I think my dh is useless. Are we doomed?

[Klik]

I'm tired. Dd2 doesn't sleep for more than 3 hour stretches and is often up for 1.5hrs in the night. I'm breast feeding so having made a total rod for my back I feed her back to sleep.

Yesterday both DDs were grumpy/clingy/whiny/generally hard-going and I also came down with a cold.

Dh is primarily a "lovely bloke". Gentle, sweet, nice, not laddish or blokey IYSWIM but I think I just think he's useless.

Days out, holidays, finances, house admin, childcare, occasions, dinners are left for me to sort out. He does help around the house in terms of housework and DIY but the non-tangible stuff seems to completely pass him by.

I've told him (cried, screamed, asked, chatted) that I need more from him.

Since Sunday a series of really small things have happened and I just feel disappointed and let down by him. On top of that the long-term tiredness is really getting to me, and I feel shit with this cold. He doesn't seem to register just how much I'm struggling at the moment despite me telling him. He'll give me a kiss on the cheek and say something meek like "these are hard times, we'll get through them" and I want to scream "HOW? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO ENSURE THAT?" at him. What I want him to do is say he's sorted dinner, or done the food shop, or whatever.

If I ask him for an extra hour in bed at the weekend, he'll take the DDs downstairs and think he's a fucking hero for giving them breakfast yet and plonking them in front of the tv while he sits with them on his phone and then there will be a huge great mess to clear up when I get up and everything will be a rush because we're simply an hour behind because I had the audacity to need more sleep.

I don't know why I'm posting really. I'm just really down about him and this useless thing is clouding everything he does so he kind of can't do right for doing wrong. Which I know isn't fair.

But the bit doesn't feel fair that I feel like I'm really struggling on a day to say basis and all he can do is give me a sympathetic look. I know he's not responsible for happiness but just once I want him to take control and attempt to come up with a plan of some kind to change/help.

When he poked his head in this morning to say bye and "have a nice day" I burst into tears and shouted at him "I am laying here wondering how I'm going to cope with all I've got to do today feeling this shit and tired and I seriously don't think it even registers with you, you just toddle off to work". He half-heartedly offered to stay home (which he knows is totally impractical as he's self-employed and would lose money) I asked what he would do "I dunno. Take the kids out or something". And I again I wanted to scream at him that isn't going to get done all the things I needed to be done today and instead told him "to just go to work because having you hear would be an extra fucking burden rather than a help". Not my finest moment.

I'm just SO cross with him for not recognizing how much I'm struggling at the moment. And for not doing anything about it.

He pussies around with his work too. For years we've been talking about him "really going for it" but nothing changes or happens despite how much I try to help/encourage/leave alone. I've also said to him if he doesn't want to "really go for it" then that's cool, just tell me so I'm not encouraging something he has no intention to do.

He zaps my emotions yet doesn't support mine. It's like having another more needy child rather than a supportive partner. I've said this many many times before but nothing ever changes.

I'm at a loss as to what I can do. I'm too tired, cross and resentful to have the energy to have the same old shit conversation again.

I want our marriage to work but he seems to think just turning up is enough rather than actively contributing.

Dh was like yours and I felt like you... If hr texted me or made a comment re kids been hard I always responded with
Welcome to my world...... It did pull him up a bit

Well done OP. You've presented him with the solution. Now don't discuss food with him at all unless it's to stay 'thankyou darling, this tastes nice' while you are eating

Well I don't expect him to respond to my every emotional need but he had completely bypassed the fact that I was feeling like shit, had a lot to do that day and that I'd had a horrible day with the dc the day before. Completely bypassed it. I don't think that was asking too to have that vaguely acknowledged really.

I thought long and hard about how specific to be when asking him about the food. Knowing him as I do, and as I mentioned earlier. He thinks about A, then thinks about B, but crucially often misses how to get from A to B. He hasn't had to as I've always done it. So I figured I needed to give him a helping hand and that it would be too vague and quite frankly unfair to just say "sort the food". We talked about this and he said he appreciated the full explanation of what needed to be done. I now intend to just let him get on with it and do nothing but be grateful that he's doing it. I too feel relieved that it's one less thing I need to do.

Now - I'm also of the view that this is still a form of spoon-feeding and still gives him a certain degree of being able to opt-out of the responsibility but it's a start. And we need to start somewhere as things couldn't continue as they were.

