BF; Treats me beautifully but doesn't 'do' emotions or emotional talk

[goodcompany2]

He's been a great work friend for years, then a stop start casual date for a few months then a 'proper' out in the open boyfriend for 9 months. He treats me respectfully, thoughtfully, kind and is very affectionate. Our sex life is the best ever and we both have been around the block a few times so know a good thing when we find it. There shouldn't be any problems, we don't argue, respect personal space, share expenses, have same sense of humour and personal values. Yet I am driving myself nuts with wondering how to cope with his lack of verbal emotions.

I fessed up to being smitten after a few months and then to loving him a few months back. He has been honest from start & reckons he's never been in love (has ex wife/GF's and kids) so he doesn't say it back. If pushed/cornered he will say stuff like what would you prefer someone who treats you 'like a princess' or someone who just says it? He's right I feel cherished on a daily basis but want to have conversation about 'us', the future, hopes and ambitions etc but he lives for the moment and avoids such talk politely or just resorts to joking.

Think I need to get some perspective please.

Just read to the end of the thread and it seems entirely possible that he doesn't know what love is and is, at the same time, terrified of the word. He is doing love if you know what I mean and only you know if you can live without the actual words.

Why do you think it is your problem to wade through and unpick his issues?

He has issues.

The issues are making you unhappy.

He is happy with how things are and has no intention of doing anything differently.

You are very dangerously already planning and hoping for a future with him which he has told you is not going to happen and you are falling into a trap of agonizing over how to fix the issues in your relationship with each other which are actually caused by his issues over 'love'.

If he really doesn't 'do' love basically your entire relationship and all the things that you are viewing as loving behaviour are a complete fantasy and as is classic with selfish and controlling men who seem to think it is acceptable to conduct a relationship entirely on their own terms, you are feeling the urge to diagnose the problem and fix it/him. Fact is he gets exactly everything that he wants and he doesn't have to give anything back and he thinks this is OK.

He has already told you in great detail how he treated his ex wife badly. He has cleverly packaged it in a 'I was a bastard' gold diamante wrapping paper to disarm you and allow him to continue being a selfish bastard. Beware. He is either an insecure man who is already comfortable with treating you (and other women) badly so long as he is happy because of his issues or he is a completely manipulative and calculated intelligent abuser with no respect for women.

I mean come on?! A man who had a long marriage and who has had more than one other relationship, has been with you 9 months and has never been in love? Does that sound normal or plausible to you? He's either unwilling or unable to be vulnerable and although he may understand and articulate that he thinks it is wrong to string women along he doesn't think it is wrong enough to actually stop doing it.

a man who can 'love' his children but not his partner is a man who has a deep seated need for total control. A man who cannot/does not love his children is not a man who should have children or a partner and who has serious issues.

There are probably lots of posters who think you should park your feelings/needs in order to be a Cool Girlfriend and not drag him down with your uncool 'demands' for love but really if he feel it is necessary at this stage of your relationship to emulate loving behaviour why does he think it is OK to not 'do' love and who the fuck does he think he is telling you 'it could be worse I could not love AND treat you like shit so be happy with what you have'?

It's such a headfuck, it really is and if I were you his behaviour would be making me insecure and affecting my self-worth. I'd be questioning everything, wondering how he could be capable of faking the behaviour so effectively with no feelings to back it up and what else he was capable of...

I don't think lots of posters do think that, Offred. I personally think OP should walk away and not do the 'love me, tell me' dance she's playing around and around in her head. I think she has no business trying to sort him out at all.

You are going to be dancing around making everything about him before you realise it. Hoping if you do xyz you will be the one that he finally falls for etc.

Sorry for the multiple posts, it just makes me so angry! I've been with a guy like this, tough childhood and genuine issues that lead to the behaviour but none of that was my fault and it just got worse over time. Fact is it's his problem to deal with and it's common for this type of man to say 'well this is how I am' and expect that to absolve them of any kind of responsibility for their treatment of other people IMO/E

If someone asked me if I had been in love I wouldn't include my children in that. I love my children, I'm not in love with them. He does love his children doesn't he op because if he doesn't that would be really worrying.

Oh dear I feel a bit like this. DH is very emotional and open but I find verbalising very difficult. I don't why. Its like words are a contract. I want to put caveats and qualifications in place. I'm a person with lots of thoughts and actions but very few meaningful words.

On the plus side we've been happily (mostly!) together for nearly 20 years.

Offred

Why is it that whenever a man doesn't do what you tell him to do, he's being controlling? [hmmm] Nobody is chaining the OP to a bed. He's clearly quite an emotionally damaged individual and she is deciding if it's a dealbreaker for her.

