Just found evidence

[ExitStrategyHelp]

Now what?

It's too late for a conversation - long day in the office for both of us.

Unfortunately his loved-up texts (and sex talk) went to DS2's iPad. He is confused. I am angry although not as hurt as you might expect as I am not surprised.

Sigh. I don't have the energy for this….

Do you even love him OP?

Oh, I see counselling as an opportunity to air our respective stances on the problem and clarify in our own minds where we want to go with this. NOT a repair job.

I know I can 'forgive' him, not sure I can spend my life with him. 2 different things IMO.

Do I love him? No idea.
I don't like him very much just now.

He wanted to have a wife and a mistress for 4 years. If he is asked to leave it is true that he may try to replace the wife by exchanging the op for the mistress but then remember that old adage about the vacancy...

I'd only be interested in a man who wanted ME to be his wife not A Woman to provide wife services.

And that really is why some people have those 'partner doesn't understand me' affairs then try to carry on with the relationship without accepting blame... Because they are essentially entitled losers who are looking always for how they can satisfy their own desires/needs and don't consider the other people they chew up in the process.

Just see them primarily not as people to relate to, but as a source of self-satisfaction.

So your marriage was failing for a long time.

Did he try to talk to you about it?

Were you just all caught up in the melee of young children etc?

It's such a betrayal though. I don't know how one recovers trust after that. I am struggling to trust my h. He had an emotional affair with some bint and he too had flagged up for years he was miserable with the status quo.

I wish they would just leave instead of having affairs. Leaving would be a clean sharp shock for everyone and force reconsidering for everyone instead of involving random slappers that pop up.

Hugs to you op

You really don't sound like you like him and haven't for some time.

I don't know how you get past this.

He felt lonely? With his mistress at work who he buys presents for and has nights away with and his wife at home (and work) who brings up his four kids. Poor fella. Life must be awful for him.

The thing is you don't want sex with him any more - I don't see how you can get past that at all. The forgiveness is a totally separate issue I think.

And a 4 year affair due to his loneliness - well that is just blaming you and foul. If he was lonely and unhappy he should have left you years ago.

Exit my story is similar.

Almost 4 yrs ago I found out by accident that my husband had been having an affair for 6 yrs. It was mostly emotional (long distance as we had moved a couple of times over the course of it) but as many snatched weekends etc as they could manage.

For us, it was much the same as you - we had grown apart due to having kids and life getting in the way, I was lonely (he wasn't, he had an adoring sap on tap who hung around for 6 yrs believing the shit he was spinning).
When I found out, it was like something that had been eluding me had clicked into place,and I realised that I had always known in some way, I had just been utterly blind to it.

I made him phone her in front of me and tell her I knew, and that he was finishing with her.
I kicked him out then and there and said I wanted one thing from him which he owed me, and that was that he wouldn't run off to hers (we lived within an hour away again by that point), and he wouldn't contact her - not until we had had a chance to talk ourselves without the kids there.
He agreed and did just that; the next 3 or 4 days we talked and shouted and dug up every sordid thing (weekends away, unexplained late nights etc - that's when I realised I had always really known, somewhere deep down, tbh).

The OW grew increasingly hysterical and nasty over the following week of no contact, and deployed every manipulative trick in the book - including phoning me to tell me every shitty little detail and to tell me that every time he had left me, he only went back because of the kids (he had never left me once btw, that was the lies he had told her, the lies go two ways), I told her he'd never left me once, and that I had kicked him out and she was welcome to him, she had 'won' her prize, I didn't want him.
This sent her over the edge as he had been no contact with her, so he had made his priorities known at that point as far as I was concerned - he had been honest with me for the first time in 6 yrs (re the no contact).

Over the next month we talked more honestly than we ever had, about everything - the mutual unhappiness and loneliness within the marriage, what had gone wrong and when, and I consistently shut down any notion that he was not entirely responsible for his own penis; I was hard-lined about the fact that he was responsible for his own actions, no one forced him into anything; he had made choices and he had to own them.

I told him that there were 3 choices,and only he could make the choice:

1. He wanted to be with OW
2. He wanted to be with me
3. He wanted to separate and be single

I promised that I wouldn't use the kids as a weapon and he would have joint custody etc, and I would keep things as amicable as poss if he chose to leave; I also told him that if he chose me, he would have to prove himself and I would make my choice as to whether I wanted him when I was ready - and I could not guarantee that I wanted him.

