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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I think my dh is useless. Are we doomed?

219 replies

Klik · 29/04/2015 08:25

I'm tired. Dd2 doesn't sleep for more than 3 hour stretches and is often up for 1.5hrs in the night. I'm breast feeding so having made a total rod for my back I feed her back to sleep.

Yesterday both DDs were grumpy/clingy/whiny/generally hard-going and I also came down with a cold.

Dh is primarily a "lovely bloke". Gentle, sweet, nice, not laddish or blokey IYSWIM but I think I just think he's useless.

Days out, holidays, finances, house admin, childcare, occasions, dinners are left for me to sort out. He does help around the house in terms of housework and DIY but the non-tangible stuff seems to completely pass him by.

I've told him (cried, screamed, asked, chatted) that I need more from him.

Since Sunday a series of really small things have happened and I just feel disappointed and let down by him. On top of that the long-term tiredness is really getting to me, and I feel shit with this cold. He doesn't seem to register just how much I'm struggling at the moment despite me telling him. He'll give me a kiss on the cheek and say something meek like "these are hard times, we'll get through them" and I want to scream "HOW? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO ENSURE THAT?" at him. What I want him to do is say he's sorted dinner, or done the food shop, or whatever.

If I ask him for an extra hour in bed at the weekend, he'll take the DDs downstairs and think he's a fucking hero for giving them breakfast yet and plonking them in front of the tv while he sits with them on his phone and then there will be a huge great mess to clear up when I get up and everything will be a rush because we're simply an hour behind because I had the audacity to need more sleep.

I don't know why I'm posting really. I'm just really down about him and this useless thing is clouding everything he does so he kind of can't do right for doing wrong. Which I know isn't fair.

But the bit doesn't feel fair that I feel like I'm really struggling on a day to say basis and all he can do is give me a sympathetic look. I know he's not responsible for happiness but just once I want him to take control and attempt to come up with a plan of some kind to change/help.

When he poked his head in this morning to say bye and "have a nice day" I burst into tears and shouted at him "I am laying here wondering how I'm going to cope with all I've got to do today feeling this shit and tired and I seriously don't think it even registers with you, you just toddle off to work". He half-heartedly offered to stay home (which he knows is totally impractical as he's self-employed and would lose money) I asked what he would do "I dunno. Take the kids out or something". And I again I wanted to scream at him that isn't going to get done all the things I needed to be done today and instead told him "to just go to work because having you hear would be an extra fucking burden rather than a help". Not my finest moment.

I'm just SO cross with him for not recognizing how much I'm struggling at the moment. And for not doing anything about it.

He pussies around with his work too. For years we've been talking about him "really going for it" but nothing changes or happens despite how much I try to help/encourage/leave alone. I've also said to him if he doesn't want to "really go for it" then that's cool, just tell me so I'm not encouraging something he has no intention to do.

He zaps my emotions yet doesn't support mine. It's like having another more needy child rather than a supportive partner. I've said this many many times before but nothing ever changes.

I'm at a loss as to what I can do. I'm too tired, cross and resentful to have the energy to have the same old shit conversation again.

I want our marriage to work but he seems to think just turning up is enough rather than actively contributing.

OP posts:
steppemum · 29/04/2015 12:43

another thing that helped me was to see what he did do for the household.

eg in our case dh does all the finances, and is great at DIY.
I am useless at both and that helped me to get respect back, seeing he has his own strengths

MargotLovedTom · 29/04/2015 12:48

Well it was me who used fish fingers as an example of the sort of thing I would niggle on about, when in the greater scheme of things it didn't matter.

MargotLovedTom · 29/04/2015 12:53

Possibly the difference is as well that my DH has a really stressful job working long hours so I never viewed it as him "toddling off to work". I was crushed at home struggling with three dc under 4 and he was crushed at work, so it was a shit time for both of us.

QueenofallIsee · 29/04/2015 13:00

Sorry OP but I have to take a bit of issue with you applying YOUR emotional filter to your husbands responses to situations. You simply cannot put appropriate words/reactions to life in your list. Basically you are saying 'Notice what I do and tell me precisely what I want to hear or I will know you don't care or want to help' Stick with what you need practically so you might say 'Husband, I am struggling with a lack of sleep and need to get more rest. I need you to help me with this' but 'Notice wife is tired and respond like this' is unfair. he will never get that as you are applying only your emotional response not his.

