HOBBIT'S BAR - still finding it hard to move on ...part 8

[Izzie595]

Nobody understands the fully devastating impact of the ending of a marriage unless and until they experience it themselves

Welcome to Hobbit's Bar. Thread number 8.

The previous thread has been filled in less than a fortnight. Therefore, I've included below the post I did for Thread number 7. Links to all the threads in this series are below.
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This is the place where we meet to let it all out, to share experiences, to get support, and maybe give support if and when we feel able. And also to sometimes have a good laugh about things, because Hell, we've earned the right to laugh!

The bar is owned by Hobbit. She is adorable, kind, and bonkers. And lazy. So we take turns in running the bar for her ladyship.

I'm the latest proprietor of the bar. Izzie Age 54. Married 30 years. Two young adult sons living with me. Husband left to live with OW on Halloween last year. Very appropriate! No moves towards divorce or financial settlement at present. I started posting my own stuff on MN at the start of the year. Best thing I ever did. Well, I've had better successes in life, but you get my point, yes? I've been through the whole range of emotions, backwards, forwards, round and round: It's not a linear process by any means. And it does seem common to have a huge crash at 4 to 6 months in. Today I'm meh. Mostly.

There are a range of experiences in the Bar, generally at any one time. Examples: the early stages of separation; negotiating; legal matters; abuse in all forms; feeling stronger; having a major crash again; dealing with fuckwittery from the exes; financial worries; issues involving both young and adult children; moving towards the Mecca that is "meh". Basically, the whole works. Believe me, whatever you are currently experiencing, you are not alone.

My advice to any newbies: just jump in, but if you have the time and inclination, try reading all of the threads. You will see real women experiencing their bleakest moments, their progress, their dips, their innermost thoughts.

Rules of The Bar

1. Don't ask to join just come in
2. The phrase Party Pooper is banned. We may be having a good old giggle sometimes but someone in need must interrupt whatever is going on. We can't all be in sync, but someone in need ALWAYS takes priority
3. You are not obliged to give advice, reply to any posts, there are no expectations of you. Take what you want from the thread.

And just to ease you in, here are a few things you may wish to know:

1. An Izzietini is the bar drink.
2. A number 6 refers to rule number 6 in Hobbit's Twunts list. Reasons why they do things. Because they are....... Erm, no, the answer is not "misguided"
3. Mother, WellWhoKnew or WWK. Recently divorced, previous proprietor of the Bar and a legend of MN to those who followed her own threads. Also a legend on here for her straightforward advice. And keeps us in order.
4. Some of the posters also have their own threads. I hope they will do a link for you
5. There's a bad case of exclamationitis on here. Occurs when trying to put in a comma on ipad, but it auto corrects to an exclamation mark. So if you post and get a dodgy comment back, eg "Have you thought about counselling! sounds like you need help!".....please believe us that we are not sarky cows. Because the rule of exclamationitis is that we only spot it after we have posted!
6. Our sayings are "Shit, this is hard" and "KOKO", keep on keeping on
7. Our theme tune, to keep us going, is below

At the beginning of this year Fontella posted this on the first thread:

"Can I just say as more of a reader rather than a participant on this thread (I got shot of my lying, conniving, controlling ex 10 years ago) that this is fast turning into my favourite thread. Lots of powerful, courageous and funny (in a good way) women all coming together and supporting each other through an incredibly painful time. You are all fabulous!"

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

Part 7

Just read your 2nd post Roz - yes unfortunately he got to you this time, in that he managed to get you to interact with him which was his goal. It needs to happen once so you will know how to deal with it next time.

"That's his problem, not mine now." That's the important bit. Your counsellor should stop focusing on how his mind works now and concentrate on you. Him? he's a lost cause. Unfortunately we all want to know what went wrong and why they can do what they do

Luckily anything my stbx said was during mediation so it couldn't go any further than the "poor me" stage. The one time I interacted with him was for 1/2 hr in the car park after the 2nd mediation session. It did my head in for a couple of weeks after. We didn't even talk about anything personal. He was so full of excuses and deniability, and how we should sort it by email. (sent him 2 emails, he didn't reply, not doing that again)

I truly think that you are at the stage now where you don't have to listen to any of it. The trick is, if you do have to talk to him, do not be drawn into anything personal - no questions about his life now, or details of yours.

Fuckit sorry you're having such a crap time. If the kids have important exams coming up then get that sorted first. Hospital and dog this afternoon. How old is your dog? If you are in a school, then ½ term is coming up so you can get the other stuff sorted then

Well, bob I've always admired your figure, since you first walked into this bar .