He hasn't actually done anything wrong. He's not controlling or evil. He is what he is. Not everything men are is about women, you know. They are actually capable of having internal thoughts and feelings that aren't about the woman lying next to them. Big shock, I know.

I don't want to sound OTT here, but I'd say someone who can't feel love, but can act in a way to make you feel like a princess sounds a bit like someone who wants to manipulate and control you. I'd almost say it sounds sociopathic.

blah blah blah hairy armpitted man-hating feminist yeah...

It's not about men it's about this man.

About this man's behaviour towards the OP and other women she is aware of.

Not everything a person says about one man can be extrapolated to all men - shock I know! Perhaps if I had mean't all men I would not have mentioned 'controlling and selfish' before 'man'...

Some men treat women badly... shock I know...

also what the hell are you on about with the feeling the need to explain to me that men are people with feelings? how is that relevant to anything this thread is about a man who claims to not need, want or feel feelings and refuses to discuss that as an issue. What part of you feels that is normal or OK for someone who has chosen to have a relationship with another human?

I think you need to have a good old chat about what the word/verb 'to love' is. Most of us would say things like someone who you care deeply for, would put their happiness first because of those feelings, would want to be part of your life forever and you find yourself often thinking about them and wanting to do nice things for them. And various variations of that.
So what the hell does he think love is? And if he can verbalise what he thinks love is then why is he doing some of those things while saying he doesn't love or isn't capable of love. Either he's faking it or he's capable of love but in some screwed up way thinks that by not labelling it love he won't get hurt.
Either scenario you can't fix - the only person that can do that is himself. As with so many things I read about on here - he needs to recognise there's an issue and want to fix it himself. You can tie yourself up in knots trying to fix him or wait for him to change but it won't work unless he wants to genuinely change an aspect of himself.

He's not sociopathic. I married one of those unfortunately and I am wise to that personality trait. Neither is he manipulative, he seems genuinely bewildered by and resigned to his lack of emotions. The word Princess is an odd one but it's one he used once. He absolutely doesn't control me. Nights out with friends and the boys from my quiz team happen. He hates social chit chat stuff so either elects not to see me those nights or offers himself up as taxi for the night. Last time I was picked up at a time of my choosing (after midnight) and presented with a home cooked meal he'd made. Me- I was too drunk to eat much then to my disgrace was sick and pee'd myself! Hardly the princess. He just cleaned up, tucked me into bed and indulged in some teasing the next day. Not a word said about it since, no recriminations or nastiness, just did I have fun and he's on hand to taxi again if I want him too, just please don't ask him to join in the night out as he hates social chat. LOL.

We went on separate hols last year though he has asked me to join him this year but no pressure, I get to choose. Today he's at parents working on car. We've text at least 10 times. We text a 'good morning' every day and a 'night night' too! When he shops he asks if I need anything & vice versa.

I'd have to say actions speak louder than words. I'd rather the actions. Words are meaningless when the actions say otherwise. At his age too I'd suggest he has baggage and that makes people have barriers some they cannot control. You have to weigh up what is more important does he make you feel loved? I'd so id say that should be enough ....

Your standards are very low. Or mine are very high! I don't think anything that you've just listed makes him sound particularly affectionate.

But that wasn't what I was going to say. I agree that you need to talk to him about what love is, and what exactly he isn't feeling.

His first relationship sounds chaotic. He was forced into it through pregnancy, he was unfaithful throughout, his children resulted from it. If he also had emotionally abusive parents, it may be worth him exploring counselling to see if it can help him filter through some of his emotions and stop seeing them as bad things that need to be blocked off.

You need to know what you can expect from him, though. Is he feeling nothing at all? Is he attached to you as a friend but nothing more? Does he feel lust? Exactly how does he see you, in his head? Because you don't want to grow more and more attached to him, and then him pull away all of a sudden and tell you that he warned you he didn't feel anything. The previous cheating would bother me, too, but that's probably a personal thing.

I wouldn't be happy with this. I'd feel that he was hiding part of himself - if he doesn't feel anything, I'm not interested, if he does, he needs to be able to vocalise it, or at least take some proper steps towards being able to vocalise it. I can see too much potential for getting hurt leaving things as they are.

but he isn't going to do anything about it?

I didn't mean he is necessarily overtly controlling towards you necessarily but that from what you've said it indicates a compulsion to have total control over the relationship which usually indicates a hurt someone is not willing to deal with and ultimately means their partners suffer. Something he has recognised at least in his behaviour with his ex wife... but he still does not feel he needs to do something about it?

