porn and our future

[myluckystars]

I have been married to dh for 4 years and we have a toddler. Before we got engaged I came home to my flat which we were sharing at the time to find him watching porn on the computer. He wasn't expecting me home for another few hours so was doing this in secret. I have strong feelings about porn and don't like it for a multitude of reasons. I was very upset at the time and told him if it happened again the relationship was over, he seemed very upset by my being upset and that was it (we had a very good sex life btw). We carried on together and got engaged, then married, I trusted him. When out baby was 6 months I caught him again and literally an hour before I caught him I had asked him if he ever did it and he looked me in eye and promised no but then I caught him practically straight after. I realised that probably all the times he had been up late at night while I was going to bed early to get up with baby, he had probably been watching porn and then getting up early and moaning about being tired. Anyway, I was furious and said if it happened again it would be divorce. So 3 years on so far so good although can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face.

Fast forward to now and there is a man at work who I have developed feelings for who I am sure feels the same. Nothing has ever happened and I have been very careful to not let my feelings slip out and I feel guilty because I am married. Part of me feels it is not a marriage anymore anyway and surely I deserve to be happy.

Oh Fearless, go and watch some porn to let off some of the tension your feeling. Ffs. Maybe I am out of order. Ill be honest. I have very low self esteem and maybe that's why I have these views. But really. Iv got better things in my life then to be getting myself in a tizz about this. If you want to watch porn, just go and bloody watch it. Shine a light.

Apologise

How are "squirting orgasms" realistic - they are not a thing...

But they are a thing. They're a thing where some women release urine (apparently, I've never personally taken a sample!) during an orgasm. There's a lot of fakery in mainstream porn about squirting? Well, yes. See also: orgasms, boobs.

"Nobody needs porn"? Well, people don't need a lot of stuff that they have, but that makes life more enjoyable. We don't need books, but our lives would be immeasurably poorer for not having them. Same goes for music, films, organic food, walking along the beach or in a park, having friendships. Having sex!

A lot of books and magazines are published, every day, that reinforce damaging misogynistic values. A lot of films are released, the same thing applies. I'm not going to stop consuming ALL films, TV, and print media because 90% of it is crap; I'm going to find the books and films and newspapers that I like and enjoy them. And it's the same for me with porn: there's an awful lot of crap out there, but I'm going to keep watching the stuff I like, that fits my ethics AND revs my engines.

Anyway I'm dashing out now to grab myself some tea. Enjoy your evening, all :)

But that's the whole point. The damage being done primarily to gender equality and women just is not justified by some individual's enjoyment IMO whether that is a sex industry worker or a consumer.

It's not a squirting orgasm though. It's an orgasm where a woman also urinates. The term was made up by the male led porn industry to refer to female ejaculation which is not an actual thing.

And I do criticise things that promote damaging views, whether it is porn, a book a TV show I certainly don't enjoy them.

It's close to prostetution. Just legal.

I don't think you can compare it to prostitution. In porn performers are engaging with other performers, not a succession of clients.

I suppose it IS prostitution. It's being paid to have sex.

Urghh. Never thought of it that way before.

"close to prostitution but legal" - prostitution is legal.

Definition of prostitute - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution

Yes porn is watching prostitutes.

Nice.

How are you, OP? x

In this case, branding this man as a liar is both insulting and rude.
He has lied, but for good reason, because he knows the reaction he would get from his DW and no decent man wants to upset his partner, even if he is in the wrong.
That DOES NOT MAKE LYING RIGHT!
All I'm saying is it's unfair to BRAND him as a liar!

The OP and her DH quite obviously need to talk about this if they want to save their marriage. Leaving someone because they have watched porn and lied about it and because you hold strong views about porn if fine as long as you consider the wider picture.
-Families will be affected
-Children will be affected
-Your living arrangements may be affected
-Your finances will be affected
That's not to mention the personal trauma for both of you.
So please, I urge you to sit down with your DH and discuss this and try and work out a compromise and I do mean compromise rather than you insisting he does not watch porn.
You need to trust him again, that trust needs to be earned but you both need to work out what is and what isn't acceptable and when you ask he needs to be truthful and you need to accept that he will do some things that you don't agree with.
In the greater scheme of things we all do things that our partners don't agree with, some things are harder to swallow than others but that's what being in a relationship is all about isn't it. Working at it and compromising.
We are all human's, all built differently.

Having said all of that, you seem to have made up your mind that the marriage is over. It seems sad to me that you could not have dealt with this and that your marriage is going to end because of this but if that is how you really feel then don't mess about.

OP, so you've found out your DH isn't perfect. He has a few fairly human flaws. The lying is clearly a big deal for you, which I understand.

But your description of him apart from this one issue is of a great guy.

So what do you think will happen if you leave him? There isn't a long queue of perfect men out there waiting to meet you. Just about everybody is flawed in some way.

So the question is what flaws are you prepared to put up with? The next guy might be honest as the day is long, but lazy and untidy. The one after that might have a high flying career that you come second to every time.

Marriage = compromise. Not just on little things, but on the huge stuff like this too. Please think carefully before you walk away - the grass is not always greener.

So when men lie about porn it is not a big deal? Well, it wouldn't be to the man doing the lying would it? The lying in a situation like this, when they know it is a dealbreaker for their partner, means they don't respect their partner though so that's kind of a marriage ender in itself - you don't get to tell another person how they are allowed to feel about porn and it is highly disrespectful to begin from a position of being aware of someone's feelings and choosing to lie so you continue to get access to their body, their emotional support etc yeah I don't think issuing ultimatums and not carrying them out is fair either.

