would you end a fledgling relationship over this?

[FolkGirl]

I've been seeing someone for about 3 months. A couple of weeks ago i was unsure if I should end it over my own insecurities for his sake. I tried to, he became upset and persuaded me that I need to take a chance on another person at some point and that he was only interested in me. I'm going to preface this with the tired description of him as a really sweet guy, loads of friends close to his family, very respectable yada yada that I know means nothing.

So a couple of conversations/throwaway comments over the last week have made me question things. Again.

My boundaries are a bit shit, so I'm trying to work on those and it's finding the balance between, "you deserve better than that" and "fgs, FG, he's only human!".

So...

A comment that when he and his wife were still together, he and a couple of his friends/colleagues really fancied a very attractive woman at work and they used to flirt with/talk about her (I can imagine what was said). Basically, being a bit lechy. He said they were all in relationships so there was no intent there. And when they realised just how much younger she was, it felt a bit wrong. "Just harmless banter" though. Just feels very disrespectful to the young woman and his wife, although sthe woman flirted too. We all flirt at work a little, but it just felt a bit seedy. Timescales wise this would have been about 3 years ago. But he will still meet a lot of new young very attractive women. It goes with the job. Not sure I want to be with someone who is looking and flirting that openly.

In same conversation, he said it was hard letting go of wanting to be with a young (e.g. 25 yo) woman. He's early 40s. He said that (before meeting me, of course...) he had to remind himself that that attractive young woman he'd just seen wouldn't be interested so he had to look at older women seriously instead. I kind of feel like I've been 'settled for' because he's realised he can't do any better and get the sort of woman he wants anymore (which is one of my big hang ups because I was told that was all I'd ever be good for).

There are a couple of other little things that just don't sit quite right with me. But I don't know if that's just me and I have impossibly unrealistic expectations, or what!

So if this were you, what would you do?

Am I being unrealistic?

Just. That's what it was like to begin with. I felt completely at ease from the very start. But clearly it wasn't to last.

I that's when I start wondering to what extent the issue only exists in my head.

But the comments and the looking. That's not in my head. I've watched it.

Yes, it should last more then three months!! DH and I have been together for 19 years and we are still very happy.

Get out of this non relationship and start giving your heart to things that deserve it - friends, a pet, yourself.

Thanks all. I think I'm going to slow it right down. Like I said, we're both busy over the next 4-6 weeks anyway. I'm going to think about it.

I thinkmI'm erring on the side of ending it just because it's not making me happy so what's the point.

Thanks.

FG You've already had some great advice from pp and I can't offer any more than has already been said. However, there is a lovely thread about what some MNers in their 50s and 60s would say to their 40 year old selves here that I think you should read! There are some lovely words there that will give you a bit of perspective.

You are worth so much more. x

Thanks, 99. I'll have a look at that thread.

The thing is, I don't feel old. But I'm beginning to feel that other people (men) think I am!

Maybe he just compliments people into sleeping with him and feels like he doesn't have to bother anymore?
Whatever the reason he sounds awful and you sound lovely.

Your partner is supposed to be a bonus addition that you have fun with, not someone who makes you feel shit!

I think you need to love yourself first before looking elsewhere for others unnecessary validation.

Take some time and work on your self esteem do you only give your time to those who deserve you. He certainly doesn't.

If your gut instinct is a 'no' then it's a 'no'. I don't see anything here to suggest he's abusive though, really I don't, if anything I think he's felt relaxed and been honest, but this has not been in his favour.

I want to pick up on one thing that people keep saying though, which is that three months in you should think someone is brilliant and see no flaws. If you are the kind of person I am, you would never ever have a relationship ever if you waited to feel like this, I am super anxious, spot all the flaws, agonize over them, decide I don't want to go out with them and so on. I can't suspend belief into this loved up stage at all. If anything, I'm less critical now I'm a decade or more into marriage, I feel relaxed and I know my husband properly adores me. I'm not sure why you have to believe they are Mr Perfect at this stage, or ignore any flaws, people aren't flawless and most relationships, and marriages are about knowing the person's flaws and still wanting to make a go of it. I knew my husband's flaws from about date four, when I married him, and he's still like it now. Luckily the good outweighs the bad!