He feels entitled to pass the suffering on to his partner rather than deal with his issue. At the very least he should not attempt a relationship at the worst he is clever with his manipulative controlling behaviour and feels entitled to pass on the suffering because he sees women as less than him, for whatever reason...

Still, it isn't you who has issues. It's him. He can't actually expect to just dump an ultimatum of 'I'm not capable of a proper relationship and won't deal with it' and leave your only option to be put up with it or break up with him. That's not OK. Neither is making you feel like it is your problem.

Offred - spot on, think he is emotionally repressed/damaged but can't decide if it's a deal breaker. Right now it's not but may be in the long run I guess. Trouble is he really is otherwise almost perfect for me. I'm looking for someone who has 'everything I need but not necessarily everything I want'. Can't decide if words are or should be a deal breaker when everything else is so good.

Sounds like I'm looking at him with rose tinted glasses but I'm not trust me. We have spent every working day for years in a small office together so know each other's moods, faults, triggers and weaknesses all too well. Just know that I can live with them and he still seems to like me immensely knowing what an untidy, emotionally verbal, sometimes highly antisocial and noisy person I am. I can say the equivalent of 'I've had enough people time, now bog off and leave me alone for a few hours so I can read/watch crap TV/sleep' and he just gets that it's not about him, it's about me needing space etc He can do it to me too without me wondering what I've said or done, it's just him needing time out. We're good friends first.

PS did I mention the sex is great???/emo/te/2.gif

If this was a man you'd all be saying past relationships and baggage. Give it time. That's what this needs. And the amount of affection he shows would be too much for me. A partnership is about more than words. My ex loves me he never told me only once. But his actions always spoke volumes and I didn't need to hear the words. The words I love you are just bandied about far too much and become meaningless without the actions.

and you have basically reproduced verbatim the situation an IDVA described as the beginning of a relationship with a controlling abuser and how women get sucked in feeling like they have a prince to someone I was with the other day who struggled to understand how people get into and sty in relationships with abusers.

The offering lifts, the not liking to chat with your friends...

I think you definitely are unhappy with it and it is obviously up to you how much of an issue it is for you personally. I would definitely be OK with this type of relationship right now because actually I do not feel I would ever like to live with or be really committed to anyone. I'm aware that might change and so would not ever say to my BF that I was not capable of having that kind of relationship ever. I think that's the difference. He is resigned to this being the absolute truth for now and the future and you have been together 9 months and are started to think about when you might live together (albeit a long time in the future). I think you do want to be loved as well as shown love. He may actually feel love and just have issues about saying it or allowing himself to recognise he feels it but he's expecting you to put up with half a relationship right now because he won't deal with his issues.

also what the hell are you on about with the feeling the need to explain to me that men are people with feelings? how is that relevant to anything this thread is about a man who claims to not need, want or feel feelings and refuses to discuss that as an issue. What part of you feels that is normal or OK for someone who has chosen to have a relationship with another human?

It's fairly obvious that he has responded to parental abuse by shutting down emotionally. If someone is like that, it's totally fine not to have a relationship with them. That is what the OP is deciding.

I don't think it makes them controlling or "not normal". Your language is horrible. He feels "entitled" to pass on suffering to his partner. Wtf. So every single abused person who doesn't resolve every issue before getting into a relationship is "entitled"? Let's be clear: I'm an abuse survivor and that means certain things are not ok with me and that makes me incompatible with some men. I'm not entitled. Getting psychologically healthy is hard and he hasn't managed it. That does not make him abusive.

The OP has said over and over that she doesn't think he's manipulative or sociopathic. And honestly, it makes no difference. If she's not happy, she shouldn't stay. The OP seems smart and is asking all the right questions. You don't have to try to turn him into an abuser to help give her justification to leave.

I can't do emoticons! That was supposed to be a smiley. Think he may actually prefer women to men and hold women is higher esteem. Certainly not a misogynist. I actually wonder whether I have the control. Think he will be there for me until I decide I can't compromise and end it. He looked shocked at the thought I was wondering if talking the L word would cause us to split up.

Think counselling a great idea for future but too soon yet. I'm in love with the man but am going slow in day to day stuff. I've been burned too often, Plus this dating stuff is actually more fun than cohabiting I've found out late in life. We have concert tickets bought for end of June and again in October, so we are planning ahead in our own gentle way.

If it was a man I'd be saying virtually the same tbh. There is not so much of a problem with ingrained gendered abuse of men by women so that would actually alter some of what I would say but if it was a man seeking advice the principle points would remain the same. His female partner had issues she needed to deal with before being in a relationship or is actually just ingrained in a sense of entitlement which means she feels men are lesser and this is not a relationship which he should be in.