HOBBIT'S BAR - still finding it hard to move on ...part 7

[Izzie595]

Nobody understands the fully devastating impact of the ending of a marriage unless and until they experience it themselves.

Welcome to Hobbit's Bar. Thread number 7.

This is the place where we meet to let it all out, to share experiences, to get support, and maybe give support if and when we feel able. And also to sometimes have a good laugh about things, because Hell, we've earned the right to laugh!

The bar is owned by Hobbit. She is adorable, kind, and bonkers. And lazy. So we take turns in running the bar for her ladyship.

I'm the latest proprietor of the bar. Izzie Age 54. Married 30 years. Two young adult sons living with me. Husband left to live with OW on Halloween last year. Very appropriate! No moves towards divorce or financial settlement at present. I started posting my own stuff on MN at the start of the year. Best thing I ever did. Well, I've had better successes in life, but you get my point, yes? I've been through the whole range of emotions, backwards, forwards, round and round: it's not a linear process by any means. And it does seem common to have a huge crash at 4 to 6 months on. Today I'm meh. Mostly.

There are a range of experiences in the Bar, generally at any one time. Examples: the early stages of separation; negotiating; legal matters; abuse in all forms; feeling stronger; having a major crash again; dealing with fuckwittery from the exes; financial worries; issues involving both young and adult children; moving towards the Mecca that is "meh". Basically, the whole works. Believe me, whatever you are currently experiencing, you are not alone.

My advice to any newbies: just jump in, but if you have the time and inclination, try reading all of the threads. You will see real women experiencing their bleakest moments, their progress, their dips, their innermost thoughts.

Rules of The Bar

1. Don't ask to join just come in.
2. The phrase Party Pooper is banned. We may be having a good old giggle sometimes but someone in need must interrupt whatever is going on. We can't all be in sync, but someone in need ALWAYS takes priority.
3. You are not obliged to give advice, reply to any posts, there are no expectations of you. Take what you want from the thread.

And just to ease you in, here are a few things you may wish to know:

1. An Izzietini is the bar drink.
2. A number 6 refers to rule number 6 in Hobbit's Twunts list. Reasons why they do things. Because they are....... erm, no, the answer is not "misguided".
3. Mother, WellWhoKnew or WWK. Recently divorced, previous proprietor of the Bar and a legend of MN to those who followed her own threads. Also a legend on here for her straightforward advice. And keeps us in order.
4. Some of the posters also have their own threads. I hope they will do a link for you.
5. There's a bad case of exclamationitis on here. Occurs when trying to put in a comma on ipad, but it auto corrects to an exclamation mark. So if you post and get a dodgy comment back, eg "Have you thought about counselling! sounds like you need help!".....please believe us that we are not sarky cows. Because the rule of exclamationitis is that we only spot it after we have posted!
6. Our sayings are Shit, this is hard and KOKO, keep on keeping on.
7. Our theme tune to keep us going, is below.
8. Jess is our sausage snuffling mascot. Owned by Hobbit, she pops up every now and again to entertain us and to dispense her own brand of advice. She says it as it is. She is currently busy knitting herself some new hats.

At the start of the year Fontella posted this on the first thread:

"Can I just say as more of a reader rather than a participant on this thread (I got shot of my lying, conniving, controlling ex 10 years ago) that this is fast turning into my favourite thread. Lots of powerful, courageous and funny (in a good way) women all coming together and supporting each other through an incredibly painful time. You are all fabulous!"

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

I always seem to pop up when you girls are having fun sorry ladies ignore me, I will be laughing with you soon, I'm sure, and helping out the new ones, feeling a bit stronger yep sainsburys cava again, muvvas fault, she made me drink it

Frizzy I think we've probably all gone through the love him, hate him thing. There are a hell of a lot of conflicting emotions that go on for a long time, still have them to some extent.

I'm not surprised that you are shocked. The shock stays with you for a long time. Only he knows if he's being totally honest with you, I hope he is. Do you think depression could be a possibility? x

frizzy as proprietor of the bar! may I remind you of the rules. One of which is there is no such thing as a party pooper. So don't apologise! I will join you in a drink. A flat izzietini. Consisting of wine been opened at least a fortnight, and flat cream soda. Now even I would agree that's a shit drink?

