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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

porn and our future

460 replies

myluckystars · 09/07/2015 19:37

I have been married to dh for 4 years and we have a toddler. Before we got engaged I came home to my flat which we were sharing at the time to find him watching porn on the computer. He wasn't expecting me home for another few hours so was doing this in secret. I have strong feelings about porn and don't like it for a multitude of reasons. I was very upset at the time and told him if it happened again the relationship was over, he seemed very upset by my being upset and that was it (we had a very good sex life btw). We carried on together and got engaged, then married, I trusted him. When out baby was 6 months I caught him again and literally an hour before I caught him I had asked him if he ever did it and he looked me in eye and promised no but then I caught him practically straight after. I realised that probably all the times he had been up late at night while I was going to bed early to get up with baby, he had probably been watching porn and then getting up early and moaning about being tired. Anyway, I was furious and said if it happened again it would be divorce. So 3 years on so far so good although can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face.

Fast forward to now and there is a man at work who I have developed feelings for who I am sure feels the same. Nothing has ever happened and I have been very careful to not let my feelings slip out and I feel guilty because I am married. Part of me feels it is not a marriage anymore anyway and surely I deserve to be happy.

OP posts:
PegPeg · 17/07/2015 13:50

Tesco being parallel to porn is preposterous

They both exploit people, that's the point I was making... it's not 'preposterous', it's just the truth.

PegPeg · 17/07/2015 13:57

OP, I have a few questions for you. These are not trick questions, I promise. I am trying to help...

Are you anxieties all about your husband watching porn, or is it more generally about porn itself?

Do you find yourself obsessing over the porn thing? Do you find that your anxieties about sexual exploitation have become a bit all-consuming? Are thoughts of it affecting you on a daily basis? And do you find yourself feeling a bit powerless in the face of all the misogyny in this world?

pocketsaviour · 17/07/2015 14:12

personally I would have been less put off if he had developed feelings for a woman at work

How very convenient for you. You're really well along the road to justifying your EA there, carry on, I'm sure in a couple of days you'll have convinced yourself it's perfectly okay because three years ago your husband once watched a video of a couple of strangers having sex, while having a wank. Well done Star

GirlDownUnder · 17/07/2015 15:52

Offered Flowers

Porn apologisers - as porn is such a basic need I guess you'll all be well chuffed if your children ever entered the industry - yay them helping out all the hard done by Star [sarcasm in case you also need that spelling out]

And guess what I don't need to have experienced something like ooo I dunno shoplifting, murder, sex with minors to know it's wrong.... just mansplaining for y'all :)

GirlDownUnder · 17/07/2015 15:58

And obvs that's offred cos autocorrect, like others, hates anything off the well beaten, down trodden path

Offred · 17/07/2015 16:08
Grin
Keepithidden · 17/07/2015 16:30

To be fair I'd be conflicted if my kids entered the porn industry. If they were happy and informed about it what right do I have to question their choices?

Bit of a moral quandary for a lot of folk though...

Keepithidden · 17/07/2015 16:31

Suppose I'd view it like them ending working for a tobacco company. Maybe.

Made me think that post did!

PegPeg · 17/07/2015 16:32

The issue here isn't the right vs wrong of porn. We could argue about its morality until the cows come home, but it's not going to solve OP's problem.

The issue is that the OP is unhappy and I think the most helpful thing would be to try and get to the bottom of exactly why, and perhaps offer some alternative perspectives to consider - not to prove a point that our own view of porn is right, but to actually try to help the OP to find a path through her problem.

What do you consider is the fundamental reason you are unhappy, OP? Is it because a) your husband lied, b) he enjoys watching porn and his enjoyment of it disgusts you, or c) porn exists. You can say 'all three' if you like, but if you really think hard about it, which of the three is the most significant for you?

Perhaps we need to untangle the issue a bit before it can be resolved...

Keepithidden · 17/07/2015 16:35

Neatly summed up Peg.

myluckystars · 17/07/2015 16:45

Thank you Peg but your description of an anxiety disorder does not apply to me.

OP posts:
myluckystars · 17/07/2015 16:47

The fact he lied is the worst bit, porn second and couldn't really care less if anyone else likes it, obviously it's here to stay in the world so I'm obviously not taking all that on. This is a man who is so truthful in every other way.

OP posts:
PegPeg · 17/07/2015 16:50

OK, good. What about my other questions? Remember I am trying to help, not trick you into changing your views :)

PegPeg · 17/07/2015 16:52

OK you just answered them before I wrote the above. Will come back with some thoughts

PegPeg · 17/07/2015 16:54

OK so the number one problem for you is that your husband lied to you.

What other questions is this raising for you about him/your marriage?

myluckystars · 17/07/2015 17:31

None, he is honest to the core otherwise however I have noticed a tendency to be rather childish about the possibility of 'getting into trouble' sort of trying to always do the right thing. He is very sweet and kind and affectionate.

OP posts:
PegPeg · 17/07/2015 17:58

It seems there is a conflict between the man you know your husband to be (kind, loyal, respectful etc) and the behaviour (looking at porn, which you associate with misogyny and exploitation).

It can be difficult to reconcile two such seemingly opposed things.