He chose me, and spent the next 6 months doing what he should have been doing for the previous 6 yrs - putting me and the kids first, and giving us 100% of his attention and energy.
After 6 months I agreed to try again, and we started marriage counselling - it was tough but we were both brutally honest with each other, which was key I think.

Anyway, as with a pp, we are now nearly 4 yrs on and we are still together. It is a different marriage to before, but it is good - it is better I think - I understand how he ticks and he does me, more than we ever did previously.

The affair is something that happened, but it doesn't define things - it was a convenient 'out' for a selfish man who valued his feelings and needs above those of his wife and children; an available woman, who was willing to devote all her energies toward pandering his ego made it possibe - if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else.
It is all so predictable, boring and tedious - yet it causes actual physical pain to the people it affects, and the mental & emotional battering are horrendous.

All I can offer you is my story, , and my sympathy and empathy.
You will do whatever is right for you, and you will regain your old self - it will all come right eventually for you, whether together with or separate from your husband.
This is not a reflection of you, you did not cause it; he alone is responsible for his shitty actions, (and similarly the OW is responsible for her actions, she is a grown woman who knew what she was doing too - she did not make him do anything, but at the same time she was a willing participant in deceit).

Whatever happens, my thoughts are with you - best of luck with whatever you decide to do. You have the power now, you dictate the outcome.

Just to add, although I chucked him out, he was home all the time - he just slept elsewhere (he had a rented room).
I agree with kittens about becoming separated by default if you go down the access route immediately - I wanted him to remain as engaged with the kids & 'family life' as poss.

Something very similar happened to me 6 months ago. A message to OW was sent to wrong device, but thankfully without the gory details. I had the same passive aggressive response, and he still refuses to engage with a meaningful discussion. He's admitted it though.

DD knows nothing. Yet.

I'm still here, in the house (not mine-his) and he's shitting himself that I'm going to say something to dd that will spoil her Disneyfied vision of him. It's quite good in a way because I've got the upper hand now, and he's squirming like a worm on a fishing rod.

Retaining dignity in the face of this has been hard. However I've gathered my friends and family around me and forming an exit strategy. I don't care how long it takes. The longer he squirms, the better imo.

Please be strong and, remember, there's no need to rush into anything. You've got 18 years together behind you and 4 kids together. Make your decisions but make them to suit you and the kids, not him. He's not worth it, really.

VT, and that is how if both parties want it and are willing to put the effort in is how a marriage gets saved after something like this.

OP, if you decide you want to try and save things and your husband does not do every single thing you need, walk away

although I think you should carefully read cola's post too. Some women can simply not get past the humiliation and lies and that is ok too.

Exit, it sounds like you've got your head screwed on and have the right attitude to counselling.

I'm shocked that he's blaming you, when you've been lonely too and haven't fallen on some other man's nob, that's really not acceptable. Also, I'd be very wary of his ability to stay away from OW if you decide to stay in your marriage. 4 years on and off suggests that at some point one or both of them has tried to do the right thing, but they're incapable of staying away from each other long term. Her enjoyment of their relationship time suggests she is more than just a port in a storm.

Whatever you decide to do, I think you will be fine, you sound like you've detached enough to know you can make it on your own if that's what YOU decide to do.

yup, and 4 years isn't an "affair" it's a relationship

one that he has giving priority to at the expense of your marriage and precious family time....very hard to forgive that

been

I'm afraid the 4 years thing would be the final nail in the coffin for me

The other nails being his lack of remorse, his trying to blame you, and his lack of concern for your son.

It sounds like you know what you need to do. You know what you want to do. You just need to screw up your courage and act