We don't want to ignore you Frizzy so keep posting. We can multi task and do sympathy and giggles at the same time. Enjoy your cava x

Frizzy it really sounds like he's heading for a breakdown. Have any of his family commented, or friends? If you don't want to comment, I entirely understand.

iwas is right for once yes we can multitask

Well the mother of all showdowns just happened. Dd wasn't well at all and had been in bed all day, no word from him all weekend. I told dd that I would help her muck out ( despite really not not being fit for it ) as I didn't want her to have to do it. Then she comes down all worked up and I couldn't get out of her what was wrong, she was just cross. Said her dad had texted to ( guess what) take her to Starbucks before he went out for the night !
She had obviously got herself worked up into a state and didn't know what to do so it kind of came out at me. I told her that her father could take her to do horse and talk to her there rather than take her to Starbucks ( am I wrong or does this seem sensible ? ) So she got all uptight but I took her down but in meantime texted him to tell him in a very plain way that he should get his priorities sorted. Left my phone at home, took her down, she fell asleep in car and far as I knew when we got home she went to bed... I thought to sleep. Arsehole txt back abuse and how he's coming to house to see her and I should get out while he's there or stay in one room. Naturally I told him to not come and that she wasn't up to it and of course more abuse and he comes anyway. I warned him not to but got the whole"this is my house" shit and phone the police if you want etc etc
Hu turns up banging on door and poor Dd gets caught up with us arguing, me telling him to stay half an hour then leave, him having a go at me. She got dressed and we thought went outside. So he stands arguing and I finally let him have both barrels of what I thought of him. Problem was dd had gone walkabout and we stupidly hadn't noticed because we were too busy arguing.
She has since come home, texted us both to tell us it's not fair on her, which it's not but I feel a real shit for letting her see some of this.
I told him this should never have happened ( though no doubt he blames me) . I had made such fantastic progress with dd and now he's gone and shit all over it. I am determined this cannot happen again but how can you do it ?
Does anyone know if mediation to discuss this problem can be ordered because I know he will refuse.... Oh and apparently I made his life a misery and it was me who abused him !!! I think he was genuinely shocked by how vicious I was towards him but I couldn't help it, it all came out.... Sorry this is so long but I actually feel ashamed of myself and my own dd wants me nowhere near her. Mind you she didn't want him either.

Ali don't be hard on yourself. It was an understandable reaction, and quite frankly, he had it coming, and it shows him you're not going to lie down and take it. Of course it's unfortunate that DD was witness to it. But I'm sure most children have been witness to parental rows. Mine certainly were. That's life. It's good that she texted both of you. She's not blaming you, is she? As for further occurrences, all you can do is to try to ensure you are never face to face with him. If that's practical. He's a nasty piece of shite, to put it mildly. I don't have a DD, but I do know that girls tend to be more dramatic, hence her reaction. The point is, you did make progress yesterday. I don't believe this episode has wiped all that. And I do wonder if texting both of you, and not laying the blame at your door, is some acknowledgment of that.

Oh dear ali unfortunately there are bound to be outbursts like this while feelings are running so high and kids do get caught in the middle. I would apologize to DD when she calms down and just say you're struggling to deal with it all and it isn't her fault.

Mediation is only ever voluntary. I don't have much experience of this as when I separated my stbx already had no contact with DDs. I'm. Sure others can advise and there must be online help on how to deal with this

Ali I am sorry sweetheart. Unfortunately arguments happen from time to time in these situations and sometimes the children get caught in the middle. I don't think your DD blames you, as Izzie says she texted both of you. She hasn't sided with her dad like she was doing before.

Tell her that you love her, you're sorry she witnessed it and be there to listen if she wants to talk.

I'm sorry but I don't have any experience of mediation so can't help on that one. Your ex is making it so much harder for all of you with his attitude. x

Thank you Izzie and Bobs I think he just pissed me off so much after not having seen him and then him returning expecting to walk in here and whilst I can't stop him, because house in both names. I am really mad at myself for letting it happen in front of dd but every time he tried to put me down I came back at him laughing and saying how he was just a typical EA who was trying to control me. I think the fact that I was coming at him from a very different angle caught him off guard but he still tried to talk me down, you know the way they repeat the same sentence over and over again and I just told him I wasn't one of his fucking criminals he was questioning and I wasn't having it any more. If dd hadn't of been there, I actually think I would have felt happy after it (him standing halfway up my stairs with his 2 melting ice creams looked rather pathetic) BUT it cannot happen again for dd sake.
Thanks Bobs I am just going to send forms off although he did say earlier that he was paying more than enough... Which I have no idea about spousal wise.... Sorry to rant yet again xxx

Evening everyone. My lovely eldest 2 DC have come home for revision leave today and it's so great to see them. Feel sad too though, as they are so pleased to be home - tucked into roast dinner, walked dog etc. They've no idea that their family is a sham. He's a total tosser to be able to look at them, our youngest, our home, me (not as glam as Ali admittedly but not ageing too badly either I hope) and think throat there's something/someone better for an ageing, balding, self centred, opinionated and frankly grumpy middle aged man out there. Good luck to him but still feel broken hearted for DC. Liking music

Throat = that !!

Perhaps 'throat' was a Freudian slip. I'd like certainly like to grab him by it.....

izzie and iwas do you two really hate me that much that you are trying to set me up with Sid! Gaaahhhhh I know enough about him to choose a nunnery thank you!