Klik · 29/04/2015 13:02

Well I'm the higher earner too so I just feel like a shoulder a lot I guess.

Dh could have pushed his business forward so that he's the higher earner and he hadn't. He's played it all very safe and to be honest I'm not sure he's driven enough to take things to the next level. He's ever so talented but lacking in confidence which frustrates me, though I obviously try not to show it. So I suppose there is some resentment there too in that he could change his work situation so that theres less pressure on me but he won't/can't.

And that's representative of this whole thing I suppose.

OP posts:
Klik · 29/04/2015 13:04

Point taken queen - I wasn't going to literally copy what I'd posted here.

Perhaps my communication style needs tweaking

OP posts:
Applecross · 29/04/2015 13:17

sometimes all these resentments go round and round - just take it one step at a time - slay the sleep dragon first, and work on the other things down the line (i.e. DH's business). over-thinking is a form of distorted thinking that we're all prone to when tired. I've spent too long thinking about my DH and not taking any action and it's pointless.

MonstrousRatbag · 29/04/2015 13:20

He's ever so talented but lacking in confidence which frustrates me, though I obviously try not to show it

He probably sense it. And if he is lacking in confidence, that will be feeding into his passivity about the domestic situation. All the more reason for a frank, but kind, what he needs/what I need conversation.

justonemoretime2p · 29/04/2015 13:21

I think it's really unfair to be angry that he doesn't say what you want him to say, he isn't a mind reader.
I think in some respects you are expecting too much in that regard but you do need his help and he does need to do more.

discophile · 29/04/2015 13:21

I disagree queen. I don't think that is what klik is doing at all. Turn it round another way, if we saw a friend tired, crying, cross, run-down, not coping well... what would we do? We'd give them a big hug, we'd ask them how we can help, we would organise a spa day for them, we'd call to check they're OK, we'd keep on until we could see that our friends was managing things better. Wouldn't we all do that for a friend? Why does klik's husband not do that for her? Some of you don't get it.

cailindana · 29/04/2015 13:35

I had the same situation with DH. I solved it by saying I had enough and was leaving. I said my life would be easier without him as he'd have the kids at the weekend and I'd finally get a break. His life, I pointed out, would be far harder without me. He'd have to clean his own mess and change his own bedclothes and cook his own food, plus he'd actually have to look after his children on his own. He'd be fucked. That got the point across pretty well. It took a bit of time but his attitude completely changed. I had to actually teach him how to clean a bathroom and lay out everything that running a house takes. He now does more than me in practical terms and shares the thinking and organisation. He's read up on feminism and feels ashamed of his past thinking and behaviour.

Zillie77 · 29/04/2015 14:22

Klik- I like your solutions but I think you may be setting your husband up for failure with some of the things on the list where you ask him to be more creative re coming up with ways to support you or more empathic re your feelings than he can be? I might consider providing him with concrete suggestions instead, like "cuddle me whenever I ask", or, "if I look down, ask me what might help me feel better?" I find that my husband, for example responds really well to direct/concrete requests but not as well to vague ones.

For example, asking him to help clean up the kitchen is no good. I instead get better results when I ask him to clear the counters, load the dishwasher, and sweep. We have found a way to communicate around this that doesn't make me his mom and works for us. It only took 18 years of marriage to learn this!!

blueberrypie0112 · 29/04/2015 14:48

Doesn't it matter if she is stay at home mom? Being with children 24/7 with little to no break is exhausting. Mentally, especially. Not good for the child either if she is with her mother all the time because no one else make the effort to spend time with them and care for them. People act if they don't deserve breaks and some peace of mind just because they don't bring money home.

proceeding · 29/04/2015 14:48

cailindana I've been doing the same without declaring I'm leaving. As well as reminding him occasionally of how little thinking he actually does. He's trying to renew a direct debit today on our joint account that he set up in the first place. I know he's busy but he just sent it to me saying "We better do this today to get the good rate." (Cost increases on May 1). I said, you did it to begin with and I don't have the details. Then started the barrage of questions by email: Do you need to sign the mandate too since it's on the joint account? Do we have a DD for it already? Do we have any other DDs on the joint account?

