and however you feel about porn as an industry, the subjective intentions of the viewer must surely come into it, especially if you are familiar with their character and know them to not be abusive and disrespectful of women.

The lying is a bigger issue - as the OP herself has stated - but does it have to be a marriage-ending one? Or could they work through it? and if so, is there any better way of doing this than by starting to communicate better, and trying to understand each other's feelings and motivations better, instead of - as Offed put it - "thinking they get to dictate the terms of the relationship entirely by themselves and tell their partner how they are allowed to feel"...?

Because if either of them are doing this, it's not a true partnership. They both need to stop doing this, if they want to save their marriage. If anyone has a better suggestion for how they can start resolving this situation, then please do share. But I think it's going to take a little movement on both sides, a little more compassion and open-mindedness from both. Otherwise, yes, just accept you are incompatible and end the marriage.

Offred · 18/07/2015 14:10

Well yes, you are suggesting she do exactly what she has been doing for the last few years - try and live with something she finds unacceptable.

No subjective intentions don't come into it when something is a dealbreaker for you. That's what dealbreaker means. It's like a strict liability offence - something which is relationship ending for you no matter the person's intentions.

Loads of people on this thread have been debating whether the op is allowed to feel this way about porn when that's never been the issue. Everything she has described is consistent with actually feeling this way about porn and therefore there is no way to actually save this relationship is there? One person would just become a dictator and neither would be happy because they are fundamentally incompatible on an issue of high importance.

laurierf · 18/07/2015 14:41

Why are we still talking about this? OP, I suggest you either shit or get off the pot. Accept it. Or move on. Period

Why so bossy?

Maybe the OP needs to talk and think this through before she can decide wether it's something she can really accept or whether she really does have to move on. You know, it's quite a big step she's contemplating here...

You're not obliged to keep reading this thread if you're bored and frustrated by the OP not being convinced of your opinion.

nequidnimis · 18/07/2015 15:19

I don't think that loads of people have been debating whether the OP is allowed to feel how she feels at all.

I think pretty much everyone has said she's perfectly entitled to see porn as a deal breaker, and leave.

I think the debate has been between those who think that leaving is a done deal, and those who hope that the marriage may be salvageable.

OP presumably came here for opinions, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with exploring all options and offering alternative viewpoints IMO. OP herself has said that all views have been helpful.

I guess I'm in the second camp because I don't think it's coincidence that OP's strong feelings about her DH's porn use three years ago have resurfaced at the same time she's developing feelings for a work colleague.

PegPeg · 18/07/2015 16:06

You are suggesting she do exactly what she has been doing for the last few years - try and live with something she finds unacceptable.

That's not what I'm suggesting, Offred. I'm not suggesting she suddenly become fine with the idea of her husband watching it, or that she just lives sucks it up and lives with it. Why does everything have to be so black and white...? It really doesn't help, when life clearly isn't black and white, and neither are human beings.

*Subjective intentions don't come into it when something is a dealbreaker for you. That's what dealbreaker means.

I agree! But if the OP really was sure this really was a dealbreaker for her, she would have already walked away, wouldn't she? I mean, why is she even here, right...?

And again, why does everything have to be so black and white...? The only reason I can think of is that it makes someone feel safer, somehow, to think that way.

I'm not saying the OP doesn't have the right to feel how she feels, but I am suggesting that it if she does want to save her marriage, it would be very sensible to look much more closely at why those views are so strong. So strong that they override everything - all the years they've spent together, all the work they've put in, the good times they've shared, the child they have created and raised together, the generally wonderful character she knows her husband to be.... all gone, all irrelevant, null and void, because she can see things only in black and white.

I am suggesting that unless she addresses this, her marriage is over. I think we are in agreement on this Offred, not at loggerheads. You just happen to think she shouldn't address her own issues in order to try and save her marriage, whereas I do.

PegPeg · 18/07/2015 16:12

And just to be clear, by 'address her own issues' I don't mean thats she should suddenly become OK with porn watching.

Offred · 18/07/2015 16:34

Why is it always the woman who has to examine their views and compromise? Why are you assuming she hasn't formed her own view as a result of analysis etc? Why isn't it up to her partner to examine why he lied rather than the op to re-examine how she feels?

Offred · 18/07/2015 16:36

And 'why didn't she just leave?!' Is a really common and ignorant thing to say. Leaving is really difficult but even more so when the whole world is eager to jump on you and tell you you aren't allowed to feel the way you do, want to leave or in fact leave as has happened on this thread.

nequidnimis · 18/07/2015 17:00

To be fair it's usual to direct advice and opinions at the OP rather than to their partner isn't it?

Although plenty of people have suggested talking to him about it, or exploring his motives through counselling.

We obviously don't know why OPs DH lied, although there's been lots of speculation, but I reckon he'd think he'd done as much as anyone could by never looking at it again and being a wonderful husband and partner in the intervening years.