Men, attraction, relationships and sex

[FolkGirl]

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago because I was considering ending things with my bf because, ultimately I am not enough for him. I'm not young enough, or slim enough or pretty enough.

I haven't ended yet because haven't had chance. I want to do it in person and I want to tell him why.

I'm ok with it now, but the reasons have been playing on my mind.

I've made no secret n here of my issues of self loathing. In short, my mother taught me to hate myself - my looks, my body, my personality, my idiosyncrasies... in fact, to this day, other than the fact try not to take any more than I need (from the world/other people/society), I cannot think of a single positive thing I could say about myself.

Now I've posted on here before because I've never been loved or cherished and, somehow, I only end up in relationships with men who don't even fancy me! I think they want to, they just don't.

I just don't get it. I mean I get that they don't fancy me, but what I don't get is that other people try and convince you that someone will. Or why other people's experiences are so different.

The bottom line is that, it doesn't matter how many times women say "men who like women like women" or "not all men like skinny women" both on here amd in rl, the message I consistently get from men is that I'm unattractive and not slim enough.

This message comes in the form of - losing interest after seeing me naked; constantly looking at/commenting on/becoming aroused by slimmer more attractive women when I don't have the same effect; actually commenting on the fact I'm not slim
or pretty enough.

I'm 5'3" and wear size 12/14 clothes so, no, I'm not slim. But I'm not 'huge' either.

Not really sure what I'm asking really. I suppose, why do people say that men aren't that bothered about skinny women and it's not all about looks (both of which I've believed in my 2.5yrs of being single) when the verbal and non verbal feedback I've had from all men is that they are. Is ita lie women tell themselves/each other just to feel better? Does anyone actually believe it?

There are only a couple of people irl who know how I feel, so I certainly don't go around being miserable and moany about this. I'm not going to reveal my weaknesses to everyone! Who/where are these men who don't expect a woman to look like a model?

Of course it's ok to have a little cry! Sorry you are sad. Did you tell him why you ended it?

Yes. I told him that I find him staring at young women disrespectful to me and them, and that I felt he was keeping me around until someone better came along.

He replied. He said that he was sad i felt like that. He apolgised if I felt he was disrespectful and that whilst he admitted 'acknowledging' other people, he wasn't aware of 'staring'.

He said he had seen us as a long term thing and that he thinks I am beautiful and he has loved spending time with me and had been looking forward to a future with me.

He did say he thinks I won't be happy until I address how I feel about myself. He said I won't be happy with anyone until I learn to accept that I am 'enough'. I think he's right about that.

Every fibre of me wants to tell him that I've changed my mind. But I know that once the initial elation passed, I'd only want to end it again.

I'm just so alone. I don't have anyone. Friends only go so far. I don't have anyone I can lean on or whatever. I don't have any family. I'm just so alone. I hate myself so much that I don't even have myself.

It's all just so scary and hostile. I feel I'm throwing away something that could have been perfect but for this one thing.

I feel so sad and alone. And I'm acutely aware that there's no point me even trying again with anyone else until I've sorted myself out and that could take years.

It's not even just this, it's the whole of life. I just feel like such an abject failure.

He said I am enough for him, I just don't believe it.

Please don't slag him off. I don't think he's bad. I'm just so very sad and confused. I'm just tired of hating myself and feeling so worthless.

And it's Saturday night and I'm in my pjs on the sofa crying into a cup of tea.

Ok. So he made the point that you need to address your insecurity. That's correct, you really do.

But it doesn't mean that his ogling is acceptable. Not respectful to you or them, you're right there.

If he cared at all, he'd have noticed you're an insecure person, and have made an effort to reign in his roving eye to a discreet level. Not be rubbernecking.

Actually I think your self respect is fairly high. You saw this behaviour, called it out for what it was, and told him it's not good enough. That's strong. That's not what a feeble woman would do.

If he cared at all, he'd have noticed you're an insecure person, and have made an effort to reign in his roving eye to a discreet level. Not be rubbernecking.

Yes, that's what I've told myself over and over.

I just wonder if I'll ever feel secure enough for a relationship

Radical notion, but what if you don't have a relationship?
There might be other options for you.

You write intelligently, you're obviously a solvent person. Work abroad? Travel, research, that kind of thing?

Actually I think your self respect is fairly high. You saw this behaviour, called it out for what it was, and told him it's not good enough. That'sstrong. That's not what a feeble woman would do.

Thanks. I don't feel strong though, I just feel like I couldn't bear living with those feelings of insecurity. End result is the same though. And at least I won't be feeling like it tomorrow too.

We had so many plans for the summer. We really did just fit together so well.

Why did he have to be such a cliche? At tge risk of sounding a bit childish, it's not fair!!

It's not fair, no.

What a twit he is.

I've read your whole thread and have found it really sad. You sound like such a nice person and you make great contributions to other threads. Sorry you are upset. Tbh I think a lot of the problem was your insecurity and you must work on that. He was sometimes insensitive but he seemed to genuinely really be into you. The car incident - are you sure he wasn't checking out the car rather than the driver,? However my boundaries are pretty shit as far as relationships go so don't take my advice and I think loneliness has meant I have accepted more crap than I should have but as humans are mainly social animals it's understandable. Sorry I'm waffling. I hope you have something planned for tomorrow.

Gilbert it's a nice idea! I don't really have the funds for travel and I have 2 children, one due to start 6th form, so it's tricky.

