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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

999 replies

tomatoplantproject · 19/05/2015 07:16

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for Hmm
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

OP posts:
DrMorbius · 16/06/2015 14:36

But I don't even know what the whole truth means. The whole truth to you may mean a very different thing than it does to your DH.

As odd as it sounds I think you will have to define what "the whole truth" means.

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 14:38

Cate - we tried to hash things out together but the conversations didn't end well.

Aftereight - yes the lies are just a continuance of the deceit. All part and parcel.

OP posts:
tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 14:47

DrM - the whole truth - for me it is the facts. The when, where they met. How much money was spent. How that fitted in with what was happening to me. He's gone through things a couple of times and the two versions don't match up, fact wise. I want to know the facts after I found out. How long he was in touch with her, how and when it finally ended.

OP posts:
DrMorbius · 16/06/2015 15:05

That's fine Tomato - my point was, I think you will have to explain to your DH (as you did in your post) exaclty what details you expect to hear. Basically just articulate to him your post above.

Twinklestein · 16/06/2015 15:05

You will never get the emotional truth of exactly how he felt about you and her. That's not verifiable. There's no way you'd get back with him if he admitted he loved her more, found her more attractive, or if he revealed just how close he was to leaving... So all of that you'll have to guess or take on 'trust'.

Just what trust means in this scenario I'm not sure.

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 15:14

Twinkle - I read emails where they discussed him leaving us for her and I can only assume from that he did actually love her for a period of time more than he loved me. I was and am gutted about that. I'm actually disgusted that she came to the uk and he met her had sex and then came home to me.

From what he has said he met her 7 times until I found out. Along with the daily emails and texts and phone conversations.

On that alone it was pure fantasy.

OP posts:
FantasticButtocks · 16/06/2015 15:41

I'm sure you won't forget that he has said he is unable to guarantee that him having an affair won't happen again.

I understand why you want to get your own life sorted, with yoga, friends and all the stimulation you need. This is healthy. What is not healthy is to be doing those things and thinking they will make your marriage better, when it is his attitudes and behaviours which are harming your marriage.

I think something which will come up in counselling is what do you actually want to happen?

You can't make him tell the truth.

You can't make him want to be faithful.

You can't stop him being an aesthetic snob.

You can't turn him back into the decent man you loved.

Those things would have to come from him. See what he has to offer when you go the counselling. And in the meantime, have a think about that question. What do you want?

Best of luck.

Twinklestein · 16/06/2015 15:46

I remember those details OP, they indicate her loved her enough to leave but not the respective qualities of the love he had for you both. Without knowing that you can't really sense how likely getting back together is to work.

Baldly, if he loved her more intensely, and had a stronger physical attraction, even if that's based partly or mostly on fantasy, it makes it all the more likely he'll go in search of that again at some point.

Their discussions about leaving don't tell you how close he came to it emotionally rather than practically speaking.

You can get all the dates and times, work out what was happening in your life to tie in with actions of his, you can figure out what he is still lying about - but at the end of the day - the time he spent having an affair will always be an unknown to you.

It seems like you feel if he would only be honest you could get to the bottom of things, but this is an illusion, you never will.

DrMorbius · 16/06/2015 15:46

Twinkle - I read emails where they discussed him leaving us for her and I can only assume from that he did actually love her for a period of time more than he loved me - I very much doubt, he was seriously thinking about leaving you for a woman he had seen six or seven times. Just because he wrote that in an email means almost nothing.

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 15:50

Fantastic - that's a good way of looking at it.

The job, yoga, friends etc is for me. It is me getting "me" back. These are all the seeds of my own happiness.

OP posts:
FantasticButtocks · 16/06/2015 15:57

Yes, and hopefully they will make you feel even stronger in yourself. Once you are good and strong and your life is going well, you may find you want more from a marriage than he is able to offer.

