Who gets the snip?

[feministwithtitsin]

Hi ladies (and gents)

Me and my DH have just had our 2 DC. We are both still relatively young (I am 30, DH is 29). We have both decided that 2 children is enough for us, our family is complete. I want to retrain and focus on my career in a year or so, and, although my DH probably would like more children, we have decided that 2 is enough as we would be better financially, and I would keep my sanity!

I have had 2 caesareans, the first was a nightmare as I had an infection and the recovery time was a nightmare (5 days in hospital, alot of pain etc) the second was textbook.

As we are both young, neither of us would be looking to get the snip for at least another 5 years, just to be 100% sure, as by that time out fertility would have dropped and I think it would be too disruptive to my career, and life in general, to be having a newborn after that.

So for the next 5 years, I will be on some kind of hormone contraceptive, as condoms are too much of a pain.

The question is who should get the snip? I think my DH should as I have had 2 caseareans already and the op itself is easier, he thinks I should because the risks of vascetomies scare him (long term ball pain etc)

So, mumsnet jury! What is your verdict

offred i think you are right. I think what this thread highlights is that it is still very much viewed that women have the responsibility not to 'get' pregnant, its very indulgent to men. Women have to bear the responsibility and risk, thats what i find unfair.

Posters also stating they wouldn't want a loved one to go through an operation because of them highlight this point. Its like they are saying a vascetomy is purely for me, to help me, like they are taking responsibility for something they shouldn't, or unfairly 'shouldering' my burdon. It is not. Its about securing OUR family and future.

It was the mainly/solely female posters who were implying that a man suffering a loss of sexual functioning would be awful with no irony that grated.

The decision is of course very personal to the individual. But the idea that the risk is 20% is not established. As far as I remember no-one has said men should be made to have vasectomies or that they are easy and pain free.

I just don't think the whole thing can be taken out of context which is to immediately say "no I won't consider that because it is too risky for me" when your partner has been forced to risk her health and wellbeing prior is quite selfish.

I would much prefer that I got sterilised, I definitely don't want to go through another pregnancy, and so it falls to DH. I am worried about the risks, but DH is very dismissive of them, probably because GPs are. It's all so wrong.

Oh FFS everyone, calm the fuck down!! No one should dismiss the feelings of either sex as whining, that's just pathetic bullying!

Who gets sterilized should be decided between the couple involved & it shouldn't be a "I did this, now you do that" type of discussion.

If the man doesn't want to be sterilized, he shouldn't be pressurised & guilted into doing so. It also shouldn't be an automatic response to do it because his wife/gf had their babies.

You can't make someone have an operation. And that goes for either sex!

"its very indulgent to men"

I wouldn't agree with that. Because this is an area where we are up against basic biology. Only women get pregnant.

And the principle of "my body my choice" really shouldn't be undermined for securing "OUR family and future"

And both sexes should have bodily autonomy.

I think what this thread highlights is that it is still very much viewed that women have the responsibility not to 'get' pregnant, its very indulgent to men. Women have to bear the responsibility and risk, thats what i find unfair

You know, I think I must be reading another thread, because aside from a couple, I haven't read into this thread what you have. I have seen most saying that it shouldn't be forced on him & it should be up for discussion.

Some saying that the person 100% sure should have it done. I certainly don't think the majority are saying that women should do it.

At what point have i or anyone said that it would be acceptable to pressurise or guilt someone into having an operation? Thats a huge leap to make. I have actually gone out of my way to point out that i wouldn't be pressurising or guilting him (it seems i have had to point that out numerous times unbelievably!).

I think maybe it's you that needs to calm down a tad, name. In fact, your response makes me think I've seen you on vascectomy threads before. Apologies if not.

Your post doesn't change my mind in the slightest. No, of course nobody should be forced or pressured into doing something against their will.

For me, it's very much a case of me judging and changing my opinion of a man who'd just refuse to consider it, and yes, whine about the risks. Luckily, DH isn't such a man.