My Twunt isn't the only one then? They do value their own opinions don't they? He keeps coming out with this crap as if he thinks I'll be hanging on his every word. I used to feel like I was a loyal Labrador, hoping for some crumbs of affection.

I was in the garden when he arrived. No hiding place. Not the first time he's ambushed me out there. When I'm at home I always keep a key turned in the lock, just in case.

I have been busy filling up my social calendar. In the next month I have booked an art exhibition (viewing not exhibiting), an evening with a well known journalist ( ds3 invited me to go with him), a talk by a favourite author, an archeological conference and an agricultural show. These are all either free or very cheap.

Perhaps, do you think, this is why he's attempting to assert control? Maybe? He doesn't know about any of this, but disordered people have some kind of sixth sense about their victims escaping their clutches.

He did say yesterday " I hope you have some moments of happiness". Decided not to piss him off with the truth which is that I'm always happy now except when I have contact with him. Ignored the comment.

Good morning fellow hobbiters, sorry to hear that today is not a great day for some of you.

I hate Sundays and Mondays - it means I get two doses of TwuntFace and always leaves me feeling in limbo, I don't know why as he makes it clear he's not ditching his new life - but he's turned into this "caring" person, he offers me more money, apologises for things and I do hope that today I am not going to have tears on my door step at leaving the children.
We don't have a divorce to go to as we were never married so he has been able to cut and run pretty easily, there has been no need for nicety (believe me he remained a dick for much of this) but lately he has softened somewhat towards me, even proclaiming that "even if he wanted to come back, I'd never trust him would I ?" " or well you have already said you'd never have me back" ... Then I think ah the blame game, perhaps he is blaming me for being away from his children and family life, it's just more guilt piled on me weekly - I already feel awful that he walked away so easily, now I just feel guilty that I am the thing stopping him being with his kids but then again he didn't fight and if he really wanted that he'd be banging down my door wouldn't he!!

OW is never mentioned anymore, I find it easier to pretend she has gone to hell - my gut tells me something is still going on but I'm not sure what as he has limited spare time and last week spent the evening moping at his mothers rather than wining and dining her!!

As always I don't know how these men just walk away from a family after a fumble with a tart - I often wonder if the coldness guilt etc is just a mask for the fact that they know they are stupid twatty twunts but to save face and rather than admit they are wrong they just push you further away.

Anyway wishing you all better days today.

bob, not currently seeing therapist! but she said herself! regarding Twunt's issues "that's not your problem now".

Fecking exclamation marks! I'm leaving them there, just for Izzie, if she happens along.

"Well, bob I've always admired your figure, since you first walked into this bar" Hahaha kinky or what

"I hope you have some moments of happiness" Big Lol It's like he thinks you'll just fade away into a snivelling heap without him. I found over the years that flippancy worked really well with stbx. This is something I use a lot now, on here and in everyday life. It's my default for anything serious. So an answer to what your ex said would be met with an airy "I'm fine" . Btw he hated it as he realised he wasn't getting to me

"they know they are stupid twatty twunts but to save face and rather than admit they are wrong they just push you further away."

You hit the nail on the head Bambino And of course it will be all your fault

It's great that you have managed to make a life for yourself without having to rely on him especially as you aren't married. It's amazing how some of them still want to keep the door open even though they've walked/shagged their way away

bobs123
I just don't understand these men, I guess we never will.
I do understand people are unhappy in relationships, don't get me wrong I wasn't jumping through the fields of daisies everyday but to not even mention that you were so unhappy that you had contemplated shagging your coworker - it just makes me wonder if they were really that unhappy or the excitement makes them feel like their lives aren't that exciting at all and really the new fuck buddy is where their life should begin.

Sometimes I feel weak because I do not hate him, I don't feel anger towards him not proper anger, not the anger id like to feel - it's all excuses in my head that a man who loved us so much could have some sort of idiotic moment and that has caused him to lose his family.
Then I remember that it is his choice not to help raise a 3 and 4 year old who are so full of love and wonderment ( he sees them once a week, I am sorry but to me that is not being a hands on father! ) - I am lucky that it is not me that has filled these children with the anxiety of being left, because they will always know that I would never leave them.

I don't miss him. I just hate that I was so easy to leave. That his children weren't worth fighting for - that he didn't even want to talk about it.

