would you end a fledgling relationship over this?

[FolkGirl]

I've been seeing someone for about 3 months. A couple of weeks ago i was unsure if I should end it over my own insecurities for his sake. I tried to, he became upset and persuaded me that I need to take a chance on another person at some point and that he was only interested in me. I'm going to preface this with the tired description of him as a really sweet guy, loads of friends close to his family, very respectable yada yada that I know means nothing.

So a couple of conversations/throwaway comments over the last week have made me question things. Again.

My boundaries are a bit shit, so I'm trying to work on those and it's finding the balance between, "you deserve better than that" and "fgs, FG, he's only human!".

So...

A comment that when he and his wife were still together, he and a couple of his friends/colleagues really fancied a very attractive woman at work and they used to flirt with/talk about her (I can imagine what was said). Basically, being a bit lechy. He said they were all in relationships so there was no intent there. And when they realised just how much younger she was, it felt a bit wrong. "Just harmless banter" though. Just feels very disrespectful to the young woman and his wife, although sthe woman flirted too. We all flirt at work a little, but it just felt a bit seedy. Timescales wise this would have been about 3 years ago. But he will still meet a lot of new young very attractive women. It goes with the job. Not sure I want to be with someone who is looking and flirting that openly.

In same conversation, he said it was hard letting go of wanting to be with a young (e.g. 25 yo) woman. He's early 40s. He said that (before meeting me, of course...) he had to remind himself that that attractive young woman he'd just seen wouldn't be interested so he had to look at older women seriously instead. I kind of feel like I've been 'settled for' because he's realised he can't do any better and get the sort of woman he wants anymore (which is one of my big hang ups because I was told that was all I'd ever be good for).

There are a couple of other little things that just don't sit quite right with me. But I don't know if that's just me and I have impossibly unrealistic expectations, or what!

So if this were you, what would you do?

Am I being unrealistic?

Folk before you end it, I think you should talk to him about this and tell him how it makes you feel. You sound a bit meek? He may be horrified if he knew you were close to ending it over him being a perve.

He's told you his reasons! You're the booby prize in his eyes; the nice, intelligent, witty & attractive woman he's prepared to settle for (big of him) as long as he can't net a 25-year-old with the same qualities. And it gets worse ... He can't net such a woman because he isn't good enough or young enough. Therefore, he reckons he's second-rate. And you, to him, are the second-rate girlfriend he deserves.

The whole picture's disgusting! His thinking's so faulty; his attitude so entitled; he's such a misogynist, he doesn't actually deserve a girlfriend at all.

I was at my superficially most attractive, believe it or not, between the ages of 35 and 45. During that time, a hell of a lot of pathetic men tried to tell me I should go out with them as I was "no spring chicken" and I was their last chance! What were they really saying? "You're out my league and I know it. But if I 'neg' your age, you might feel desperate enough to settle for me. I don't care if that makes you feel like shit."
Twats.

I agree with everything you say girl rack

Gilrack! Damned iPad

Folk, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt when you first posted, but actually the more I read the worse he sounds.

Annie had it right when she said "He seems to be one of those dreadful types who think women were put on this earth for him to look at, and take it as a personal affront if a woman who they don't find attractive goes around willfully existing in their line of vision. "

I'm glad you've decided that he's not for you, you deserve better.

And BTW I can pretty much guarantee that you are more beautiful than you think you are! People like us always are.

I had a little group of MN friends who had chatted and advised each other about relationships on here without ever having seen each other. We'd all been taught by people we loved to believe that we were unattractive and too fat to be loved.

When we met up in person we were all bowled over, as there stood a bunch of beautiful, normal sized women who bore no resemblance at all the ones we'd each described in our posts (mainly via comments from exes).

Rebecca - I'm inclined to agree with you that I should speak with him. I think he should know. As much as anything, he might rethink his attitude for the future. But I don't want to be with someone who is a perv.

Gilrack - yes, I've experienced that more than once myself now.

Amy - that's amazing and really interesting. I just wonder why his wife put up with it. Perhaps she didn't know. Perhaps he wasn't like it with her. Perhaps he felt she was worthy of him.

I'm going away with my children for a few days tomorrow. I'll tell him whenIget back. I don't have the headspace tonight.

He doesn't make you feel cherished. It's an old fashioned word, but when you find him, the right man will cherish you and you will know he cherishes you.
Sorry but this one sounds dreadful.

Ni. He doesn't make me feel cherished. Interestingly when we started seeing each other, being and feeling cherished was one of the things I said I wanted from a relationship and he said he was going to do it and that it would be easy :(

Oh well...

If you were my friend, I'd be bundling you up and away from him.

He's not good for you, and he's not good for your self-esteem.

He's perfectly fine for someone else, just not you.

Have a lovely time with your children.

Never been cherished either. Would be nice!

Without being mopey and miserable, I wonder if it is possible to get through ypir life without ever being loved or cherished.

"...These days all I hear from him is how he would love to "smash" girls on TV such as bloody Ellie Goulding who is blonde and skinny and looks nothing like me. Whenever a good looking girl comes on TV he tells me how he would love to have sex with them when I can pretty much count all the times we've had sex in the last few months on one hand..."