But I agree that a relationship is probably not something i should be thinking about.

Ultimately, I think I'm probably good enough to attract someone initially, but don't have the qualilties necessary to sustain a relationship anyway. I can't compete with all other women. I don't know how other people do it!

Because it's not a competition. Otherwise only the top 1-5% of perfectly symmetrical people would be in relationships. And you know that isn't the case.

Thank you, Charley. No, definitely not the car. I've asked myself that, but it was a pretty unremarkable car.

I think perhaps he was genuinely into me. But I also think I just wasn't quite 'enough'. Which is a recurring problem. That's the bit where I don't understand how other people do it. What is it about them that makes them 'enough'?

It's what I mean about thinking I'm enough to attract someone in the first place, it does happen occasionally, but that I'm not enough to sustain someone's interest long term.

I'm late to this thread but I was reading it last night and didn't get a chance to comment.
You have rightly pulled this partner up on his shoddy behave but I would say that generally being aware of other attractive people doesn't mean you aren't attracted to your partner still or don't choose them above others. (Blatant ogling is vile though).
A relationship is built upon many different things isn't it? It's a bit arrogant almost to say you don't choose your partner on looks but that they do. I don't think your insecurities are hidden because you simply cannot present yourself as a happy and confident woman ready for dating with the amount of self-loathing you have.
I often think some of the bookish types have watched too many teen movies or Woody Allen movies where the geek gets the head cheerleader or supermodel and then think they are entitled to a woman far more attractive than them who they presume they can patronise and talk down to. Give other types a chance!
You haven't met the right person or people yet but it isn't because you are unloveable.
You are loveable FolkGirl.

*behaviour

bleeding you're right. In hus reply he told me that he'd been feeling unsecure with me because he could sense me pulling away and withdrawing.

I had no idea I was doing this. At least not noticeably so.

He said he wasn't looking around for someone better and he does really like me. But I can't put him, myself or anyone else through this, can I?

He hasn't had many relationships and I think his ex was quite confident and straightforward. I don't think he knows/knew what to make of it. I'm just broken.

And if course, I do notice looks, but I meant I don't go for looks or 'good looking' men or whatever. I like particular features or quirky/interesting looking men. I like it when someone becomes physically attractive the better you get to know them.

Folk, I see you as a very strong woman who actually knows what she wants, will not compromise and is not afraid to dump if others do not meet your standards. So many people compromise and stay in relationships because they are scared to be alone or have weak boundaries. You clearly do not. That should be praised and not dismissed. You just have not found someone who meets what you want. Lots of us have not on here. Good luck.

FolkGirl, I am so sorry, it is always painful breaking up with someone..BUT please dont second guess yourself here.
I agree, that ending it for the reasons you have is the act of a woman with some self respect.
Unless the thngs you have said are totally invented he DID gawp at young women a lot, he DID make lots of comments about "settling" for someone his own age.
Yes, you are insecure, but that is hardly gonna help is it?
He still sounds like a knob to me, sorry. He has put it all on you-its all about your "problem" not his immature and rude behavior.
Fuck that.
No, a decent man isn't going to magically solve your issues, but it would be a start for you to be with someone who doesn't actively feed them.

Pick yourself up, do something nice for yourself this week, and leave this loser in your dust, you can do better.

IfNotNowThenWhen +1

itwill thanks. I hope you're right. I do worry that I am oversensitive though and that my perception of the situation might be different to someone elses. So someone else might not have interpreted his actions as severely as I did. But then I think that that doesn't really matter. If it made me feel bad, even if it were all me and none him, then it still wasn't right. And I don't want to be responsible for making someone else feel insecure either. That's no good.

IfNot he didn't say he'd 'settled'. That was my word, but I think that's what he was getting at. He said it had been quite hard coming to terms with the idea that he wasn't going to get a 25 yo any more and that he'd realised he'd realistically look at someone older. Or something like that.

To be honest, even if I've got him all wrong, the very fact I got him all wring and interpretted everything in the way I did is an issue.

I said I wanted someone who thinks I'm amazing and 'enough' and I didn't feel I was that for him. He said I was and that he would accept it if it wasn't right for me but it wasn't fair of me to end things based on what I thought he was thinking.

But then he was looking.

I don't know. Maybe I've just thrown away the one relationship that could have worked and the one man who could have loved me.

But I don't want to feel like someone's interest in me is dependent on there not being anyone more interesting to look at in the vicinity.

Just so sad and weary if it all. But I also know that in about 3 days time, I will start to feel more attractive and confident again because that's how it works

I feel quite confident and attractive when I'm single and insecure hideous when I'm not. It's shit.

On a positive note, I have lost 4lb over the past 3 weeks.

If I thought the one relationship that would work for me was with an ageing actor who habitually ogled young girls, I'd give up now.

Save up all the money you would had spent on dating - cinemas, eating out, excursions etc - spend it on some good therapy.

You can find a way to accept yourself and make peace with yourself. For people like who have had damaging experiences it does take work, but it's supremely worth doing.

I agree with IfNot. He has basically gaslighted you like i thought he would saying the issues are ALL your fault. They are not. Some of it is down to his behaviour. Hes BLATENTLY ogled other younger women in front of you (while on a date with you FFS) and he may not have used the word "settled" but thats what he was getting at. Hes an arse and you deserve better.