I'm not sure if I believe in karma but I long for the day that he is bit on the bum and realises that those 3 people he drives away from every week were the ones who he had the best life with - not the tart who would rather shag him than be at home with her own child and husband.

Its like he thinks you'll just fade away into a snivelling heap without him - that's exactly what he thinks.
Apparently his counsellor asked him how long I would take to get over Twunt leaving and he replied "Never! She'll never get over it in her whole life!"

Flippancy, I'll work on flippancy. Mind you, he did once crossly ask me if I had to make a joke about everything. I made a jokey reply.

Yeah - mine once said I'd miss him when he was gone

I've been re-reading some of my posts on MN from eons ago. In 2004 I thought I'd got him sussed and was learning to live with a "difficult" man and the secret was in being able to talk to each other. By 2010 I realised talking didn't work. I had detached from so he couldn't ever get to me, but had told him if he ever tried the same shit on the DC our marriage would be over. I had the "benefit" of being with him long enough that I feel I know him better than he knows himself. He would deny this of course because he is incapable of reasonably explaining his actions.

Jokey replies really wind them up when they're trying to mess with your head. That was my armour.

Bambino this might sound wrong, but it is good that at least he is seeing them once a week. Sometimes DC have a better relationship with an "absent father". And it will give you the opportunity to have time for you too.

I am spending way too much time on here atm. I am so bored!!! Yes I need to get a proper job but want all this to be settled before I do so. Plus I am taxi-ing DD2 about with her A Levels. I tried to find out about free online courses - IT and such. vision2learn seems to be the site for this. However apparently you can't do these course on a Mac

bobs have a look at coursera too, lots a free courses on there. I'm starting one today.

I can't 100% be sure i miss H, I miss having a life plan, feeling secure etc. but I think he detached emotionally long ago and he's been such a bastard to live with, I'm not really sure I miss him being in the house. I did initially but not sure I do now.

according to me love the pussy cats - have a soft spot for gingers [ smile] had one who lived until he was 17 1/2 years !

fuckit sorry you are having a shite day - think this shitey shitey weather doesn't help either! You know sometimes when you are feeling a bit down, it is easy to think that others are viewing you in a bad way when it is NOT always the case - we can be too hard on ourself and sometimes it is just that person's own personal shit ( I do realise though that you are having work issues,,not trying to minimise them ) I remember "in the early days" that I was convinced I was being followed by people - how bizarre is that??The brain is a stupid stupid thing at times - and very lazy too according to the experts - it takes the easiest line of thought sometimes which is not always the most sensible or accurate. ( I will try to find the programme I watched about this - all to do with the brain - feelings etc ) You seem to have a lot on your plate so just do it a step at a time. Don't know how you managed that with the baby present - you are a better woman then me! Hope your dog is Ok today x

Now my turn - I need some handholding today for tomorrow - feeling very apprehensive for tomorrow when he is coming to pick up "his stuff" - I will not be there as I have to go to a funeral. Just dreading returning from it and finding it all gone. Why is that? I feel so scared.It's all so fucking shite - he should be there showing his condolences to someone who has been very good to him - instead he is hosting his own little pity party for himself.

afternoon everyone - just trying to catch up with all posts- thread moves so quickly

just a couple of comments -Im with the others that doesn't expect whoever's hosting bar to have to welcome newcomers or reply to posters - see it more that whoever is up to it or has time or wants to just to dig in. Im not around for the night shift and tend to be on during morning or day so will do my bit as and when.

Also apologies but I dont reply to all threads either - I do read and comment if I feel particularly strong about something or something has made me laugh which is normally the case -wise your cards have made me laugh especially the "c8nt" one! but find it difficult to keep up with everyone.

home i find this v interesting If the court becomes aware that one parent is trying to alienate a child against another parent they view that as a form of abuse - yet they don't acknowledge the abuse that we have all suffered and what about if you are trying to protect the child from being subject to the same manipulative/controlling beahviour!

I have had an interesting chat with my GP today on abuse - i have been to see him to find out what X spoke to him about last week re DS and to say that both of us having to see him independently just adds to the difficulty I am already experiencing in this process. Whereas he acknowledges I am being abused if the X also tells him he is feeling abused he has to acknowledge this too -so we are both being abused then - isnt this more of a head fuck!!!!

bobs you give some really good advice on kids - i have noticed my two are always a bit tetchy when they come back from spending time with X and although I get lots of hassle here I know they dont want to spend anymore time with him as I too have given them the choice - so it says it all really.