MaMaof04 · 16/06/2015 16:15

Tom dear! I understand what you feel and what you want. I also wanted to have some mental logs with three columns- one for the dates- the other for with what I was doing for our relationships at these dates- and the third for what was happening between them.
Time and again we have to keep in mind that affairs are delusional.
I think that in your case, what he wrote what he said to her, must be looked upon as immaturity- delusional behavior of a teenager in love. When you are living in delusion then you do not remember exactly what happened even if you have some strong impressions of what happened. So it might be tough for you to do such a log.
So you might want to do some other log with three columns : in one write how he behaved, what he wrote ; in the other ask him to tell you what he meant to do to say ; in the third ask him to tell you what impact- emotional or practical- he thinks this behavior/missive/words have on you and DD.
It is OK and important to pinpoint at discrepancies because after all you want to rebuild trust between you before finally deciding to stay. However remember the delusional bit- the well know distorting effect of facts that stem from emotional memories. This distortion delusion 'teens love' (leaving a wife - a kid and a tough and expensive attempt to have another kid for a woman he had sex with seven times at most is a bit puzzling and ask for the labels of immaturity and narcissism. These might be the primary issues that have to be addressed - the exact details of the affairs are important at the start but they are secondary IMO to these issues (or other issues- only you and a good counselor/therapist can reach the most trustful diagnosis and find out what are the real issues).

You want to know how to intellectually and emotionally process the affair; it is legitimate and good as it is part of your life now; and he must help you do that; still may I ask you to try and focus your analytical mind and energies on how he behaves now- do you feel that he is trying to atone for his behavior? Is he speaking in a way that put your mind and heart to rest? is he willing to acknowledge and address his 'personality' or environmental issues? Good Luck time! it is a tough road. Have faith you will eventually reach the best decision for you and your DD. (One pragmatic thing: I think that divorce on adultery grounds is granted only within 6 months of Discover Day; after that period the court assumes that the betrayed partner somehow condoned and accepted the affair.)

Twinklestein · 16/06/2015 16:16

I very much doubt, he was seriously thinking about leaving you for a woman he had seen six or seven times. Just because he wrote that in an email means almost nothing.

The fact he said it was only 6 or 7 times means nothing either. And anyway, people do the craziest things. My husband maintains to this day meeting me was love at first sight and he asked me to marry him after a month, which I ignored.

Tom's DH was serious enough to talk to a counsellor about it - who the hell does that for a random shag? That indicates he considered his options seriously.

More particularly it led him to brand Tom as a 'compromise', indicating he felt OW was not, or that there might be someone out there who wasn't.

I suspect the end of the affair was for the purely practical reason that neither wanted to relocate when it came to it.

Weebirdie · 16/06/2015 16:21

Everything blood has said is also how I see it. I just couldn't articulate it.

I have a vision in my head of a lion tamer going into a ring with a lion who needs to be tamed and Tomato is the lion tamer. She's changing herself so she can tame her husband but thats not the way she sees it and for now its the only way I can get it across.

She thinks she can handle him but she cant. No one can.

Im sorry of that sounds horrible. Its not my intention.

Weebirdie · 16/06/2015 16:24

I am going to keep asking until I get the truth.

The truth will only ever be what you want it to be. When you here something that you are ok with, that will be 'your' truth. You will believe what you need to believe in order to get by.

Weebirdie · 16/06/2015 16:33

Sorry, Im still trying to articulate how I'm seeing this so -

I have visions of Tomato having him back because she had the power to get him back then realising its not what she wanted after all.

Christinayanglah · 16/06/2015 16:47

How are you feeling about tonight?

BloodontheTracks · 16/06/2015 16:47

I applaud your commitment to getting the truth. I think that as others have said, that's impossible the way he is behaving at present. Again, it is not your responsibility to get the, it is his to give it. What would be a positive sign is if he came to you and said, this may mean you never want to see me again but here is the timeline and details of what happened, complete with evidence if requested (there is always evidence, people don't fall in love and destroy keepsakes) and here is why I think I allowed this and why I would be different in the future. And for you to be satisfied with this.

I actually am one of the few people who will occasionally encourage communication with the OW, because sometimes that just gets the bubble burst quicker and sometimes yields facts which hurry things along and stop people's lives being wasted. The one piece of advice I can offer is this, do NOT do this in conjunction with him, any communication like that must come out of the blue, to her and him, because I'm afraid otherwise they will get their stories straight, no matter what the state of their relationship. It is as useless as the newly clean phone he offered you. This fact has always bothered me, not just because of what it shows about his former lies but also the lack of respect for you that he would even bother. It's like he thought you were thick.

