would you end a fledgling relationship over this?

[FolkGirl]

I've been seeing someone for about 3 months. A couple of weeks ago i was unsure if I should end it over my own insecurities for his sake. I tried to, he became upset and persuaded me that I need to take a chance on another person at some point and that he was only interested in me. I'm going to preface this with the tired description of him as a really sweet guy, loads of friends close to his family, very respectable yada yada that I know means nothing.

So a couple of conversations/throwaway comments over the last week have made me question things. Again.

My boundaries are a bit shit, so I'm trying to work on those and it's finding the balance between, "you deserve better than that" and "fgs, FG, he's only human!".

So...

A comment that when he and his wife were still together, he and a couple of his friends/colleagues really fancied a very attractive woman at work and they used to flirt with/talk about her (I can imagine what was said). Basically, being a bit lechy. He said they were all in relationships so there was no intent there. And when they realised just how much younger she was, it felt a bit wrong. "Just harmless banter" though. Just feels very disrespectful to the young woman and his wife, although sthe woman flirted too. We all flirt at work a little, but it just felt a bit seedy. Timescales wise this would have been about 3 years ago. But he will still meet a lot of new young very attractive women. It goes with the job. Not sure I want to be with someone who is looking and flirting that openly.

In same conversation, he said it was hard letting go of wanting to be with a young (e.g. 25 yo) woman. He's early 40s. He said that (before meeting me, of course...) he had to remind himself that that attractive young woman he'd just seen wouldn't be interested so he had to look at older women seriously instead. I kind of feel like I've been 'settled for' because he's realised he can't do any better and get the sort of woman he wants anymore (which is one of my big hang ups because I was told that was all I'd ever be good for).

There are a couple of other little things that just don't sit quite right with me. But I don't know if that's just me and I have impossibly unrealistic expectations, or what!

So if this were you, what would you do?

Am I being unrealistic?

It's really sad that you think you are unworthy of someone you really liked.

Honestly, do yourself a favour and cut this guy loose. The situation will get worse, not better. I think that while you might say some of the things he did to a friend of either sex, you would not say it to a new partner unless you are trying to make them insecure. It certainly is also true that people tell you who they are and you need to take note of it.

Fwiw I told him I wasn't impressed with the flirting at work whilst married, well more the fact he'd said it wasn't with intent as he was in a relationship, and he played it down then.

If someone passes the waitress test it just means that they are not overtly abusive in public.

Go with your gut.

Personally, I think the word "banter" is twatspeak for " I have done something immensely twattish but if you call me out on it I'm going to tell you you're a humourless shrew." So that'd be strike one for me.

Strike two would be telling someone I was trying to date that I'd love to pull younger women, but Theyd do, (in a dark night after a beer, perhaps? How charming, you silver tongued lothario, you!)

Strike three would be a change in behaviour after he'd got me in the sack. Grim.

He doesn't strike me as fabulous. Anyone who isn't making you skip through the daisies in the honeymoon period isn't going to get better.

OP I'd interpret the lack of compliments after dtd simply as him feeling he no longer needed to sweet talk you into bed, rather than anything personal about your body (apologies if misinterpreted that but it seemed you were possibly thinking this?) Exercise could boost your self esteem massively, even walking, and can make you feel better about yourself ime. But really, ditching this bloke is likely to do that also, as you don't need to accept second best. I know how hard it is though and it's okay to take your time and do it when it's right for you. There are plenty of men out there who would consider themselves very lucky to have you, as there are for everyone. I bet this bloke is not exactly Brad Pitt anyway He should be grateful for the chance to date you. I've had the no compliments thing and its shit. But also some very complimentary men. Within a relatively short period of time too, so clearly its them

'A couple of weeks ago i was unsure if I should end it over my own insecurities for his sake. I tried to, he became upset and persuaded me that I need to take a chance on another person at some point '

This tells you all you need to know. You're instinct was telling you to end it for a reason.

Why are you 'taking chances' on these people who make you feel like they have just settled?

I think all this shows why you need to love yourself before you can love another.... all this having trigger points and explaining away/justifying why you are being made to feel crap and trying not to feel crap.... there is no room for emotional intimacy here.

Oh and my abusive ex passed the waitress test, so I agree it only screens out a certain type of abuse.

This relationship already sounds like enormously draining if you're questioning what he's telling you at the 3 month stage.

Regardless of what he saying or how he is saying it, if you have doubts move on. You should be in an excitable fuzz of hot dates, not self-doubt and worry.

Apologies if this has been asked, but why are you finding it difficult to follow your gut instincts?

You don't need permission to dump this guy. You don't owe him anything. It's been 3 months and he's already showing you he's immature - 'banter', over-disclosing and all the rest.

I don't think he sounds like a total loser/abuser, just 'not good enough' for FolkGirl.

To be honest, I don't think this guy has necessarily done anything particularly wrong; I just think he sounds wrong for you OP.

I'm not sure how much of this is down to your self esteem and how much is actually him.

FWIW, I'm 40 and overweight, thought nobody would ever look twice at me (especially after XH told me as much).

When I met DP we talked about dating, expectations, all the usual stuff and he mentioned that his original intention was to find someone "hot as fuck to make the ex jealous". His ex looks like Barbie, so this was no mean feat!