Op, I am going to offer a different perspective to the usual mn script as real life rarely plays out as it is portrayed on here. I believe there are two very different type of affairs. I am going to be gender stereotypical and refer to the husband cheating on the wife (because I am old and it's easier for me to form my thoughts that way !) but I believe this happens in exactly the same way for either gender. The first is the classic entitled man who has it all and sees more/better/younger and sees no reason not to have what he wants.min this scenario the wife will have no reason to believe the marriage is in peril. The husband plays the part, fully engaged parents and husband, regular sex life etc etc. the affair comes as a bolt from the blue from a 'player' who gets caught. He will justify it, rewrite his marriage as troubled for a long time and leave for what he believes to be a better bet. There is another type of affair, I call it affair by default. It happens easily when the wife has children and concentrates all her energy and emotions into child rearing, often (unintentionally) cutting the spouse out of much involvement. - it's her 'job'. Most commonly when husband is working full time and mother works pt or sahm. The marriage moves into two different camps, her and children - him and work. The separation becomes more obvious when the sex life dwindles, eventually the wife loses all interest in sex usually due to sheer exhaustion with the child/home care and it simply becomes to much effort to bother and even more effort to kick start it again. At this stage the husband is usually ripe for 'affair by default' . The ow will usually be someone with pretty low self esteem, desperate for a relationship and none too picky with who. She will shower him with the attention he has missed and provide the sex he wants with his wife but cannot ask for. - (how can he bring himself to talk about it when she is exhausted for caring for his children ?). The reality with this type of affair is that there is a way back, the ow is simply a 'filler'. It's a very unpopular notion on mn but men do actually have emotional and sexual needs. Some are completely crap at communicating those needs to their wives. Some wives see exactly what's going on (or in ops case have a fairly passive idea) but are slightly relieved as the lack of sex pressure has gone and they have moved into comfortable friendly parenting mode. In these cases there is a way back, if both are willing to accept mistakes have been made on BOTH sides. The usual stuff about him doing everything you want to work his way to forgiveness will not work in this case. You both have to want it to work and you both have to start caring about each other's emotional needs. Counselling is a good start but not the be all end all. Counsellors cannot make you care for each other if you don't but they may be able to teach you how to communicate your mutual needs if you do. OP, I reiterate my belief that to chuck him out will not improve matters in anyway. You need to spend more time not less with each other - if you want to fix it. That of course is still your prerogative but as someone who has been in both this type of marriage and the OW I can tell you it is fixable, the ow is actually as inconsequential as you want her to be.

kittens I'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish. Nobody has an affair "by default" like it just happens automatically with nobody having any choice. Like it's an accident.

Having an affair doesn't happen by default. It happens when someone makes a conscious decision (or series of decisions) to deceive their partner

If the marriage is over, a decent person doesn't have an affair "by default". They address the problems and act like a decent human being. Not stick their knob into someone else for 4 years. FOUR YEARS!!!!

And as for the part about the poor husband feeling unloved because their wife is busy with house / kids. What a load of tosh, blaming the injured party.

In fact, are you sure you're not the OP's husband?

No a bit outofpractice I am not the OP husband but as OP has said herself, this is not a surprise. I am sorry to shatter the illusion but not all women/wives are perfect in anyway that men aren't but we all whatever sex need attention, love and most want sex. If it is not available eventually it will be found elsewhere. Men will often not leave their wives because unlike a women who has an affair - the man will almost always also lose their children. It is unfortunately the way things go. As for the boohoo poor man, his wife didn't understand him. Yes it's cliched and sad but none the less true. I have been married for 25 yrs to a man who's wife didn't understand him. I know countless marriages that have broken up because the woman channelled 110% of their lives emotion and love into their children and cut their husbands out emotionally. I did exactly this until we could not find our way back to each other. It is not PC or part of the mn script but it happens.

Thank you again everybody for all your thoughts, particularly Vanilla and bugger

I don't disagree with kitten, I do think it's an active decision (or decisions) have or not have an affair, but getting to that point of feeling vaguely unloved or unappreciated can happen gradually - I know that's what happened to me. And yes, our dynamic changed totally with the arrival of DC - I had not really realised how needy H had been before he had to share or relinquish my love and attention to small people.

I don't give the smallest of shits who the OW is. I may have a name and an idea what her role is - they may well still see each other at work, there is nothing I can do about that. He made a choice to have a relationship with her, he now has a choice how to go forward. He's an adult, I am not his keeper. I am going to carve my own way, and he may or may not be part of that.

I am going to stay at a friend's tonight.

BOF and AF, thank you both for being in my corner, and I am the injured party here, but accept that I have been accepting of our stale marriage for much longer than the relationship with OW has been going on.

I don't think that I 'cut him out' as much as that I was just bloody knackered all the time. Motherhood hit me like a bus and there were many aspects of it I did not like and struggled with. A lot.

It is quite ironic that now that there are no more babies in the house, this comes to light.