An oldie but a goodie!

wise thank you re; my cats. I have wanted another ginger cat ever since I lost my first one around age 12. he had been born in my bed.

Hope it all goes well for you tomorrow, do you trust him not to take what he shouldn't? or have a rummage? not sure I would have liked it much either but then mine made sure he engineered it so he could be there when I left, perhaps to make sure I didn't take anything I shouldn't. Makes me mad now, there are still things there that belong to me but I cant afford to get them yet (man with van costs)

I do understand what you are saying about 1 day a week being quality time etc - he makes a good effort with them yes when he has them.
I do not doubt his abilities as a father, for the most part he has always been good.
But there is more to raising children than quality time, I do not get one whole interrupted day with my children, I have school runs, work, a house to maintain, dinners to cook and all the other mundane things that come with life and that is what I meant - he has a single mans life, one day with his children and six effectively with only work involved.

Today he has dropped the children back - sometimes I'd rather he was still being a horrible twat to me .. The niceties on the door step and hour of chit chat always makes me feel a bit up in air, he was so awful to me when this started yet now the air has cooled and I don't know feels like a storms brewing but I'm not sure why I feel like this.

Wise I too was out when his stuff was picked up so came home to a clean, tidy and him-free house. But, of course, there was mixed feelings - sadness that it had come to this but gladness because he had no reason to come to the house at all now. It's probably the first sign that this is becoming 'your home' so if you can, have a think about moving some furniture around, redecorating or treating yourself to some replacement stuff. I know it's bizarre but it does help a bit. It normalises after a while.

Having a sad day today as I've been sorting out stuff from many, many years ago, back in the pre-digital camera days, the two of us looking happy and doing stuff together. It's like a marriage of two halves - the picture perfect scenes and the shit behind closed doors. The lies, the deception, all hidden by the photos. I'd forgetten I had most of this stuff so half wanting a journey down memory lane and half just not wanting to look at it. I wish I could turn back time and never have met him. Just said 'oh hello' and walked away. Am I alone in this?

green MrSW was forever complaining that me and SHL were bullying him, but if you'd asked me, it was the other way round. It was a complete headfuck indeed! The thing to focus on, of course, is not what 'he says' but how you feel and take it from there. They can be amazingly 'woe is me' these people who created all this damage!

WWK this "I wish I could turn back time and never have met him. Just said 'oh hello' and walked away. Am I alone in this?"

No, you are definitely not alone.

I really wish I had run when my instincts told me to. I was doing so well, I was so happy and had a job I loved. I gave it all up because I was totally "love bombed" by him and thought he was all I needed to be "happy ever after"

I really really wish I'd known about MN at this time, I could have learned about red flags, slowed the fuck down when I should have, everything.

Maybe met someone else instead of him, someone who would have truly loved and appreciated me instead of leaving me here in my mid forties licking my wounds yet again.

Why didn't I know I could make "happy" happen just being by myself doing the things I loved. as I was back then.

Now I am starting all over again. Right back where I was before I met him.

I feel like an idiot.

green I agree I think it's wrong that the authorities seem to have this idea that its possible for a dad to abuse the mum but as long as he's fine with the kids that's ok, he can keep seeing them. I hope that one day the courts and ss will acknowledge that abusing the mum is also abusing the child but I fear we have a long way to go before that is accepted by the powers that be. My ex is getting horribly abusive again now, no suprise I expected it but its my DS I'm worried for not me, because of the nasty things he will tell him about me, it really messes with his emotions when his dad does that.

WWK this "I wish I could turn back time and never have met him. Just said 'oh hello' and walked away. Am I alone in this?" I am sure you are not! (Except I wouldn't have my lovely son.)

Also liked whoever said the other day " it looks like him on the outside but not inside" ( sorry too lazy to browse back)..how true...

Home I agree with you BUT it is very very difficult to evidence.

The court system has a very basic principle in child and family cases, evidence to meet the "threshold criteria" of abuse takes time. Evidence of abuse where there is lot of "he said" "she said" and the courts are highly resistant to get involved. Fact finding hearings are not pleasant.

The evidence therefore is going to be the effect it has on the children, over a period of time, whereby that evidence can be tested for accuracy. Where it is possible to provide a before and after scenario, of the well being of that child.

Its bloody hard to do.

Its equally harder for the poor child involved, going through all that shit just to provide "evidence" for the courts to make a decision.

The system needs a shake up that's for sure.