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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

porn and our future

460 replies

myluckystars · 09/07/2015 19:37

I have been married to dh for 4 years and we have a toddler. Before we got engaged I came home to my flat which we were sharing at the time to find him watching porn on the computer. He wasn't expecting me home for another few hours so was doing this in secret. I have strong feelings about porn and don't like it for a multitude of reasons. I was very upset at the time and told him if it happened again the relationship was over, he seemed very upset by my being upset and that was it (we had a very good sex life btw). We carried on together and got engaged, then married, I trusted him. When out baby was 6 months I caught him again and literally an hour before I caught him I had asked him if he ever did it and he looked me in eye and promised no but then I caught him practically straight after. I realised that probably all the times he had been up late at night while I was going to bed early to get up with baby, he had probably been watching porn and then getting up early and moaning about being tired. Anyway, I was furious and said if it happened again it would be divorce. So 3 years on so far so good although can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face.

Fast forward to now and there is a man at work who I have developed feelings for who I am sure feels the same. Nothing has ever happened and I have been very careful to not let my feelings slip out and I feel guilty because I am married. Part of me feels it is not a marriage anymore anyway and surely I deserve to be happy.

OP posts:
Offred · 15/07/2015 16:20

No, it doesn't. But I've only ever asserted that women who object to porn are entitled to object and that men who watch it have to be honest that they do. If they lie and disrespect there is no relationship to save IMO.

You posted a massive post lecturing me about what I think and why it is wrong, read it back.

WhySoAngry · 15/07/2015 16:25

Do you watch porn? Are you informed about what you're saying? Or it is all hearsay?

Offred · 15/07/2015 16:25

If you can point out where I have said men are not allowed to watch porn and if they do they should expect their partner to leave that would be helpful.

Men are perfectly allowed to watch porn, to like porn, to disagree with me but I do not have to be in a relationship with them and I do not deserve being lied to about it. Neither does the op.

Offred · 15/07/2015 16:31

I have seen porn yes, if you read, when someone posted a link to the feminist porn awards site I explored the site and explained why it wasn't acceptable to me. I also explained earlier that my objection is about objectification of women and perpetuation of misogyny NOT about porn per se.

Do you bother to read threads before posting?

My views on porn are mine to have, I find it interesting that people on this thread feel it is somehow ok to put them on trial. Think about it. Me objecting to porn does not threaten you not objecting to porn. You are not in a relationship with me so it is utterly irrelevant to you how I feel about relationships and porn - why is it that you are so keen to keep labouring the point that I am not reasonable to have my own view and make my own choice?

WhySoAngry · 15/07/2015 16:34

Men are perfectly allowed to watch porn, to like porn, to disagree with me but I do not have to be in a relationship with them and I do not deserve being lied to about it

Offred: Is it ever acceptable for someone to lie to their partner/spouse about anything?

Offred · 15/07/2015 16:44

No, but some lies which are unselfish may be more understandable/forgivable. No-one deserves to be lied to based on them having strong beliefs.

Lying to someone about something which you know means they would leave you, if they knew the truth, so that you can selfishly keep benefitting from the relationship is the particular lie we are discussing here. No that is never acceptable.

nequidnimis · 16/07/2015 17:56

I doubt anyone on here believes that OP doesn't have the absolute right to detest porn, tell her DH it's a deal breaker and ultimately leave since he did both watch it and lie about it.

But some have urged OP to give some thought to the possibility that she might be using this 3-year old transgression - even subconsciously- to justify the feelings she's developed for her colleague.

Or to point out that nobody's perfect, and most relationships have to deal with such issues at some point.

It seems a shame that an otherwise 'wonderful husband and father' should find himself dumped because of something he did once, so long ago, and I imagine he'd find it pretty confusing and unfair.

DH has strong views on buying ethically. If he found out I'd bought a sneaky t-shirt from primark he'd be pretty disappointed. If I cut the label out and lied, he'd be really really disappointed. If I didn't do it again but then, three years later, he told me he couldn't get past it I'd think there was something else going on.

