3rd letter from my in laws!!!! omfg!!!

[inmyshoos]

For anyone who might remember my previous posts from my fil I wanted to share the 3rd which arrived today!!! I think i might explode if i dont share it with someone!!

Dear shoos and dhofshoos,
I wrote to you on 10/2/2015 asking you to detail what you consider the problems are between the four of us; and again on the 25/3/2015 asking you both if you wished to be involved in a number of family events that will be happening this year, and also asking you to consider allowing the dc to be included in these family occasions. To date i have received no reply.
Therefore not having received the courtesy of replies to my letters, I can only assume that you both wish to sever all ties with us.
However our door will remain open, but, remember, the longer the door remains open the colder the house becomes.
There are no winners in this situation, only losers. There are losses in the short term and lisses in the long term.
I hope this finds you both well and that your futures are secure.
Regards fil/dad
P.s we will be passing through your area on return from a holiday on the 20th may if you would like to meet us for something to eat?
Pps Give the dc our love.

OMG please someone hit me with a stick! I don't know if i want to laugh or cry!!!

That makes sense Molly. If you haven't experienced that level of dysfunction and/or seen it affect someone you love it is very difficult to comprehend how awful and destructive it can be.

I understand it comes from a good place (families are nurturing and loving) - but it's really hurtful to the person who's experiencing this, because it's such a difficult and upsetting thing to talk about. Being met with comments like 'oh it can't be that bad', 'how could you do that to your mum' etc. It's really minimising and unkind.

I've never, ever come across a person who has gone NC and hasn't agonised over the decision. You can't cut someone off and not have any feekings about it unless you have some sort of personality disorder. It usually comes after years and years of abusive treatment and much heart searching.

Of course the overriding issue her is that the OP should be supporting the decision of her DH regarding his parents.

Flip - you are absolutely right about it being so difficult to talk about. I went NC with my parents over 2 years ago now and only my DH, siblings and supportive MIL and SIL know the story. A couple of other people know I don't have any contact but no idea why and it is not something I talk about really. Feels like the world is waiting to judge you/ convince you that family has to stick together etc. The isolation/ feeling of having a 'dirty little secret' just adds to the hurt/ trauma surrounding NC in the first place.

Joy - of course the OP needs to prioritising her poor DH. Such a difficult time for both of then but it is his parents after all

Rather late to the thread, but I don't see any olive branches in that letter. It's not conciliatory at all. If they were sorry or wanted to make amends they could say so, couldn't they - it's not difficult to do so.

The fact that relationships are complicated and life is short doesn't mean the OP and her DH have to put up with this difficult relationship that seems to bring them no benefit at all.

OP, I'm sorry you've had a hard time and I'm not surprised you're confused and seeking advice/reassurance. I think in your place I would remain NC as long as your DH wants to. It doesn't have to be permanent, necessarily. In fact I would advise against a 'pee or get off the pot' mindset. I would not be at all surprised if a letter putting it in writing that you want to go permanently NC is just what your FIL is needling for, as definitive 'proof' of how selfish and unreasonable you are and to justify him in cutting you out of the will, etc etc.

maryz could you share with me things i have said that make me sound like i might be a difficult person and unwilling to compromise? I mean that in a completely genuine way. It would be useful to know because i am open to the possibility they find me difficult but other than having my own ideas I am not sure why.

nesshitto you don't have to apologise. To clarify what actually happened. Pil, bil and his family and dh, myself and dc were all together having a meal. I have never allowed my dc to have aspartame and we generally avoid artificial sweetners in general. Pil know this and mil has very kindly in past bought squash free from these things for my dc, so they know this. Fil thinks its a load of shit. So during this meal pil offer all the gc a drink. Fil says if they want they can have lemonade. I said nothing as like i said it is not an everyday thing so i am fine with that. However my eldest dc looks at the ingredients and says 'actually it has aspartame in it so we can't have that'. My fil shakes his head, rolls his eyes and mumbles something about aspartame doing you know harm unless you drink a gallon a day. I actually said nothing at all. So i don't think I was rude. Nor do i think my child saying he couldnt have it was rude either as he has grown up knowing this is something we don't have.