Ali that's shit, I'm so sorry. I remember me and H had some humdingers, once he actually had me at breakdown point In the garden, bawling my eyes out and exclaiming loudly I was not going to fucking be with him anymore. DD bedroom window, which overlooked the garden, was wide open and she heard it all. She was around 9 years old then.. I still feel like shit for it :(

Anybody on here have any thoughts on spousal maintenance? After much wearing me down on the subject I verbally agreed with him I wouldn't have it. Anyhow since he has given me his parenting plan which seems to make me financially responsible for everything. And I'm not sure I can afford it all. I had at least expected half for school bus fares (1,500 a year) and uniforms. Where on earth does he think I will find the money!

Hello 1, it's lovely when the children are home, but yes it is hard keeping up appearances. Liked your throat quip!

According no we don't, I think I did a disclaimer as you are far too nice for Sid. Let me know what nunnery you choose and I will come and join you! Preferably a Cornish one so if I get bored Poldark can whisk me away on his horse.

Toast sorry I can't help with that one, we've sorted the finances out between us. Could you draw up a list of all the expenses you have including a separate one for the children to show that you need more than has been suggested.

Toast have you both done full disclosure? IE have you got a full list of each others/joint assets?
Also have you filled in a reasonable needs form showing how much you both need to live on.

I think you wrote that you have just started mediation? Until you have these figures you should not agree to anything. any verbal agreement - even at mediation - is not binding, so you can change your mind.

If you are earning less than him then spousal would normally be appropriate - or a much larger share of the family home/other assets. It depends what you reasonably need to live on for yourself and the DC, and also what his needs are.

according and Iwashappy relieved to know that I'm not the only one but I do still feel very sorry for her. 1 lol, trust me I am not glam ! But wanted to say about a new friend opened up to me recently that her h had left her once when her kids were v young. She took him back and he carried on doing whatever he wanted until she decided about a year and a half ago that she'd had enough and wanted him to leave but she let him stay until he had enough money to find somewhere to live. They continued to live with their now dc at 17 and 15 and slept in same bed but leading separate lives. They didn't tell dc until just before he moved out ( a year and a bit later ). Now I know I couldn't do it but somehow she managed. I think she had had enough and in that last year she really got her life in order. I admire her and you very much because I certainly couldn't manage. The thing is she is doing really well but the kids actually are doing well too... I found this bizarre but somehow the transition was easier when they sat kids down and said 'this is what's happening' you obviously have balls of steel and hats off to you. I'm not sure exactly what I'm trying to say other than you can come through through this the better person. Xxx

I don't earn anything really. I've taken on a couple of cleaning jobs as At the moment he's paying all the bills and I'm worried he will stop and leave us with nothing.

I gave up work 18 years ago when first DC was born as he worked away and then long hours and it just wasn't practical for me to work as well. Plus he liked having me at home.

So financially I'm screwed.

We have completed forms and I'm due back at my solicitor this week but she doesn't give me any answers about what I could get, just asks what I want.

toast try the Wikivorce calculator. Link here
Wikivorce calculator

ali sorry but, fucking good for you for letting the bastard have it. And of course I stand by what I posted earlier about DD.

1 I feel for you having to put on the show. It's horrible too, knowing what's going to happen. From the comment recently made by DS though, I doubt it will be a total surprise. My two, after the initial various feelings, their main feeling was relief. A while ago I asked DS2 if he felt it was better at home. He said yes a lot better, although not it's not the way he would have chosen to achieve that. But both are a lot happier at home. DS1 told me a long time ago that he never felt relaxed at home. Even when things were fine. It all takes its toll.

According when it comes to drawing the short straw for Sid, it's every woman for herself. If it's any consolation, though, no I don't hate you. I just love myself more!

Just watching the news. Heard about the Welsh rugby player who died aged 29. I don't know anything about rugby, but to all the Welsh ladies on here, so sorry. Tragic.

toast I don't know about your circumstances but it sounds inconceivable that he won't have to pay spousal. The wikivorce calculator explains a bit more. Also do a few searches. Anyway, he will be responsible for supporting the children.

Toast, it sounds as though you are in a similar position to me. After 15 years of being at home, I'm hearing 'you didn't bring anything in. I pay the mortgage. I pay the pension. Why should you get anything?'
Funny how every woman I've told this to gets it immediately, that it is equal to but is not valued, and he just doesn't see that I enabled him.

The mediator suggested that him paying the mortgage forms part of the spousal maintenance. I'm seeing a solicitor on Wednesday so if that brings up anything useful I will share it.

I'm asking for as much as possible. The way I see it, he could find a younger model and have more kids. I need to ring fence as much as possible to provide for my kids and my future. Two-thirds of pensioners living in poverty are divorced women. That is frightening.

He doesn't want to pay it. Says it's unfair and I can earn enough by claiming benefits.

I understand why he doesn't want to pay it (it affects him getting a mortgage) but that isn't the point. His theory is he thinks it's only fair if he is the only one to take them on holidays and buy them nice things. So I don't need the money for that.

toast try this as a starting point
www.marilynstowe.co.uk