Can you talk to him about it op? Tell him that it still bothers you after several years, that you wonder if he still watches and reiterate how serious the ramifications would be for your marriage if he did?

The wider debate about porn is irrelevant since the only thing that matters is how you feel about it.

myluckystars · 16/07/2015 19:56

Just out of interest did your marriage vows include shopping ethically? Probably not. The problem is you vow to be sexually faithful for life when you marry and wanking off over porn I think breaks that vow, I certainly felt my marriage was null and void when I found out.

OP posts:
Jo4040 · 16/07/2015 20:21

Myluckystars. Hits the nail on the head. BANG

JohnFarleysRuskin · 16/07/2015 21:26

Did someone say women not needing a man is a shallow and extremist feminist statement?

That is hilarious!!

WhySoAngry · 16/07/2015 21:32

you vow to be sexually faithful for life when you marry and wanking off over porn I think breaks that vow

Really? Really??? You're kidding, aren't you?

Would wanking over an actress in a TV drama or film break that vow? Or wanking over someone your OH saw in the street? Or wanking over someone merely imagined?

How about wanking after/during reading 50 Shades of Grey? That would surely mean hundreds of MumsNetters had broken their vows!

PeppermintPasty · 16/07/2015 21:32

Bloody hell, we're back to ethical clothes. Good god.

Offred · 16/07/2015 21:37

My marriage vows didn't even involve all that Christian crap. I don't think it's about marriage vows at all!

nequidnimis · 16/07/2015 22:24

I doubt that many people would equate masturbation with infidelity but if that's the depth of feeling involved here then that's fair enough I guess.

Do you feel that your vows are in any way compromised by the improper feelings you were developing for your colleague? You know, your DH might.

Do you plan to do him the courtesy of telling him about that? Or is omission allowed?

PegPeg · 16/07/2015 22:46

OP, I think you know that porn isn't the real problem here. The fundamental problems are 1. lack of compatibility and 2. lack of communication. These are absolutely at the heart of the issue.

It could be that your lack of compatibility is because of your lack of communication - and if you can start communicating better, who knows, you might actually become more compatible!

Lack of communication has a lot to answer for in this life.

Have you considered marriage guidance counselling? Neutral turf, objective mediation, etc....?

BarkLikeAMoose · 16/07/2015 23:05

I doubt that many people would equate masturbation with infidelity but if that's the depth of feeling involved here then that's fair enough I guess.

Do you feel that your vows are in any way compromised by the improper feelings you were developing for your colleague? You know, your DH might.

Do you plan to do him the courtesy of telling him about that? Or is omission allowed?

As opposed to emission. Smile

laurierf · 16/07/2015 23:11

can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face

You've lost respect for him and - in doing so - desire. He can still be a wonderful co-parent.

laurierf · 16/07/2015 23:19

^ by which I mean… don't prolong this marriage when you don't respect, trust or desire your partner. You acknowledge he is a great father. So co-parent rather than be stuck in an unhappy marriage for the children.

myluckystars · 17/07/2015 11:58

I'm not a Christian and don't appreciate the ethnocentric assumption. If you are fine with your husband wanking off to pictures of other women and don't see that as compromising his sexually exclusive relationship with you then fine. But in that case is a live webcam girl ok or a prostitute? After all it's not real is it? He doesn't have feelings for them does he? Men can't help their sex drives etc etc. I don't want a relationship with a man who wanks off over images of other women, period.

OP posts:
nequidnimis · 17/07/2015 12:29

But he doesn't does he? He did, once, three years ago, but not since then.

If you can't get past it then call it a day, it's just a shame you didn't realise how strongly you felt and do it earlier as now you've both wasted three years of your lives on a relationship destined to fail. Just leave so you can both be happy with more compatible people.

But a bit rich to attempt the moral high ground when you're the one with inappropriate feelings for someone else, and you don't seem to think that you need to be honest with your DH about that.