I think taking this approach will empower him and boost him. And I hope will naturally lead to him just thinking more about stuff that has to be done because he'll be more used to doing it.

I think this is a Mars vs Venus thing tbh. I told him I was pissed off when he'd texted me with dd2 updates that night I went out. He reminded me that I'd left saying "let me know how it goes". I said that I'd said it in a figure of speech kind of way and that it'd just felt like he was throwing it all back to me to sort even though I was at the restaurant. He thought he was just doing as I'd asked.

So I need to be more specific and literal. Less "Jedi mind trick" as he put it . He knows he needs to 'participate' more, but needs a bit of showing how to do that (his words, and I believe this is because he doesn't know, rather than because he can't be arsed to figure it out himself).

Communication and respect I guess.

Hi op, you sound as though you are getting there with regards to being explicit when asking your dh to help.

A couple of other things might be worth considering, have you though about a cleaner? To help once a week. Maybe also look for a friendly teen that needs a bit of pocket money to help you have some relax time with regards to your dc. Someone who could take your dc out to the park or to play at home for a couple of hours a week. It may also help both you and dh to take it in turns at the weekends to have a lie in, say sat is your turn until 11am then sun is his. The one who is getting up to take charge of house and dc can get lunch sorted, take dc out and bring breakfast in bed for the other one. The person in bed can chill out or have a nice long bath, etc. during the week you and dh may find that taking the dc bed time routine in turns may help, so bath, book, bed (obviously you will be bf your youngest, but you could do that whilst relaxing knowing dh is getting things sorted.

There are practical ideas that can help, you and dh just need to find them.

*Klik" I completely get where you're coming from and am really pleased for you that he has responded so well. I might try the same sort of thing!

Word of warning though.....he won't do the food "right." He'll get the snacks wrong, or forget something, or the meals won't be quite what you would have done. Try not to let it show....he's going to be so pleased with himself for having achieved it. I say this from bitter experience.....I know that I'd find it very hard not to tut or sigh. Own worse enemy....

Ahh thank you all.

We actually have a cleaner already so the bigger household stuff isn't an issue. It's more the day to day little things, which although petty, build up over time in to one constant eye roll!

He's said he'd like to run the food list past me! I won't ask for it and I'll keep my comments as short as poss (honest!) if they are even needed. He's got a pretty good grip on the foods we all eat etc so it's not so much the content, more the process if that makes sense. I want him to realize that it isn't really a case of rocking up and having it all there, and that there is a certain amount of conscious effort that will need to go into having decent food to meet four different requirements, enough to stop the DDs from getting grouchy etc etc. I suppose I'm kind of coaching him!!

I genuinely think you'll find that things work out fine OP. It sounds like you managed to communicate well and with respect and that is crucial. Initially you will have to "coach" him but ultimately he'll think about things differently and you won't need to.

Good result - far better than yesterday's "leaving him".

Perfect sense Klik. And you are coaching him in how to run the logistics of the family which is great.

I try to remember that, when I was a teenager and started to drive, I took over responsibility for the family shopping. My Mum had a horrendous bad back which meant she literally couldn't push a trolley so I went from helping her with it to doing it. That wasn't by virtue of my gender, it was by virtue of the fact that I was the eldest and therefore, the first available to practically help. My DH never had to do that - he never learned the basics. My mother is a very instinctive cook so when I was asked to peel the potatoes and said "how many?" her response was "enough." So I learned how many, and then taught my sister and my brother when they got the same response. DH never learned that.

My mother believed that it was irresponsible to send children out into the world without home skills, and I believe the same thing. Sadly, I think we're married to a generation of men, many of whom didn't learn the same life skills and as a result, they don't know what they don't know and we can't expect them to pick it up by osmosis.

Rant over.

I think the technique of thinking aloud is quite useful, as long as you do it well in advance. So you are puzzling things out together, rather than internalising it all.

Scene: Klik house, supper time about three days before departure

'Hmm, so we've got that weekend to Glossop coming up. We are setting off at 5pm on the Friday, so we will probably need to have a packed supper for all of us in the car. We can take some food from here, but will need to stop off at a supermarket on the Saturday morning. DH, do you think that sounds like what we need to do?'