Perhaps this loved up thing works for some people, but for the hyper-critical amongst us, it's a disaster. However, by flaws I mean things like the person's a bit too honest, or the person's quite stressed sometimes, or sometimes goes on a bit, not major flaws like some of the behaviour you read about on MN (abuse of any time).

This doesn't sound like the right guy for you FolkGirl but equally, I wouldn't wait for a 'perfect person' either, you do sound so critical of yourself and down on yourself that I wonder if you are stuck a hyper-critical space for both you and them- you are a clever intelligent person and you are a catch, but if you expect someone else make you lovable and gorgeous, what if you find a guy who is really a super person but just not prone to lots of compliments, there's plenty of genuine men who would gnaw their arm off rather than continuously comment on your appearance.

I've been guilty of letting my issues get in the way and regret one relationship I ended without working at it. What I get from your posts is a real ambivalence which makes it hard to judge what's him and what's you. I think it's positive if a person can admit and reflect on mistakes. I can't abide the holier than thou stance lots of people take- we are all fallible.

Take it slow and try to enjoy it. If it isn't a good fit, end it, you've lost nothing

i would dump him for the settling for older women line. Fuck that. Hed be off the first chance he got with someone youthful. Do yourself a favour, save your dignity and dump him now.
I also think maybe you shpuld look at geting some psychotherapy to work deeper on your self esteem x

"he had to remind himself that that attractive young woman he'd just seen wouldn't be interested so he had to look at older women seriously instead"
What, begrudgingly? Not flattering at all and I doubt it'll be doing your low self-esteem any good at all FolkGirl. I've never felt "settled for" in a relationship but his comments would unsettle me.

"If he is hung up on younger women, what would happen if a woman in her twenties did come on to him? he may feel he could not turn her down. Hmm"
My thoughts exactly, especially as he comes into contact with them a lot at work.

"But when I see him look at other women,it's always the young slim ones who catch his eye"
Hmm, how obvious is his looking? If I was with a man I would expect him to be so discreet that if he looked at other women whilst with me I'd not notice. It's just respectful IMO.

I've reread the thread and realised I've missed a few comments/questions I should have responded to. I'm on my phone though and it's tricky. I have read all the comments though and taken on board the comments and advice. Also my typos..!!! Sorry!

Napoleon - your post sums me up really. I am hyper critical of myself. That's why I don't think it would work with anyone really. I would miss someone who was perfect for me because of it.

Rumred - I think the ambivalence is because I'm trying to be detached from it and not influence responses with my own emotions. I'm also feeling a little stunned. And a little sad.

Bran - yes maybe. I definitely need something hardcore to address my self esteem. I just can't afford it :(

Bollocks - the looking is fairly obvious. I've not really been aware of a boyfriend/partner looking before but I've started to find that I'm anticipating it now and feel like I'm competing for his attention with strangers who don't even know he exists. At the weekend a woman caught his eye briefly before becoming obscured from view. He actually continued to look until she was visible again. At which point he clearly decided she wasn't all that because he immediately turned back to me. But I'm starting to feel like I need to be vigilant against it. I've always been insecure, but I don't recall ever doing that before.

But I think he'd be horrified if I brought it to his attention.

Horrified because you've sussed him out

This might sound terribly immature, but when I mentioned losing a little weight. The reason I gave was that I could no long easily find bras in my size in my favourite high street store for underwear and if I lost a little, my boobs would be smaller. I'm 34f and that's not a size they stock much of. His only comment was one of surprise that that was the case as my boobs aren't particularly big. I mean they're not huge, but an f cup has got to be considered pretty sizeable surely! My boobs are pretty much the only physical feature that I don't despise.

I suppose it's just that even in a conversation where I'd brought up my boobs, he still managed to avoid complimenting me or flirting.

:(

FolkGirl this definitely isn't the guy for you. You need someone who is pretty consistent, devoted in a nice obvious paying compliments kind of a way, and makes you feel like he thinks he's won the lottery by getting you, despite all the other pretty girls in the world.