No man wants his secrets uncovered no woman wants to be portrayed as homewrecker. As I said, observing a call on speaker from him to her with no time to prepare is often good. Or being in touch with her alone. Honestly? I once received a call from a man I cheated with telling me his wife would phone and begging me to lie. She didn't but I would have, I was young and stupid and didn't want to see him again and also didn't want to be responsible for a marriage ending. More tellingly and horribly, he still, years later contacts me occasionally to say he misses me and wants to meet up. I also know he cheated multiple times with others. I obviously ignore. I feel very sorry for his wife and I deeply regret everything about that. I would hate for you to be in the same position.

I think one of the most impossible things about an affair uncovered is that short-term it always seem easiest to stay, the enormity of splitting a family etc is too much to bear. But long-term there is no doubt it is the tougher route. However, since we always live in the short-term (it is always 'now') most people choose to stay and some are destroyed by it for years (long-term). I have seen great marriages come out of such situations and be repaired (see JonestheSteam on here for an example online) but never in the way you are describing. What you are describing is becoming so strong and independent that it would be impossible for you to be hurt by him in the same way again, which isn't the same as building a new marriage, which is what is required and involves change in behaviour and character from him, not you.

To explain further, 'detachment' is a state in which the subconscious expectation that it is inevitable to get back together is gone, leaving the betrayed truly free to choose their path in life, as if both are equally appealing for different reasons, and to securely and maturely choose the one they see clearly and really want, rather than acting out of fear/expectation/'the children' and denial.

BloodontheTracks · 16/06/2015 16:49

As for facts, the fact that he hasn't even given you facts which add up for the timeline of the affair is woeful. Really woeful. I would only be advising you to even consider reconciliation if that had happened long long ago and even then, cautiously. This is why I am urging you to detach. I honestly have no agenda here. I'm trying to help. Sending strength and hope.

Christinayanglah · 16/06/2015 16:53

I think for me the questions would be around why

Why did he do this when trying to get you pregnant?

Why was he going to leave?

Why wouldn't he show you the phone? Etc

I hope things go okay tonight Tom, but I'm afraid to say I don't think this man has it in him to give you the answers you need

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 16:59

Thank you everyone. It's really hard to read your words. But I know they are coming from a good place.

I guess I shall just have to see what happens tonight.

We are at the vets hoping to find my mute cat's meow. I've then got to get dd sorted out with tea and bath so might not be able to get back on here for a couple of hours.

OP posts:
BloodontheTracks · 16/06/2015 17:06

Of course. Thinking of your sore throated kitty!

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 19:36

Love
Respect
Honesty/truthfulness
Fun - fun "desire" and fun "fun"
Thoughtfulness - so kindness and selflessness.

These are the qualities I want. He clearly isn't demonstrating them.

If he loves and respects me he will be honest. I think I will know if he's being honest because he will be telling me things which are painful to hear. And/or he will back it up with proof.

I'm not planning on saying too much this evening. I think I've said a lot of what I needed to say already. I've kind of worked out in my own head the part I played in the dynamic but that isn't me excusing how he then behaved. It's more so that I can stop beating myself up about how it happened.

OP posts:
Weebirdie · 16/06/2015 19:52

Do you think you might have been his enabler?

Its what happened to me. I started off being the supportive wife who was supporting her husband for the sake of the family/the greater good and in the end I was his enabler because I lost sight of the person he was/is and the roles got very muddled. He was actually like a big giant sponge who just consumed me, I gave and he took because all the time I thought we were in it together. It was all about him. Everything was geared up so he could be the centre of the universe and I helped him to set it up and ended up setting myself up as well.

Maybe someone else can explain what I mean by being someones enabler in this context because I have a migraine today and cant think straight.

BloodontheTracks · 16/06/2015 20:08

Of course you shouldn't beat yourself up. If I can be so bold, if he says things that upset you he still may not be being wholly honest. He is obviously capable of fooling you and lying to you. All cheaters minimise when caught. All cheaters admit to certain things and not to others to preserve their view of themselves in their head. Please trust your evidence and gut over his words and demand proof of whatever you need. You are so primed to want to believe, make sure you give yourself space to weigh up what he's said in good time. And never feel embarrassed to come back here. Everyone has been in similar situations, there is no shame.