Porn may be a black-and-white moral issue for you, but your husband isn't. We are all shades of grey (no pun intended), good thoughts mixed with bad, with quite overwhelming urges at play sometimes, however strong our morals, however good our intentions. Your husband has caved in a couple of times to his urges. He hasn't gone out and raped / killed anyone .... but he has caved into a natural urge, the act of which may or may not have involved the exploitation of somebody somewhere along the way, and which involves the viewing of material that is generally representative of misygynistic views (but not necessarily representative of his own views).

In your view (I assume, although I don't have time right now to look back over all your previous posts for your exact feelings about porn), people who watch porn are misogynists. Do you really think your husband is, though? From what you've said of his character, I don't think you do think that.

But I can see you're in this conflict - "I know people who watch porn are bad, but my husband's not bad... is he?" How do you reconcile this in your mind? It's like the rules have been broken somehow.

If everything you know about him after all this time, combined with your instincts, are telling you that he is a good man, honest to the core (apart from the two times he's lied to you about porn) then I think that should come into play in your decision making about your future, t'is all.

I don't think you think he is a liar in any other area of your lives together. If you do think this, you need to examine the lying behaviour, before the porn watching behaviour.

myluckystars · 17/07/2015 19:35

I think your post is very insightful peg. He doesn't lie in other situations and is respectful to everyone, men and women the same. He has a fantastic relationship with his mother and sisters and previous long relationships with nice women. He doesn't hate women at all.

OP posts:
Maleperspective99 · 17/07/2015 20:27

Most men will watch porn from time to time because they are highly sexed, and are interested. In porn they can see other women without cheating, if you want my advice try and lighten up because not only will this other man watch porn but has no respect for you or your married status. Is this really a marriage deal breaker? If so you will probably end up getting divorced half a dozen times.

WhySoAngry · 17/07/2015 21:54

If so you will probably end up getting divorced half a dozen times

Or you may end up spending your entire life with a man who is better at hiding the fact that he watches porn

Maleperspective99 · 17/07/2015 22:22

Whysoangry, exactly.

PegPeg · 18/07/2015 00:15

He doesn't lie in other situations and is respectful to everyone, men and women the same. He has a fantastic relationship with his mother and sisters and previous long relationships with nice women. He doesn't hate women at all.

He sounds pretty good, to me.

And you know, not everyone who watches porn is inherently bad. Most of them are just these shades of grey, same as the rest of us. They are not all misogynistic or uncaring oafs, and they don't all actively support exploitative practices. You know this to be true, because your husband is not a misogynistic uncaring oaf who actively supports exploitative practices...

You don't have to change your feelings about porn, you have every right to revile it. But I honestly think it might help you to accept that people who watch porn are not necessarily bad people. I watch porn sometimes.... yet I am not a misogynist (far from it), or in denial about the reality of the porn industry, or particularly selfish as a person in general. I actively fight for women's rights, support human rights charities, and I am a loyal and devoted friend and partner. You don't have to believe me when I say that, because you've never met me and you don't know me... but you DO know your husband. You've experienced him, life with him, for many years. It sounds like he is a good man. Not a perfect one... but it does sound like his heart is in the right place.

I think this is, at least, a good start... a good basis on which to perhaps decide to not jack it all in just yet. Perhaps to start trying to understand him a little better, and giving him the chance to understand you a little better too. To communicate, and be a bit more open to each other's point of view...

Offred · 18/07/2015 01:51

No-one has said watching porn = bad person.

It is not up to anyone else to tell someone whether their boundary is ok or not no matter how nicely they do it.

And I see the 'you'll be alone forever' brigade are out again.

GirlDownUnder · 18/07/2015 02:53

A relationship is just another name for an agreement between two (or more) people.

What people do or do not do in a relationship is not dictated in some kind of universal contract, it is what two people agree to during the course of the relationship.
OP has the right to ask him to do or not do [insert want], just as he has the right to ask her to do or not do [insert want].
They either agree and enter into a relationship, or don't and seperate.

Any breach of this agreement is cheating, regardless of how stupid or absurd anyone else feels the agreement is. For many there is absolutely no difference in asking a partner not to look at porn and asking them not to sleep with someone else. Sadly one is just more universally accepted than the other.

And in this context of agreeing then lying, hiding, minimising is just as damaging.

Who really wants to be with a partner who gets off on the abuse and degradation of the gender they belong to?

OP I guess for you the central question is do you still consider your DH a porn user? And if you don't then I'm not sure why 3 years later, and all the other positives you've listed, you're still so put off by the porn use and lying that sex is rare, and there are still trust issues. You still need to talk to him.

Canyouforgiveher · 18/07/2015 03:00

The problem is you vow to be sexually faithful for life when you marry and wanking off over porn I think breaks that vow

God if my husband imposed that interpretation of fidelity, I'd be screwed (probably more than he would be -just the way we are wired)

Honestly OP, I think your dh cannot live up to your expectations of a relationship and you are entitled to have any expectations you want.

You are probably better apart. If that is your boundary then so be it.

But I don't think you should think of him as a bad person. Just someone you are not compatible with - just as he is not compatible with you.

no blame just separate

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