He doesn't, he's checking other people out and making you question your attractiveness.

It doesn't really matter if in an ideal world you would have amazing self-esteem, you have flaws too, but that's ok, you just need someone who understands them and compensates a bit. This guy's flaws don't do that, they make you feel more insecure.

Sorry, I don't think this is a goer.

And hyper-critical people can fall in love, they can just see the flaws alongside the love. Not everyone has love goggles that obscure them, and the good thing is that when the early stage is over, there's no horrible revelation about what the person is really like!

I feel you will find someone, not sure he is it though at all.

That's just what I need napoleon.

There's a lot about him that I do like. I just don't like the way I'm starting to feel about myself when I'm with him.

Please ditch him. My dh is not a boob man and he would never say anything bad about them. That comment made me want to cry that you haven't kicked him in to touch already.

Bin this twat off.

OP he sounds like a cock and probably well aware of what he's doing. He could be trying to unsettle you and can probably pick up on your low self esteem. Don't hand over the power to determine how great you are to everyone else so readily. At the very least you should be staring at a few biceps at that point and saying how you prefer buff young men or something. Would you do that? if not why not? Mainly because you are not an inconsiderate arse I should think.

I'd be a bit worried about the hard letting go of wanting to be with a 25 yr old comment.

In his early 40's, you'd have thought he'd have got beyond that by now. Grown up enough not to want to be with 25 yr olds because they have different interests from him and he'd find them boring.

Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?!

He comes across as passive-aggressive: he's making very "deniable" comments to imply that you're "ok but not quite all that" so you're feeling grateful to be with him. And he's got an easy get-out clause.

Part of the joy of having a lover IS having someone think "wow" (not all the time, that would be annoying ) often and being excited when they see you, and conveying that information in no mean terms.

Who the actual fuck indicates to someone they're in a relationship that they "settled" for them? Low social skills at best.

FolkGirl Ive lost ten stone and gone from a 46G to a 34 HH. Back size is now dropping into a 32 but breasts still big.

We cant change our body shape. He sounds like a prat who WANTS you unsettled.

I think hes laying the foundations for an emotionally abusive relationship. Agree with PPs He knows damn well what hes doing.

In his early 40's, you'd have thought he'd have got beyond that by now. Grown up enough not to want to be with 25 yr olds because they have different interests from him and he'd find them boring

He said he wouldn't want to be with a woman younger than 28… I think it would be wishful thinking to assume that's an unusual attitude for 40 year old men. Doesn't mean in general they can't and won't be knocked off their feet by women their own age or older… but this particular guy is clearly insecure about his own age and about being unattractive to younger women.

Sorry, I don't really get the boob comment, but this:

a woman caught his eye briefly before becoming obscured from view. He actually continued to look until she was visible again. At which point he clearly decided she wasn't all that because he immediately turned back to me

is all you need to know. You would be an absolute fool to continue dating someone who does this so blatantly in front of you.

See I'm not sure that he isn't just clumsy.

I did pick him up on the 'settled for' thing. Those are my words, not his, but it's how it made me feel. He laughed and told me not to be daft and that it wasn't the case at all. But that's how it feels. It's how I feel.

By the way, I'm ALWAYS cynical about people who use the "honesty" line as in "I'm not saying X and saying Y JUST BECAUSE I'M HONEST".

People do say little things that aren't technically 100% true. It's part of the social dance that makes life bearable.

Yes, I am not Angelina Jolie but I still regularly get described as "a beauty", "you're amazing", "you sound like a very interesting person and I think you're going to do cool things with your life".

Overly gushing is not good sign

but this was all from men who aren't out to get anything from me, and who have definitely met women who are a lot more accomplished and pretty than me - I don't put myself down, but they actually like encouraging and supporting and saying nice things to people?

Conversely, I've eaten meals men have cooked for me and smiled and said they were amazing (then stopped in Mcdonalds on my way home, or choked down a second helping whilst crying inside).

When I've been friends with or dated people who pride themselves on being "honest", what they mean is:

"I want the right to lack tact and social skills and manipulate others into working hard for my approval" whilst expecting tact and social skills from others