Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

[tomatoplantproject]

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

Thinking of you this evening Tom and hoping it helps you towards some sort of clarity either way.

Weebirdie I can see what you are saying, but not sure that I can be anymore eloquent .

It's almost as though at the beginning you feel as though your good deeds and sacrifices are for the greater good of the relationship/ family unit... But eventually you lose your identity and the other person, appears to seek out who you were at the beginning.

I'm not saying this is a fault in anyone, but just that there are those of us who are more giving, or should I say form relationships with people who take advantage of this trait, and are therefore more open to their deceit and selfishness, as they end up believing that they are 'entitled' to such support, as opposed to being grateful and appreciative.

My EX was mostly a 'taker' and I foolishly always believed that the support and help I gave would be reflected one day- it never happened!

I was left feeling totally drained and to this day, still struggle with the "why did I let it happen".

Still, at least I know and can always take comfort in the fact that I didn't shit on him, nor ever intentionally do so to any other human being .

I hope you are okay x

Am back. It was all a bit of a non event.

From him - the balance of power was weighted in his favour in the relationship , he didn't "bully" but he "steered" me as in he is more driven and ambitious in life and I lack that drive. I said I felt very patronised by being steered.

I spoke far more than I intended.

I said the only reason I was still talking to him was dd. that every time I even contemplated talking to him I was brought very low.

I said that I need to have honesty about the affair. The counsellor spoke a bit about trust.

She was very balanced. She said we need to start talking a lot more than we are. I said it was too difficult.

He is actually going on holiday on his own next week. When he asked if he could go I said yes, but there was this voice in my head saying he would meet her. I said I was suspicious. He said he would love it if I came too, and the counsellor said why not? I said I wasn't ready.

The counsellor has suggested we have some individual sessions which we are going to do. During his he is going to go warts and all through the affair with her and after that session he is going to tell me the whole truth. Apparently.

It felt like a waste of time actually. I didn't get anything new from him and I think we are just treading water - getting nowhere. He's holding back, being too "blank". All he's talked about is how guilty he feels particularly about dd.

I just feel drained again. The counsellor said I needed to work through all of the emotion. So feeling blue is ok.

He also seems to think that he has told me how much he loves and respects me. I seem to have missed that little gem. Or it got lost in a host of all other things he has said.

So no great epiphanies. Nothing that makes me think we have anything worth saving. We seem to have reached stalemate. I'm not ready to call time on the whole thing and I'm refusing to engage in too much dialogue and he hasn't done anything to make me change my mind or my opinion.

Sorry it was a non-event, tom. I would humbly also just drop in a reminder that counsellors are weighted heavily in favour of 'saving' relationships if at all possible. They view themselves as like doctors, when faced with an injured couple they view their role as to do everything to 'heal' and not to give up. They feel that is why they've been employed. They also, because they are ostensibly being paid by both parties, feel obliged in many cases to view the concerns of both parties as equally valid. This is why so many betrayed people feel totally wrong-footed by Relate and such straight after an affair. They are often trained to focus on 'unmet needs' on both sides. This can be genuinely helpful to couples who have stopped communicating generally or have come to a mutual understanding after time that the affair has been exposed and discussed adequately and they are ready to discuss their 'relationship' going forward, but can often feel incredibly unfair to those who have recently been wronged.

His holiday sounds either suspicious or indulgent. It is possible he has arranged the holiday and waiting to see if you would come and if not, will invite OW. But it is also possible he has been so 'stressed' recently by discovery etc that he thinks he deserves some me time. (!) I would consider whether or not this is in character for him and make a judgement based on that. But as I'm sure you know, you're unlikely to get the truth if it's suspicious and unlikely to find out anyway (unless he comes back and starts moving towards a position of leaving, in which case, he's probably firmed things up with her)

Sad to hear he is still talking mostly about HIS guilt. That's another very narcissistic quality. All this focus on how bad HE feels. Why not channel that energy into SHOWING you he loves and respects you. It makes no sense.

Also gross that the only thing he admitted to was steering you, because you lack ambition and drive which he has. He even managed to turn that admission into a compliment to himself. Weird.

He's going on holiday? At the darkest, bleakest moments of my life I can't ever recall any burning desire to get away. I could understand him taking DD, but alone?

by the way, holding back normally happens because a cheater has not yet extricated themselves from the other relationship and is not ready to emotionally recommit, only to hold onto both relationships in a sort of choice paralysis hoping that the right answer presents itself or waiting to see who 'fights' hardest.

normally if they have lost the other relationship they fight very hard to come back (in the short term with some pining in the long term) or sometimes they walk away completely because they feel certain they had an affair because they were so unhappy (this is more common for women but is sometimes men, often depending how unhappy and sexless their relationship was before)

I do feel very wrong footed by it. I'm trying my best to work on myself and she is saying we need to talk more.

His holiday - we haven't had a holiday for a while. The last one was a total disaster. He works hard. He wants some time off work so is going away. It is what it is. I don't trust him, I won't ever know if he is meeting her there unless I go myself to check.

He hasn't made any attempts to make me feel any better or tell me I had got anything wrong - whether in my reading of myself or of our relationship before the affair started.

She is saying you need to talk more because her agenda is to save the relationship because that is what she is being paid to do by both of you. If you went to an individual counsellor you would find a different story, one based on your sole interest.

"He hasn't made any attempts to make me feel any better "
That makes me feel sad.