Oh and basically marriage equals men being allowed to lie and women having to compromise? Marriage to me means honesty and respect before it means compromise. You don't compromise with someone who treats you without respect. If you want compromise you don't lie. You are adult men, not children. This is your partner, your equal, not your mum.

Women do not need a man. Therefore it is irrelevant to desperately point out that no man will want a woman who doesn't accept porn. It isn't true either. It is just what you'd like to believe. I feel strongly about porn. I'd be happy never to have another relationship again if it were true that all men think the way you do - that porn is fine, women are unreasonable and you have to lie to them - just what about that means a woman would want to be with YOU do you think?!

Offred - you have completely misunderstood my post .
I am not suggesting that any of this is trivial or that it's not a big deal.
I didn't say she needed a man. I didn't say no man will want a woman who doesn't accept porn.
I didn't even say it would have to be the OP that compromised.
I don't think porn is fine - I hate it. I also hate lies - I have had my fair share and understand the impact they have.

I'm only saying that there will always be a big deal of some sort eventually in a marriage because neither party is perfect.
If this is OP's deal breaker - fair enough.
But it sounds like outside of this issue he is a good partner and dad.
All I am suggesting is that there may be a solution that can be found to keep this marriage together. That's all.

Offred
So when men lie about porn it is not a big deal?
No one said that it wasn't a big deal, if they did then you can quote them and I apologise.

Oh and basically marriage equals men being allowed to lie and women having to compromise? Marriage to me means honesty and respect before it means compromise.
You've nearly got it...no two people are the same, fact! It's just human biology, therefore some level of compromise is always required in every relationship. Maybe your just not aware of the compromises your partner is making

Women do not need a man
Really? what a shallow and extreme feminist statement that is, we all know where extremism gets us!

If you feel that strongly about a subject (it does not have to be porn) and you have told your partner then please don't be surprised if they lie to you to cover the fact that they don't feel as strongly as you.

"If you feel that strongly about a subject (it does not have to be porn) and you have told your partner then please don't be surprised if they lie to you to cover the fact that they don't feel as strongly as you."

Only weak or guilty people lie.

I don't have a 'partner' I have a boyfriend, he feels strongly that I shouldn't cheat on him, or hold conservative views reckon I should just lie about it because that'd be fair wouldn't it? Or is it just women that are not allowed to feel strongly about things?

Why on earth is 'women don't need a man' 'shallow' and 'extreme'... You certainly seem to have strong feelings about that so, oh, I see now that of course women need to be in a relationship with a man! How could I not see that glaringly obvious point properly before?! I'm so happy you made me see that before it was too late and I became a lonely old spinster with millions of cats! Thank you! Is that the kind of thing you mean?

Offred - please allow me to summarise your position as I understand it.

You don't like porn. You think it's wrong from an ethical standpoint. Because you don't like and think it's wrong you don't watch it.

That means you don't actually know what it's like from personal experience. You're judging it on supposition and hearsay rather than direct, personal experience.

Not all porn is the same. Yes, some is still misogynistic, but styles are changing. Much contemporary porn (such as X-Art) is naturalistic - showing 'loving couples' in tender, intimate moments that are erotic without promoting damaging female stereotypes.

But since you believe that porn is wrong in principle as well as in practice you obviously won't allow the truth to ruin your misinformed feminist narrative.

If you were actually to go and watch some modern porn your views would have greater merit.

Offred

People lie for all sorts of reasons. It makes then neither weak or guilty, it's just a human trait developed over hundreds of thousands of years.
In the OP's case her DH should NOT have lied. He should have come clean, apologised for letting her down and they should have worked out how they were going to deal with the issues.

'Women don't need Men' is just a blatant extreme feminist view and does not really have a place in this thread. There was no real need for you to say it and it has not helped the OP in anyway.
Of course the OP may well come back and say "hey Offred, your right. I don't need a man so I've LTB"
It's still a feminist statement though, if you don't like the criticism then don't post the comment. Personally I have no time for extremists of any kind but hey, that's just me, a Neanderthal man.

What really shouldn't be lost is the OP is considering making massive changes to her, her husbands, her childrens, her families and her friends lives because her DH lied about watching porn. If those are her limits and she is prepared to change all that for the sake of her morals then she is indeed a very strong woman who should be proud of herself for standing by those morals.
But maybe, just maybe, for the sake of everybody, there is another way.

well you are both covering yourselves in glory aren't you?!

Thanks for mansplaining my own views to me (incorrectly)...

The statement 'women don't need a man' is a fact and certainly not an extreme feminist view. It was needed on this thread because men were implying that if women don't put up with lies and boundary breaking they will end up single forever.

How in any universe would asserting your boundaries in the face of a partner who lied and disrespected your right to your own autonomous opinions and beliefs be the fault of the boundary asserter? It is firmly the fault of the liar.

Having a penis does not give you carte Blanche to do what you like and blame other people. It doesn't give you the ability to lecture people both on what they think and what you think they should think.

And I ask you again - what about holding these views makes YOU attractive to women?

And don't you just hate it when people assume women don't like porn because it isn't romantic?! As romantic porn is not ever misogynistic.... Jeez... I have explained how I feel about porn perfectly adequately. You can either read that and disagree, read it and agree or twist my views to suit your agenda. I have no control over what you do there.

Having a penis does not give you carte blanche to do what you like and blame other people. It doesn't give you the ability to lecture people both on what they think and what you think they should think

Nor does having a vagina.