The question about why we dont just get on with it and say we dont want any contact is simple. Mil suggested it. She said 'fil and i have talked about it and we jhst shouldnt see each other'. It took a LOT but the next dsy my dh said to his Mum 'i am not happy. Can we talk?' Mil actually ushered him out saying 'no'.
That was the last time we saw them.
It is not my call. Dh has his head buried until the phone rings. He can't even read this 3rd letter but asked i give him a summary. I would love his mum to love my dc like she does the other gc. She is a lovely gran to them. Nc is a last resort. But i dont think they will EVER change. There letters make me sure of that.
For a long time i have seen the horrible side of fil but i always liked mil. I though we got on ok so to hear what she actually thinks was a complete shock. It is so hurtful. And poor dh to hear that his mum 'doesnt really know him anymore'. He is hurt beyond belief, he too always believed his mum was ok and that fil was the problem.

That's very undermining of FIL re the aspartame.

I think if MIL can't treat all GC equally, yours are better off without her completely.

Going NC is really tough - sounds easy, but to stick to your guns is really difficult. I went NC with dad 8 years ago and in the next 2 years went through a grieving process similar to that when somebody dies. Because the effect is the same - NC means you won't see them again. You have the same sense of loss and grief.
When I start to question why I am NC, I just remind myself that the dad I want (kind, loving, interested in me and my family) just doesn't exist. He never existed.

So my advice is not to play at this. If you want to go NC, that's OK but be ready for all the grief and pain that comes with working through the decision.
If you do not intend to be NC long term, accept it and behave accordingly.
Write back saying you need space at the moment and do not want any contact for a while until things have settled down. Create space but leave the door open and spare yourself all the pain that goes with a decision to go NC permanently.

Is your dh and/or you able to discuss all these past and present issues with the other brother/sil? May be a way for you to receive rl support and strengthen other family ties.

But the letter is clearly very odd and controlling.

If this is an olive branch, it's one that's not grown from a healthy and happy tree. It's distorted and it's damaged.

toast I really think that all you can do is to reply in a written letter what you've said here

Mil suggested it. She said 'fil and i have talked about it and we just shouldnt see each other'. It took a LOT but the next dsy my dh said to his Mum 'i am not happy. Can we talk?' Mil actually ushered him out saying 'no'

Write that down. Tell them that you are respecting their wishes and that you do not know why they keep changing their minds but you have had enough. Losses are a part of life. Then send it and most of all do not open another letter, refuse to sign for any recorded letters and block their number from your phone.

Ther'es been a lot of crap thrown at you here and sometimes Mumsnet folk do say NC too easily but it's your life and your husbands, YOURS, and your husband doesn't want to see them. That's what's important here. It isnt about you and if you're ' difficult' or not (which I dont think you sound at all, you jsut sound hurt and upset and disbelieving of the whole thing to me).

It's quite odd to me why some people seem to say you're being unreasonable when your husband's parents have behaved in such a way that he truly does not want to see them, and they have stated they do not want to see him. He's entitled to do what he wants with his life as long as it's not at the expense of other people, and his parents have caused him a great deal of grief.

I quite agree meerka

The OP DH doesn't want to see them, but it's the OP being told she is being unreasonable and difficult .

Where are people seeing the "inheritance threat"-I can't see it, although I admit I don't know the back story?

OP knows the motivation better than anyone else but it looks like FIL is trying to appear very rational and attempting not to sound emotionally manipulative.

There are no winners in this situation, only losers. There are losses in the short term and lisses in the long term.

I hope this finds you both well and that your futures are secure.

That sounds like a inheritance threat.

I couldn't see the inheritance threat until it was pointed out. The aspartame stuff sounds like utter nonsense to me although others have seen it as inflammatory. So, I guess the moral of this thread is that sometimes you have to be there. If it's worth NC to the OP then it is. But this has been an interesting thread in that it hasn't been totally clear cut.

I see the inheritance threat very clearly, but then I'm used to a Victorian, controlling and subtle father :/

However our door will remain open, but, remember, the longer the door remains open the colder the house becomes.
There are no winners in this situation, only losers. There are losses in the short term and lisses in the long term.
I hope this finds you both well and that your futures are secure.

"the colder the house becomes" kind of fits in with that too.

Well I can see now it is pointed out that it could be read that way.
In any case it does sound like a kind of final approach and if you ignore it you are likely to hear nothing further even if it does involve being disinherited.
If they really are that bad it could be well worth it.

Not knowing the people involved the letter didn't seem unreasonable to me on first reading but obviously OP knows him better.

Well the inheritance threat is leaping out at me but maybe that's because it's exactly the kind of language my mother used to me just before storming off and emigrating and disinheriting me. Also, parents like this typically use inheritance threats so it's probably not the first such threat. it's a way to control.