For me, it's very much a case of me judging and changing my opinion of a man who'd just refuse to consider it, and yes, whine about the risks.

Yep but for me anyone of any gender whining about the risks to men with no sense of irony. As said before 'twas mainly/solely women who were grating on me in this thread.

name there have been a few posters who basically state, if i dont want to get pregnant, i should get sterilised. My point is that its a decision that should be made within a marriage, not that i should automatically get sterilised.

I simply don't believe that Essure is lower risk.

A vasectomy is done under local anaesthetic (apart from a few rare cases). Essure is done under a general, which carries greater dangers.

Essure is an internal procedure thus there is always the risk of infection, internal bleeding and damage to other organs. If the procedure fails there is an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy.

That's not to say that there are no risks to a vasectomy I just don't accept that it's higher risk than Essure.

if you don't want more kids you need to get sterilised not your DH - your protection is nothing to do with your DH.

I think the guilt/pressure is being taken as implied when you state that you think your views on "our" family/future mean that someone else shoukd consent to surgery.

You may not see that as pressure, but I certainly would.

And I do not think you surrender any part of bodily autonomy to your spouse. Indeed I would see it as writing off years of progress in changing attitudes to what is or is not acceptable in marriage.

You very much sound that you might pressurise him into it OP. I'm not sure whether you are being so vehement on here because you can be rather than RL, but it seems to me you'll be piling on the pressure. And that's not fair.

She's just saying if they don't want more she feels they should both think about it. She's not saying she thinks he should do it because she doesn't want anymore children.

Neither of them want to be sterilised now. Both of them will be looking at permanent methods in 5 years.

And she was asking other people what they think.

And she agrees that it's not something either of them should do if they aren't comfortable with it.

It's a little bit out there to start stating she's decided she is going to push him into it.

Plus I'm not sure why it is out of bounds to have a more general discussion of feelings on the subject now when this whole thing is not even on the table for another 5 years anyway!

It shouldnt be tit for tat. I would have it done, but say 'As long as you take me for a lovely weekend away' :-)

Whoever is adamant they don't want any more children is the one who gets the procedure done imho.

Essure does not require a GA.

And no-one is saying it is risk-free. Just that the risks are similar and may be lower than vasectomy.

It's not wrong to feel less about a man who jointly decided to end the joint fertility but would not even consider vasectomy. That's all anyone's been judgey about and AFAIK it's not even come up for the op.

Essure is relatively new though and AFAIK less effective and with higher risk of ectopics than tubal. Risks are generally only understood when something is regularly being done over several decades (like vasectomy has been). It isn't a proper comparison just now.

But if both partners are adamant they don't want any more children and the NHS won't sterilise women unless there's a medical need, there's not a lot of negotiating room is there?

Offred, the opening post is all about the OPs wishes not those of her Dh. She doesn't want more children. He does. She wants to stop at two because of her sanity, her career etc. It sounds like he has agreed to stop at the two dc they have, for her sake. And now she's pressurising him to have the operation to that end. It just sounds all about her to me, and very little about him.

I think you should shelve the conversation for now, OP, and revisit it in 4 1/2 years time. If it's causing friction between you, anyway.

It's just assumed that women will consider tubal is the point I think she's trying to make, because they are responsible for not getting pg. That is, when it comes down to it, only true if the woman's male partner opts out of contraception for themselves.

Ha ha ha. I think i am defending my views on here, and explaining how i feel, does that amount to pressure? How would you have such a conversation without doing so? I have also said i would consider being sterilised too, thats because of the risks he is worried of with a vascetomy. I am not minimising that, but he fact is it is a less complicated procedure than sterilisation.

And peggy your point is ridiculous, would that mean that men shouldn't have to wear condoms if the women they are having sex with doesn't wany to get pregnant, because she should be protecting herself with the pill etc?

I wouldn't get pregnant all by myself, so yes, its a joint responsibility.