Oh Bubblegum, that's awful! That's dumpable behaviour to me, without a doubt. Bastard! So glad you say you're in the process of kicking him to the kerb.

dump!

I remember someone in my social circle with severe eczema/acne, a pot belly, not very facially attractive, and quite a submissive personality . He thought he "deserved" some creative, young, slim, type.

or an old flatmate - came from a country which I think some women might dismiss him romantically on just hearing it ,

not very attractive, bit of a childish personality, social life consisting of watching TV or eating, average paid job...

he thought he deserved a young, slim, white (ideally blonde), childless partner?

both were "on the surface" nice non-laddish guys who could talk the talk and were highly educated.

but below were seething over-emotional balls of rage obsessed with socialising with women they "thought" would solve all their woes

then having tantrums when they got the "just friends" speech.

(the old flatmate actually came onto me after he'd been friendzoned and used for practical favors by someone who fitted his "precise criteria", i was too busy dating real men )

I don't even think it was about sex or sexual attraction? you got the vibe they were disappointed in the men they were, and wanted women who they "thought" would make them look good in other men's eyes.

(which I think is nonsense - most men don't sit round backslapping other men for having "pulled a younger woman".

Especially in this era of internet dating, getting an attractive "catch" to go on a couple of dates with you is no achievement.

what people DO respect and admire is relationships which have gone the distance and are emotionally fruitful!)

he had to remind himself that that attractive young woman he'd just seen wouldn't be interested so he had to look at older women seriously instead.

Wow, that's big of him. Sorry, have not read the whole thread but from what I can make out, things haven't got better since this statement.

Dating sites are full of men like this. They'll be 40-45 and looking for women aged 18-40. It's a handy filter for me. If a man my age doesn't want to date a woman his own age, and would seriously be interested in an 18 year old, I don't see the point. Now, there's nothing wrong with 18 year olds, and I don't object to age-gap relationships. But there is something really quite depressing about so many men being stuck in a world in which women's only value is in their appearance and in which that appearance is only lauded if it's youthful.

Incidentally when I first met the flatmate i asked him for a "group drink" for the flat in general (I myself had a boyfriend at the time)

he came back implying i was "coming onto him" and he was interested in someone else (who wasn't the least bit interested in him)

like he had choice of all these women and it was down to him to "pick".

some men just seem to think that women are there to be appraised and ranked (even if they wouldn't touch the man in question with a bargepole...) they hate themselves so they will always hate the kind of women who actually likes them...

CarvaLavae,

Maybe I'm misreading your post but

an old flatmate - came from a country which I think some women might dismiss him romantically on just hearing it ,

How does someone dismiss a person romantically just on hearing which country they come from?

Dodecathlon I imagine it would be a country where the culture is patriarchal, where the men are brought up to consider women inferior to them.

WhatA, thanks for responding. I understand your statement, but to dismiss a whole tranche of humans because of a blanket assignment of the idea of a culture to a nation, seems the more unattractive trait.

If I look at the rife sexism endemic across, as far as I can see, all cultures, having at its root men considering women to be inferior (be it spoken or merely implied, traceable in the sheer scale of behind-closed-doors abuse, comments, assaults, media treatments), one might imagine all cultures are patriarchal.

I have experience of people in such strongly labelled countries, with political movements that rule by force, or via the ignorance and fear of a mass rural/uneducated vote, and have large, growing, young populations rejecting these ideas, the same ideas they are tainted by association with, by popular medias abroad.

So to dismiss a person romantically on a basis as tenuously representative of their beliefs, choices and personality as 'nationality' - as I say, seems the more unattractive trait, than belonging to 'a country where the culture is patriarchal'.

dode i see where you are coming from but having been brought up heavily influenced by the culture of the country my mother is from (a very strongly patriarchal country dominated by Catholicism with one of the worst records globally of domestic violence i decided long ago never to date men of that nationality. For reasons of self preservation.

Thank you Helena. From a similar position to you, I still could never make that call. It just seems absurd out of a nation of, in the case I am thinking of, tens of millions of people. There are vanguards of liberal movements, highly educated campaigners, people in neither of the above categories quietly resisting and questioning the status quo... people who, having witnessed firsthand the worst excesses of patriarchy (I am talking about men) have decided consciously to practise the opposite with a depth and commitment not borne of experience in a 'lighter' patriarchy. I think humanity is our deepest nature, and more people than we give credit to sometimes are capable of getting there by themselves, as past enlightenment movements in historical civilisations have proved. Yes the horrid people periodically take over at the top of the tree, but I could never write off a whole nationality as far as picking a partner. Just as I hope no one would write off me for whatever they think of my nationality. Thank you for sharing your opinion and experience.

dode i cant talk about it under this username I name changed for personal reasons but at a very young age im afraid i got my fears rubber stamped on three seperate occasions .

He's a wanker, no man who is even slightly decent behaves in the way you describe.

One of the kindest and most honest men I ever met grew up in a strongly patriarchal society in the midst of a civil war. We might have still been together now but he felt he owed it to his country of birth to go back there. I think in a small but significant way he is making a difference there now.