Having given one or two word answers to all of these questions I rang him and said "You do realise that all these questions serve to do is to reiterate how I'm the Operations Director of our family, don't you?" I think he was hoping that I would say "Oh for God's sake, I'll do it." He just said "yes, they do, see you later."

He's getting there. I woh four days a week and have a busy day with the DDs on the 5th - occasionally I get the "but I work full-time" bollocks. That never lasts long as an argument.

Heels99 · 29/04/2015 14:54

Why do women marry these people? My husband is completely capable and we work as a team.
Note to young women, choose your partner wisely

Tanito279 · 29/04/2015 15:03

Right here with you. Actually my husband moved out a month ago. He's now sleeping on a mattress in a friends room with no curtains because I'm not there to sort out a bed frame or the drill for the curtain pole. I tried list writing but he would ignore things like food shopping and then say "but I cleaned the sink". That's great except when there's no food. It's much easier now he's gone because there is no teenager to mother/ nag (he's 33).
Sorry, no advice here really except to suggest that you consider what things would be like without him. Xx

yougotafriend · 29/04/2015 15:04

Just read this - isn't this what we all want (and thought we were getting)?

A Conscious Man is at His Most Magnificent When Life is at its Most Challenging~~

What a woman's intuition tells her is possible (and virtually all women look for) is a man with courage and conviction that becomes stronger under pressure. She knows this is the kind of man who can be counted on to do what's necessary when it counts, when life's challenges become especially tough.

What's the point in investing in a relationship with someone who becomes more reluctant, more reserved and more withdrawn, angry or afraid as the level of need increases? Too many women have found the self on the receiving end of excuses and avoidance when life applies pressure to a man, discovering a sudden need or demand to pick up his slack.

It's in a woman's feminine nature to be supportive, understanding, gracious and accommodating, but a deeper indignation eventually results towards the man who hesitates, tantrums, breaks down under pressure or runs away.

This is not an attack on men, but an explanation of why so many men lack the will to do whatever it takes to succeed in life and in love.

We no longer have predators attempting to gain entrance to our dwellings, we sleep soundly at night without fearing murders, rapists or thieves. Men no longer live in fear of conscription to the army or even the demand to be the sole provider for a family that will be destitute without their contribution.

While men don't crave pressure, they require it in order to grow and perform at their best. Today, instead of actual pressure men gravitate to the illusion of it in video games, sporting events and online arguments. Lives are instantly regenerated in their games, sports teams will live to play another day and the online rants or trolling are left with a click of the mouse.

Instead of pressure, men in relationships find themselves 'supported & understood' by women who hear their excuses about life being hard, accept their explanations about circumstances being unfair, and tolerate their 'challenges' finding the kind of employment that doesn't damage their ego.

At first, she accepts his excuses, believing he will prove his mettle when things 'really' count. She takes on more of the housework so he has the space he needs to 'recover' or 'get focused'. The demands of finances and parenting begin to build and he withdraws further as she picks up the slack. As weeks become months she asks what the plan is, and he yells that her question implied a lack of faith.

It all comes to a head with a catalysing event of infidelity, financial crisis or his inability to support her in a moment of need and she realizes she's taken on his responsibilities and that SHE is becoming the man she always hoped he would be.

Men don't require space to grow, they require pressure to step up and lead. And here's the hardest part of the truth for a man - he isn't counselled into courage or motivated into magnificence. A man either makes a choice to step through fear and act despite personal risk or he remains stuck in place with his excuses and desire for life to be easy and fair.

The promise with our birth was neither that life would be easy or fair, the only promise we were given was that we would have the choice to take it on as a victim or step up and become our own hero. No one else will save us, and if you're an Evolved woman you've already accepted the truth of that and taken full responsibility for your own life and circumstances.

Choose a higher standard, the one you truly desire and give your energy only to those who demonstrate the willingness to take on what's uncomfortable, grow to take on what's challenging and face their fear with courage of one who lives with purpose and conviction.