DH: 'Ah, yes, that all sounds good'

Klik: 'Well if I pack up some groceries from the cupboard during the day, can you make the packed supper on that Friday afternoon when you come home from work?'

DH: 'Yes, will do. What kinds of things would we need?'

Klik: 'Sandwiches will be easy to eat in the car, you decide the fillings and get some bits to go with them on Thursday if needed'.

DH: 'OK'

Hopefully, if you do it a few times then he begins to catch up and one day will surprise you by doing it without prompting.

Yes I agree it's frustrating that there is a need to coach him and it really shouldn't be this way but I guess it's not his fault per se; society has a lot to answer for. Though I think some of my own situation is simply personality rather than gender roles. That piece by Graham R White is really interesting.

I think about how he was brought up and MIL is so very proud of him, and I think feels she's done a 'good job' with him. She has - he's kind, generous, polite, hard-working, loyal, loves his family etc etc. But I think the role she's played in their family has had an impact. She has held everyone together practically, emotionally and financially. She's told me about aspects of her marriage to FIL that she hates yet she tolerates. She never complains, never criticizes, never moans. She just accepts that's the way things are and gets on with it. She's by no means a martyr. She doesn't expect much from life and doesn't think she deserves much either but isn't bitter or miserable. She just accepts. She doesn't necessarily hide her feelings but she doesn't bang on about them. There's no cats bum mouths or passive aggressive behaviours. She just cracks on. Perhaps it's denial but I don't think it's even that conscious. But the crucial thing I glean from this is that it gives FIL a green light to do what he wants by her being subservient. They are very much together but operate in their own little bubbles. And that's what I think DH has had engrained in him. That you can operate separately and no one will complain as long as the bills get paid.

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on which way you look at it, he didn't marry his mother!!

That's the plan newtwenty. To give him the time and space we both require for him to have a useful role in our relationship. Sounds ridiculously simple but harder to apply in practice.

Klik you've got it spot on :) and as someone else said unthread - if it's not done how you would have done it try not to show if it irks you ;)

One we couldn't agree on was hoovering/sweeping. It was a job he took on and he decided once a week was good enough, whereas I tried to do every day (we live on a farm so hay, wood shavings, straw does tend to find its way into the house). Instead he took over putting on a load of washing each day. He actually does this better than me! He pairs his socks as he takes them off (rolls over the ends leaving the legs and dirty feet exposed) so they go in as a pair and come out as a pair. It's genius! They're never as tidy as I would do them I pair them fully rolled in and flat but so what :)

Klik - I am jealous that you have a cleaner! That takes a huge burden off for a start.

We don't have a cleaner – partly because I work at home and it would stress me out having to deal with them and tidy up first. But also a cleaner just cleans dirty floors, bathroom etc which is nice, but it's not the stuff that really drags you down every day – the groundhog-day shopping and cooking, the clearing up, the tiresome emails from school and forms to fill in, the remembering sports kit, the presents to get bought and wrapped, the table-wiping, the insurance renewing, the booking someone to fix the leaky tap, it goes on and on and on. This is the stuff that can take up so much time and energy and where it makes such a huge difference if there are two of you mucking in equally.

And I think there's a specific situation where on top of doing the lion's share of it, you're dealing with a partner who's just blissfully ignorant and that just drives you over the edge. Doesn't know just how much of that stuff there is, how much time it takes, or how fucking sick of it you are, and doesn't realise that their very act of not bothering to know about it is pissing you off.

To change that you do have to spell it out and delegate and that in itself is annoying. But, I still think it is worth it to keep on with that campaign of giving him things to do, giving him a pile of admin and saying "this is your half of the bills to deal with", saying matter-of-factly "it's your turn to change those lightbulbs/do the car tax/sort out presents for 3 upcoming parties". I do this to DP all the time, I still get annoyed that it's so hard for him to grasp that I would like him to make it his business to just KNOW about stuff in the first place like I do, but I still think it's better than just sinking under the weight of it all.

Crazy that 24hrs in the life of a man thread can turn things around but I've really learnt a lot from these posts - it's been very thought-provoking.

I so thought I was handling things right by asking dh his thoughts as a way of bringing him in to a task but now can see that it was totally wrong, unfair and ineffective.

Still a long way to go but it feels better already.