However, he had realised that his shallow expectations of a relationship wouldn't have made him happy, it was just a knee-jerk reaction. He has found so much more in me that he didn't even realised was important to him and he tells me I'm beautiful every day even though I'm clearly not

What I'm saying is that in the early days, while you are still sussing each other out it IS important to note what he says and how it makes you feel, but if you have low self-esteem you need to be able to try and separate what he says and how you feel about what he says. The context of the conversations you mention affects it a lot too - were you both talking about types you're attracted to, did you ask him how things had ended with his ex etc., what kind of dates he'd been on?

DP and I talked about all that stuff and I must admit I was surprised that men my age look so old! When I see people I went to school with on FB they look like properly old men, but in my mind I think I still look 25 (and my lovely DP tells me that's the case!) If your fella is just voicing this stuff with you in a casual way, I wouldn't read too much into it, but either way, you need to try and help yourself as you will cause problems, even in a relationship with Mr Perfect, if you are constantly doubting your worth.

I know this, as I still do it all the time. Luckily I am with someone who is endlessly patient about my hang-ups, but if the next few months show that your bloke doesn't have what it takes to make you start to feel good about yourself then you need to split up for your own sake.

Sorry, just read your last big update. I see that the conversation was just a normal natural discussion, in which case it doesn't sound odd to me at all. Yes, the admitting to flirting thing, perhaps a bit of over-sharing, but if you're sitting in a cosy room with wine chatting about stuff in a relaxed way, I can imagine how that stuff might pop out.

However, the no compliments thing is more worrying. I don't take it as 'he doesn't have to try to get you in the sack now", probably more that he feels a bit too comfy with you, so perhaps not one to put in the effort on a long term basis.

I certainly wouldn't take it that he doesn't fancy you since seeing you naked, he could still compliment you on your beautiful face or what you're wearing etc even if your body wasn't the stuff of his dreams!

Usually when people don't compliment their partner it's because they are insecure about themselves - it's not a reflection on you. They don't compliment you because they want you to feel unworthy of them so that they have control on you.

I think it's pretty insensensitive of this person to be talking about all the pretty, young things he comes across. It does sound like he's trying to tell you he's "settling".

I mean, I might think phwoaar about a younger man, but the fact that he mightn't want me wouldn't worry me, at all. I'd be more concerned that we might have little in common and that he might not be very emotionally mature. In other words, I'd be more concerned about the reasons I might not want him, than vice versa.

Would I go out with someone who discussed 'young and attractive' women with me, and how he couldn't have them anymore? No. I can't explain why, except to say that it's indicative of a man that judges a woman purely by her looks, not by her value as a person. My DH would not be joining in with a group of men flirting with a very young woman at work with/without intent - in fact the whole thing would make him feel very uncomfortable - it's faintly leery, and he is very non-leery about women which is why I love him!

Do I think my DH 'settled' for me? No - but I did meet him at 21. It was absolutely clear to me that I was number 1.

I do think it sounds like you have low self esteem though OP.

I think it was over disclosing and too honest rather than potentially abusive amd controlling. But it's made me feel inadequate and shit :-(

FG, I don't like the sound of this person - there is nothing about what you have described that makes me think he's a keeper.

I can only compare to my experience, and whenever someone has made me feel inadequate and shit in the past, it is because they were wrong for me, the things they said were evidence of that fact. They didn't do things deliberately (like your DP), most of the time they were oblivious to it - just they were wrong for me.

After 3 months, I'd cut loose if I were you, don't invest further - go with your gut instinct.

I don't like the sound of this person

I think this person sounds like a lot of people, some of whom will be knobs and some of whom will be good guys. Either way, he's clearly wrong for the OP because she does not feel good when she's with him.

And it doesn't sound like the OP is right for him either.

3 months is often a good time to decide whether something's going in the right direction or not… sounds like 'not' for you OP.

Thank you. I did type out a long reply but then went out for a drink with my friend and lost it!

I agree that it's more than we're not suited than he's a dick.

From what I've heard about his ex, I can't inagine she suffered fools (I always used to think I didn't :( ) so I don't think he's an arse. Obviously I'm only giving you my side, though my filter and he has no right to reply.

I want to be with someone who thinks I'm amazing. Who makes me feel I'm amazing. And I don't. I have to accept that maybe no one will ever feel like that about me. They haven't so far! And maybe that's where I'm holding out for something that will never happen.

I know he encounters lots of pretty young things and I don't want to feel like I'm permamently huffing and puffing up behind them in a competition I didn't intentionally enter.

From what I've heard, his ex had high self esteem. I don't have. If he has no experience of that, he has no idea how desperately wretched I feel about myself. But that's the way it is.

Amy, thank you. Yes, that's exactly what Ieamt. Was I hearing stuff that was quite innocuous amd innocent, yet my filter was puttimg a really unpleasant slant on it.

I do think he is essentially a nice guy and maybe I'm just a bit too screwed up for him.

FG - were you complimenting him a lot and him not returning the compliments?

Initially the compliments were mutually effusive.

Us dtd coincided with a slight emotional upheaval in his life so I backed off a little. We were still in lots of contact but it was unavoidable and I backed off to let him deal with it.

It just didn't feel like it got back on track afterwards.

I do compliment him still. Not as enthusiastically as it might have been before, but I get nothing back. So I will say to him "you look lovely tonight" or "I love the way you smell" or "that really suits you" and he'll reply "thank you"

Which is fine. But even when I've made an effort he doesn't appear to notice or acknowledge it.

Very occasionally if I pay him a compliment he'll return it. But never spontaneously. And he doesn't compliment me when we're 'together'. Iykwim.