So just leave. You don't need to keep justifying or explaining your hatred of porn, I reckon we've all pretty much picked up on that now.

PegPeg · 17/07/2015 12:49

But in that case is a live webcam girl ok or a prostitute?

For me personally, there is a big difference: Using a live webcam girl, or a prostitute, involves a two-way interaction. This means there is some kind of one-to-one relationship between the two parties... and for me, that would not be acceptable.

Porn movies/images, on the other hand, are made to 'entertain' a mass audience. There is no level of actual personalisation involved at all.

The issue with porn for me is not about the relationship between the viewer and the actors (because there isn't one... at least not beyond the extent that I have a relationship with Paul Rudd, if I'm getting horny watching him take his shirt off on-screen!).

I do have an issue, however, with the misogyny generally that porn engenders, the way it (sometimes) exploits the actors and (often) reduces women to mere objects. It sucks.

I can imagine that, were I to have an issue with my partner watching it, it would not be because I consider him to be cheating; rather it would be because I'd think he isn't clever enough/is to lazy to consider the level of exploitation that goes on in the porn industry; that he hasn't made the 'right choice' and decided not to consume, and therefore perpetuate, this culture of misogyny.

...But then one starts getting into the murky issue of where one draws the line, regarding exploitation.... why is it not tolerable for him to watch porn, which exploits women sexually, yet is tolerable for him - and me - to continue to (for example) consume products which exploit people in other ways.

I mean, I buy my food from Tesco. They've been accused of exploiting their suppliers, tying them into contracts then squeezing their profit margins so tight these farmers are barely scraping a living. I make a bit of effort to buy direct from local suppliers, but I still shop at Tesco because I'm lazy. And I'm sure 99% of the people reading this do the same.

Similarly, I've bought Apple products. They have been accused of exploiting Chinese workers. But, y'know, I like using Apple products, so....

We all are (to some degree) culpable for some level of exploitation, somewhere.

Because we are all just flawed human beings.

That doesn't make the perpetuation of exploitation right, by any stretch. With more education about the realities of consumerism, and less inertia on the part of consumers everywhere, perhaps a positive difference could be made in many areas where exploitation is the means by which profit is made.

I'd encourage my partner to seek out the more non-exploitative, 'feminist' porn, but then I'd also have to be prepared to reciprocate and make more effort to consume non-exploitative products myself. And if I'm honest with myself, I'm not going to stop using Apple products, because y'know, I like them...

pocketsaviour · 17/07/2015 12:54

Just FYI, OP, the legal definition of adultery is a penis entering a vagina.

If you really feel (!) that your H's masturbation, 3 years ago, was actually him being unfaithful, I strongly suggest you finish your marriage now. You'll need to wait 2 years before you can divorce on the grounds of separation, or he could issue now for unreasonable behaviour.

What did your H say when you told him about this other man, by the way?

Jan45 · 17/07/2015 12:57

I feel the same as you Lucky.

I wonder what would happen if women used porn to the extent of some men, what would a man's take on that be I wonder....

If you can respect your partner by keeping loyal to them, including not getting your rocks off elsewhere then why can't they, it's not a need, it's a want, or I can.........not good enough in my book to accept it.

myluckystars · 17/07/2015 13:03

I don't need a legal definition thanks as this is about feelings not law. Tesco being parallel to porn is preposterous. And how delightful that some men get so worked up and enjoy a depersonalized sexual experience, personally I would have been less put off if he had developed feelings for a woman at work, at least that is remotely human whereas jacking off to some poor woman flashing her vag for cash is so misogynistic and hopeless.

OP posts:
nequidnimis · 17/07/2015 13:27

I think it's ok for you to think that watching porn is worse than developing improper feelings for an actual real person. But then, you would wouldn't you?

Your DH might feel differently though. Will you tell him about the man at work, so that he can make his own judgement on it?

Otherwise I think you might be being dishonest so that you continue benefitting from the marriage, and you wouldn't want that I'm sure.