I'm awful at managing my time and procrastinate too much so when we'd lived in our new house for 7 weeks and I realized I'd never hoovered upstairs I called in the cleaner. Best £20 we spend all week.

aurochs I had a break through a couple of months ago with regard to dd1's stories. Dh was saying he was bored of them same old ones (he reads to her every night) and I just kind of didn't pay it much attention. Then he kept on saying it and I realized he wanted me to get her some new books. I don't even think he realized he was, by virtue of his comments, asking me to do it - just that usually he'd say something like that and I'd sort it.

Instead I reminded him that Amazon Prime works on his account too so to go ahead. He's now an Amazon fiend

If you think you are and at procrastination - we still have about a dozen boxes we haven't emptied and we moved over a year ago! We obviously don't need the stuff or have replaced it if we did so I could just eBay it all. If I could find the time or enthusiasm...

Also aurochs we find getting the house tidy enough for the cleaners means it's 'reset' once a week so it never gets all too much. And I know my floors will definitely get mopped at least once a week. I can't guarantee I'll do it otherwise!!!

I have got a couple of friends with partners like this where a shake-up was needed after kids, and have seen how things really can change with a loving (if dappy) partner who is committed to a fair and happy relationship even if they aren't delivering.

I can sort of relate to your husband in that I grew up in a massively practical family and my DH is a hands on superstar, and whereas I am very good at some domestic things (presents, housework, cooking, DIY) there are other things (sorting bills, driving and cars, holidays, managing building work which we've had to do lots of) that I have have always been able to tune out of and in some cases don't even care about - I remember DH asking what I thought about what car we should get and my only thought was that I wanted a sober colour.

This hasn't caused me problems (I do definitely do 50% at home) but if things got unbalanced and DH got annoyed with me about some of the areas I don't engage in, I would much favour a hands on breakdown of what was needed and when. This would allow me to learn and engage better in the future.

Ok last post from me for a while as I need to get on with stuff but.... This thread has taught me I need to delegate more. In every area of my life. I've just called Dd1's nursery to see if she can do a few more hours. Previously I was concerned I would miss her, and that I wanted to make the most of mat leave by having her around. In reality I'm too tired to be engaged fun mummy so it's probably better for her to do more hours and I actually get some time to do more other stuff. Quality over quantity will be my new motto and will hopefully help me through the dread of returning to work full time too.

I took on too much at work as well so I shall look forward to delegating when I get back.

I need to become secure enough in my own self/status/role/ability/identity to realize that Doing Everything won't lead to happiness and that letting go a bit just might.

In the words of Elsa.... Let It Go, Let It Goooooooooooo!

Such a lovely positive post! I was quite worried for you yesterday that you were going to explode and pack it all in. Today - I feel you will get there. As a team!

Kilk I was chatting to a wise woman recently who's very senior in her profession and she said she'd realised that saying she couldn't take on something at work once in a while didn't just relieve her of having too much on her plate – it actually increased her status at work. Because people saw her as sometimes being too busy (and therefore important) to just be the dogsbody they could dump everything on.

Well done Klik - you cant do everything - thats the way madness lies. It took me a while to realise it as well. My DD started an extra half day at nursery this year and i am a much better mother for it, she adores nursery and i really appreciate our time together. It gives me more time with my 13mo so i feel less terrible about him not as much undivided mummy time.

I also got a cleaner and started using the creche at the gym (actually switched gyms to find one with a good creche). My mission this year is to make hubby responsible for his own families birthdays, they ignore mine every year so i dont feel very inclined to remember theirs.

Also if you are bad a procrastinating perhaps you should write yourself a to do list. I suffer as well and i have to have a strict routine or there just isnt enough time. Good luck

Not having!!

I had the same experience on second mat leave klik, we also did the same when it became clear dd1 was just getting very bored

The food list is, um, interesting. Bearing in mind I'm on a diet. It includes an m&s meal for us (no mention of what the DDs will have), curry, fry up, pancakes, fish and chips (for the baby too) as well as a full on big cook up meal. I asked if he was going to be cooking that and he said "ummm I can do" (he thought I was going to obviously). It also includes toasted sandwiches for our travel days (he said about taking the sandwich toaster but hasn't figured out it won't work in the car...............). No mention of snacks to top the DDs up in between these nutritious meals.....

Really trying to bite my tongue. Help me - how do I tackle this to somewhat improve our food intake over the next few days?