And it can be provoked by very little, very controlling people can take all sorts of slights and magnify them and then explode and over react and then typically the inheritance threats start.

When you are used to growing up with behaviour like this, or if you find yourself in an abusive relationship your level of perception goes to a whole new level

I can tell from footsteps along a hallway, or the way he opens a door if my ex is in a mood. Likewise children of manipulative parents can spot the message when others can't. They will just feel a small tug of fear, but it's enough.

That letter positively drips poisonous intent, every single character is placed with precision.

Agree with Hissy - the threat is definately there. With manipulative, abusive people like OPs FIL (and my own mum) EVERY little word, EVERY action is there for a reason. This letter was carefully written to APPEAR reasonable and as though he is trying to mend things, the real meaning is in the subtle wording... This is part of the act, everything is done for show. That way if OP/ DH shows the letter to anyone else the real intent can be denied! They know that the people they are trying to hurt know the real meaning, but hoping they will look crazy/ paranoid if they show the letter to others. This level of deception is how they operate - they will do anything to avoid the mask slipping... The most abusive people are often spoken about by others as being 'charming' and 'such a nice guy'. That is how they slip under the radar and are able to abuse those close to them for years, if not decades

I lived on the outside (sometimes dragged in, sometimes managed to stay out) of a very difficult family for a very long time. And I saw a lot of what you describe, Milly. But I also saw a kind of heightened sensitivity that could sometimes be (I would say) inaccurate. Nobody ever spoke or sounded "normal" because they were so aware of previous communication and so aware that most of what they said would be received as negative. Nothing was superficial, nobody was ever given the benefit of the doubt, everything had a hidden message. I totally agree that it's no way to live and that if OP and her husband don't want anything to do with it, then that's all that needs to be said. But I have found the range of responses to the letter fascinating.

Milly your last post describes my exH (slightly OT, but he will be someone's FIL someday...sadly!). He is described as charming, and to his friends they used to think we were "perfect." Perfectly clean home, perfectly dressed and behaved children, perfect perfect perfect.

Behind closed doors it was something else entirely.

hm, take your point stitchintime. When you are dealing with a very difficult family who are unable to communicate straightforwardly, you become hypersensitive and even oversensitive when dealing with them.

As you say, it's no way to live and if you're becoming hyper sensitive it's a good reason to step back all on its own. But that sometimes you can see things in a message that weren't meant.

It's still a bizarrely legalese letter though!

I am just blown away by fil's letters. What interests me though is that he would never pick up the phone. Never. It also really surprises me that he has offered to meet. I find that normally if the 'shit hits the fan' so to speak, fil will vanish. I think perhaps he is a bit of a coward. He is the type to walk off if he doesnt like what he is hearing. Dh can be like that too actually, if you are talking to him about emotive stuff he doesnt want to hear he will just walk off.
I can hear the disinheritance threat loud and clear. And without doubt every word is carefully thought out. He is the strangest man I have ever met. Easily flustered. Hates surprises. Likes you to come by appointment only. Even his own son. He will offer his help but only if you do EXACTLY what he asks. He speaks like his word is final and woe betide anyone who questions him. Dh just feels better not seeing them as all contact is stressful and strained. I wish it wasn't the case. It is such a stressful situation.

Stitch - unfortunately i also recognise some of the hypersensitivity you describe when people grow up with this sort of dysfunctional communication. I know myself that there have been instances when i have found my self obsessively churning over someone's use of a specific word, or tiny nuance that may or may not have been deliberate by the other person. Even now, i still find myself getting hung up on small details sometimes and struggle to take people at face value. And i agree it is no way to live, and before NC this was much worse, and i was indeed paranoid and not necessarily accurate on some of my interpretations. Life was not worthwhile for me, whilst having continued contact with someone that made me feel so defensive and vulnerable in my every thought.

Shoos - i feel for you and your DH. It sounds as though your husband has taken all he can bear from these people. And i hope with your continued support he can work through this. I am two years on from my initial NC with my parents, and in that time with my DHs help, i have come to realise that there is a bright happy world free from their abuse. The first couple of months or so were extremely painful and i agree with PP that i definately went through a grieving process. However, in time i realised i was grieving for what might have been/ the parents i never had? Give your husband the time and space he needs to work through this, and continue supporting him the way you are.

well if fil plans to disinherit his son you can hardly blame him ?
I don't have anyone in my will who does not want to be in my company