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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

999 replies

tomatoplantproject · 19/05/2015 07:16

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for Hmm
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

OP posts:
tomatoplantproject · 14/06/2015 21:35

Dd is back and fast asleep. She has been having lots of fun and her beloved rabbit has been tossed aside for a pair of foxes. Fickle little lady!!

He cried when he said goodbye to her. He has just thanked me for "allowing" them to spend time together.

I've been thinking about how the dynamics changed so much. I think when I got pregnant and then had dd I really struggled with the changes to my body and my identity and not being able to do all of the things that kept me "me" (like hard exercise - I ran and did spinning a lot, the sense of accomplishment that I got through working, having the odd blow out at the pub). I've had to find other things to give me those same feelings - making crafty things, the yoga, switching my social life to daytime from evening.

But I haven't ever really recovered my self esteem.

I think what has happened is that instead of helping me build my self esteem he just absorbed that energy himself and took more than he was giving. So the equilibrium was gone and rather than working to restore it he accepted the new state. It worked to his advantage.

Then he was in a sweet spot. Work was going well, he was spoiled at home and rather than thanking the powers that be every day for how lucky he was, he wanted yet another slice of pie.

The thing now is that I've found a few moments of peace recently. It's like I can see some of the pieces of the puzzle - dd, a job, yoga, my amazing family and friends. And the missing piece is him and who he is and whether we have a future together.

OP posts:
Christinayanglah · 15/06/2015 08:13

Is it your joint session tomorrow?

tomatoplantproject · 15/06/2015 08:50

Yep. I think that's why I'm trying to figure out the dynamics and how I got so lost.

Over the last few weeks I've been slowly reclaiming my life again and it's becoming more obvious that I stopped doing all of the things which keep me sane and give me confidence, and he just filled the vacuum with what he wanted - his interests, his opinions, his desires. I lost my voice.

This all coincided with his business taking off and becoming successful. Then he had the affair and the power imbalance got a lot worse.

Now he wants to rebuild.

OP posts:
tomatoplantproject · 15/06/2015 08:53

Sorry. I think I keep repeating myself.

OP posts:
Christinayanglah · 15/06/2015 09:26

I think you are doing the right thing in taking a step back from thinking about the relationship and focussing on yourself

Tomorrow night should really be him talking, so far I dontbthink he has demonstrated any reflection or insight. Sit back, watch and listen, meanwhile concentrate on discovering what you want

Christinayanglah · 15/06/2015 09:30

Not sure why he is wailing over dd now, he spent months discussing whether to leave her and potentially another child when it suited him

How often did he think he was going to see her when he moved in with the Italian bit?

Twinklestein · 15/06/2015 11:58

Now he wants to rebuild

Except he doesn't want to rebuild an equal relationship, he just wants the unbalanced one back that advantaged him.

And that'll just take a holiday right?

tomatoplantproject · 15/06/2015 13:03

He isn't rebuilding an unequal relationship because I think I've worked out what has happened. I'm not going to let that happen again. I'm not making any decisions about our future until I have a new job and am settled. I can't go back if the dynamics don't change, and the only way they can truly change for me is if I have a richer (not money but variety/stimulation) life.

I have to say I'm not particularly sympathetic to the tears. I see them, log them, but I don't feel sorry for him. I'm really tempted to snipe at him that this is what he was planning but I want to stop the sniping. I am not a snipey person and I don't want to become a snipey person.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 15/06/2015 15:08

The way the relationship developed is due to his character and attitude to life. That's not something you can let or not let happen. You would be saying effectively you can't let his character happen.

The relationship became imbalanced because he is a very self-focused person and he simply doesn't see you, your needs, your desires. He has a much bigger 'self' than you and he can't see beyond it. His 'self' takes up more room in his life and your relationship than yours. It's like a bigger plant blocking the light from a smaller plant. You'll always be asking him to play fair and he will always be trying to get as much light as he can for himself.

Alternatively, it's like being on a seesaw with someone who is a lot heavier than you. The plank will never be in balance, it will always be weighted in his favour.

Essentially if you want this relationship to work you will have to accept playing second fiddle. Even if you get your career back on track, gather your friends around you, you will always be in second place.

Weebirdie · 15/06/2015 15:51

Tomato, I have to admit to having a heart full of dread when I read your last few posts and whilst I understand your reasoning, I would just like to say - please take Twinkles posts on board because they say all there is to say about your situation. Yes, its all been said before and thats because its your reality.

Im really sorry. xx

AccordingtoMe · 16/06/2015 07:49

Good luck today Flowers

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 08:12

Thank you. Right now I'm not sure what I'm going to get out of going, aside from seeing whether he has had any major epiphanies since we last spoke.

Before tonight I have to deal with a slightly grumpy dd and sort out my cat who has lost his meow. The former should be sorted with our Tuesday activity and trip to the park and the latter with a trip to the vet.

OP posts:
Joysmum · 16/06/2015 10:17

Thinking of you today Tom Flowers

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 16/06/2015 10:58

I have been reading all the good advice not contributing but good luck this evening OP.

(The cat that lost its meow, the poor neglected garden you sorted out in your last thread. The jazz he professed to love that sounded discordant to you. Symbolic!).

I hope you

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 16/06/2015 10:59

Sorry posted too soon I hope you feel stronger now and keep regaining confidence.

MsPavlichenko · 16/06/2015 12:01

Yes, Good Luck tonight. Remember you can tell him what you want, without sniping !

BloodontheTracks · 16/06/2015 12:24

Hi tom. So bravo to you for getting your life on track and making yourself a priority, and frankly also returning here with such a good attitude despite sometimes hearing advice you can't like.

If you'd allow me to put in my penny's worth, here's what I observe.