I'd be tempted to take your own holiday then on the way back turn up halfway through his holiday unannounced! If only for a laugh. Is it in character for him to do this? Does he take holidays alone often?

also he DOES need to talk more. He needs to tell you the truth, for a start. You don't need to do anything.

Interesting about the holding back because she isn't out of the picture.

It's almost like he's hoping that if he ignores me asking for the full story and how it ended he can avoid the question entirely. I've been very clear several times this is what I want. Perhaps it is because it hasn't ended.

He is taking dd to his parents for a few days and then is going away on his own. I wouldn't dream of going away for a whole week without her.

Do you know what? Fuck him. Yet again he's taking up headspace.

Its only been in character for him to go away on his own since meeting her.

It has crossed my mind to go and surprise him.

The counsellor I went to see before wasn't very good and I haven't looked for an alternative.

Fair enough, all this is exhausting. When you feel stronger and have more time you may want to consider trying another, there are some terrible ones out there and some good ones. Much net research can help. I went with the second one I met, the first was very cold.

I'm afraid that fact above makes me more suspicious. It's not just unusual behaviour, it's a pattern of affair behaviour from him.

Hey, it's not a bad idea to turn up, but the reality of that might make you feel foolish and vulnerable and you need to keep your strength. It's certainly not detaching but if you were to expose him it may help you do just that. I'd think long and hard about whether if you discovered he WAS going with her, whether that would be a dealbreaker for you. I feel like you need to find a bottom line as without that you are in danger of rationalising everything, like with the phone.

I think I would feel very foolish. If they were caught that would definitely be a bottom line. Maybe I should hire a private detective.

Aw, tom. You poor thing. What a stressful horrible position to be in. Just rest now. You've done nothing wrong and you're left feeling so exposed and sad. None of this is your fault. Rest and look after yourself, you deserve it.

Tom, check out the BACP website, and you will find the best counsellors on there. I would suggest one who deals in Person Centred Therapy. Most good highly experienced Counsellors do not like conducting couples counselling in a situation like yours. PCT does exactly what it says on the tin. It's a process completely about you, and how this whole situation has impacted on you. You could well find that you don't need any of the detail you seem so hung up on right now, once you have a good Counsellor who will help to empower you to finally decide what's best for you, in a safe confidential environment. You can take as long as you need, but I promise you won't come away feeling like you did tonight. These joint sessions are getting you nowhere, it's still too much about him, he isn't going to spontaneously step up to the plate and tell you all you want to hear. Too much water has gone under that particular bridge, and all this prevaricating is delaying your healing.

You really are doing amazingly well, but I hate the disappointment I sense you feel, after these sessions.

Tom! Sorry it is not going anywhere.
Can you propose him to take DD away with him on holidays to reassure you that he is not going to meet her? Good Luck!

Tom, lovely, I'd be fascinated to know how much headspace he's giving to thinking about you. From the surface it does seem like he's doing a bit of self-justification rather than experiencing real gut-wrenching mortification about what he has done to you, the life you shared together, and your little DD. I'd imagine he's feeling quite sorry for himself too.

Thank you cate - I will have another look.

Hussars - I'm not sure I take up any headspace

I've slept really badly again so have to survive today. I have a group I'm taking dd to, and then a friend is coming for lunch. Dd and I need to pack for her little trip away.

I'm going to have to break this cycle. It's no good for me at all. And if blood is right and the affair is still continuing there is no point in me hankering after a future I once thought I had.

Did he evidence that he had reflected at all? You were quite clear re you're expectations of him, did you think that he tried to meet them?

I wish I could just give you a hug. He seems to have avoided any of the normal human emotions I'd have expected from him, and I'm not sure I see any movement from him to work collaboratively with you to see where you go from here. I may be wrong, and I don't know him, but he just seems to be such a closed shop, defensive, and quite me me me.
He's a fool, but he was your fool, and his lack of regard for what he has done to you all must hurt so badly.

Respect to you for staying so dignified. (I hope his holiday suitcase gets lost)

He didn't say a huge amount which indicated a lot of reflection. No. Or much regard for what I am going through.

I'm actually going to just get through today and from tomorrow start building myself up again. I am going to try and start breaking some of the cycles I am in.

What he is showing is ambivalence - as Blood has said, its usually because he is still in touch with OW.

He is showing none of the signs that a reformed cheater committed to changing would show

I would keep focusing on yourself and your life with DC.

Tomato, I just wanted to answer this point but didn't want to write as if you aren't here.

He seems to have avoided any of the normal human emotions I'd have expected from him,

He's not capable of the normal human emotions but Tomato cant yet see that. She doesn't understand that people like her husband can operate as very 'normal' before the less desirable part of their make up shows its self. It goes back to Blood referring to what Tom sees as the good man she knew, then this one. They are one and the same person and each times we hear more about Toms husband - the more he proves it to people who know what they are reading about. The current stalemate is because there is no place for this to go, Tom wants things from her husband that he cant give because his genie is well and truly out of the bottle, and her husband is being the way he is because if he says anything he knows the game is well and truly up. He is more of the whole part of him that he ever was before - his genie is well and truly out of the bottle. He cannot let Tom see that and he has a very good idea that if he keeps quiet eventually it will all settle down and things will be hunky dory again. He will even let Tom think she's in control of a lot but in reality she will only be in control in ways that he lets her whilst making her believe she really is the woman she wants to be.