My experience has taught me that the obly way to judge, predict and understand any of these shenanigans is through looking at the actions that take place, the actions of the narrative and relationship on their own, because they always tell the story truthfully in a way words just absolutely don't. I promise you this.

Here is my opinion of the actions. He had an affair. He half-heartedly ended and resumed it many times. He lied about it and you discovered it. After this he left the family home (prompted by you if I remember). He then made contact again with the OW (probably never really ended totally) and explored the possibility of a relationship with her, maybe seeing her and sleeping with her, depends on the practicalities. She eventually rejected the prospect of a long-term relationship with him. He hid all of this from you, lied about it and then decided rather than having nothing, he would say those things that would encourage you to take him back. You will take him back and you will commit to making an effort to keep yourself the sort of person you want to be.

You may think some of the above is supposition but I really believe that's what's happened and it fits all the facts way more than anything else. I think that's the story. You need to decide whether that is satisfactory for you.

Whatever you say, the signs for you taking him back have always been there. I'm a stranger on the internet and I was sure you would take him back, even when your words said otherwise. Principally because you have always maintained a line between the 'he' who had the affair and the 'he' you married and talked as if you had to work out which was 'real', Which is a completely understandable but ultimately self-protecting way of looking at things. It allows you to convince yourself that you can split him and then only be in a relationship with the latter, purer version of him when the time comes. When in fact, of course everyone is a sum of ALL their actions and one must integrate them into the whole man and then accept you are in a relationship with him to truly move forward.

If I could see that inevitability, I'm pretty sure your DH who knows you well could too.

I'm not saying you should 'leave the bastard'. I don't have a view on it. I'm just telling you what I perceive to be true.
In your latest posts you have committed to all the changes YOU will make to ensure that the relationship lasts. I am afraid that still places all the onus on you to 'make it work' where realistically almost all of it should be on him. Just changing what YOU will or won't put up with is not enough to make a relationship work, since it's relatively easy to hide behaviour from another.

It may well turn into an extension of what things were like before, put simply, you are making yourself responsible for his fidelity even though you are framing it in terms of personal development. I wonder what you would feel if you were to find out he had been unfaithful before in your marriage, multiple times. It is unlikely you will ever find out, since he has not even had the self-awareness and humility to be honest with you about his phone recently. But it is fairly likely that happened, since the vast majority of infidelity is never discovered and you came across his recent affair by chance, not confession.

I'm not saying he will necessarily cheat on you again, what he will have learnt from this is that he must say certain things to get what he wants. So he probably will. His actions go largely unchallenged.

I genuinely wish you the best of luck. It is my opinion that were you to genuinely detach and find a life without him first, and to accept that he is one man, with all the traits that have been exposed here and still decide you can make it work with him, and then if he were to be completely honest with you about what has happened, particularly with the OW recently and take the risk of your anger and loss, to show how different he is going to be moving forward, you would be on the first small step to making a new relationship from the wreckage. Without those beginnings, I fear we will see you back here as we have seen so many others in a couple of years, regretting brushing things under the carpet and calling it 'not sniping'. I truly hope not. All the best. Blood.

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 13:25

Thank you blood.

Maybe you're right. I have felt that somehow there is an inevitability that we would end up back together. That for the sake of dd I had to make the effort. His attitude has been completely different more recently too.

I have said that I don't believe his narrative of what happened with her after we split and that I need complete honesty. I am going to keep asking until I get the truth.

I've honestly been thinking about it a lot less than I had been. I've been doing lots of things just got me or me/dd. I actually don't know how to completely detach. I'm hoping that once I get a job that will help.

Hey ho. No decisions for a while.

In the meantime I have a chilled afternoon in the garden planned before we take my moggie to the vet.

OP posts:
DrMorbius · 16/06/2015 13:40

Tomato I am going to keep asking until I get the truth, how will you know you have reached the truth?

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 13:53

I don't know. But I do know I don't have it yet. If I had evidence that would help.

Someone (I think it was Blood) said the she knew someone who spoke to the ow and perhaps that is something I might want to do at some stage.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 16/06/2015 14:06

You say you need 'complete honesty', and in the next breath you say 'you'll keep going until you get it'.

In other words, you're not getting what you need, what you asked for. And you're the one doing all the work. The thing that would really help is not evidence but his being honest.

For DDs sake you really need to be sure that if you get back together it will hold. To get back together and then to split up again 1 or 2 years down the line would be more confusing and damaging than if you just split once.

CateCadiz · 16/06/2015 14:21

I have followed your story, and wondered if the reason you haven't had complete honesty may possibly be due to your refusing so far, to have any discussion, unless a third person - counsellor - is present. I think you have said that your husband has wanted to talk things through, but you declined. A good counsellor would actually want to know that you have already tried to thrash things out together, and would then attempt to help with whatever is blocking further movement, and guide and encourage closure of some kind. If I've read things wrongly, I apologise.

tomatoplantproject · 16/06/2015 14:22

But the "keep going until I get it" is having the same conversation over and over. I don't know what the timescale is but I'm going to get really bored of it at some stage.

I'm well aware that for dd's sake we can't get back together and split up. I'm not actually on the cusp of taking him back and playing happy families.

OP posts:
aftereight · 16/06/2015 14:28

It took 8 months for me to get the whole truth, and only then when I did my own investigations and presented him with it. That was more destructive than his affair.
His reasoning for not giving me the full facts? That telling me would destroy our relationship Confused
It may be an idea to point out to your H tonight that lies are worse than infidelity.

Twinklestein · 16/06/2015 14:33

Cate the conversation in which he refused to show his phone 'on principle' as OP wanted to check if he'd been in contact with OW, was not in front of a counsellor. He also said he couldn't be sure he wouldn't have another affair.

The latter comment is honest all right.