Let go of the sense that your love can change anyone, it can't. Love says, "I see the magnificence in your potential and my greatest desire is to see you claim it." Only the conviction of a man inspired by his internal purpose and compelled by the pressure of necessity will shift into the fully masculine conscious version of his potential that you believe he can be.

It requires pressure to form a man, not the soft space of belief, hope and understanding. Set your standard to 'Magnificent,' and wait for a man who has achieved it. In the meantime, focus on your own work and fulfilling the purpose and potential inside you. After all, the only person we can truly affect is ourselves.

~Graham R White

MorrisZapp · 29/04/2015 15:19

My friend is in a very similar situation to you OP, she married a passive man who needs to be herded like a sheep or he just wouldn't do anything.

I dunno, he was always like that really and people don't fundamentally change do they.

I think many women expect marriage and/or children to turn passive men into organised go-getters but the proof for this just isn't there.

It won't always be this bad, you'll be sleeping through soon enough and life will get a bit less crazy but in the meantime, he is what he is. The best you can realistically hope for is to get the practical help you need by giving explicit and detailed instructions.

Hadalifeonce · 29/04/2015 15:22

OP, I think you should write exactly what you listed on the 'to do' list.
Men don't think the same way women do, they want to offer solutions, not talk about problems. They need it spelled out to them.

It's a pain but it is the way their brains are wired.

Klik · 29/04/2015 15:37

Again. Thank you all.

He has definitely always been like this yes - but before children it didn't matter. I was strong and independent whereas quite frankly now I feel like shadow of my former self and on the brink of tears a lot of the time and find it really hard to accept or ask for help, or show any kind of weakness even though I think perhaps I'm crying out for some support. This is quite hard to admit and write out.

Reconciling what's going on internally with myself with what's going externally is tricky and this thread has been an eye-opener for me.

Micromanaging him feels like the only way forward, at least until those behaviours will hopefully lead to something more positive in the longer term. Because I don't think he actually knows how to change. Plus I guess I need to take some responsibility for letting things get to this point.

OP posts:
Aurochs · 29/04/2015 15:44

Well I didn't marry him but anyway... in the beginning, I was able to accept DP as lazy, messy and disorganised because it only affected him. I knew we were different but even when we moved in together it wasn't that hard for me to keep the place to my standards, and as it was me who wanted it tidy, I just did it. (Especially after living with scummy flatmates, it was easier actually.) He was also nice, funny, clever, kind etc etc - we had fun and I was happy. I DID expect him to do housework and we had arguments about that but I kind of assumed it would work out. Daft but there it is. I wasn't as much of a feminist then and I've always been a "coper" who just knuckles down and does stuff. I've played my part in creating this situation because I always did pick up the slack.

I think the trouble kicks in when you have kids and you get more and more exhausted – little imbalances and a lack of understanding start to matter a lot more and get exacerbated. If someone has a FT job and gets to just walk out of the house for most of the day, 5 days a week (and often weekend days too, judging by many threads on here) – and if they are a man, they don't even have to break off from that to give birth and breastfeed etc. – then they can not really get an idea of why being left in charge of the kids and home is so hard. The more kids you have, the bigger house you get, if you get a car, etc etc the more the stuff to be done multiplies and multiplies and if you're already carrying the can for the home and kids, it lands on you. You have to ACTIVELY shove it off and give it to him to do, but even that is taking on the responsibility for knowing what needs doing and delegating it.

proceeding · 29/04/2015 16:05

Heels I've never believed the "men can't multi task" bollocks, never mind how much MIL says "I know you don't agree with me but it's true!!" but some of them have never learned how to.

My DH is getting better, and is trying harder, but he like all of us reverts to learned behaviours (which in my case are to be overly controlling and passive aggressive) when tired and stressed. He had EVERYTHING done for him as a child and young adult. Also, and this is just who he is, has extremely poor abilities in relation to time management. There are actually a lot of signs that he is dyslexic, and he's done a few online tests that indicate he probably is, so it would appear that it is genuinely harder for him to organise himself. I am hyper organised, which actually doesn't help as there is a lot of "it's just quicker if I do it myself." which makes me resentful and undermines him.

I also think that if, as a woman, you've waited until you've established a career before having children, are slightly older etc (and OP it sounds like you fall into that category - forgive me if I've misread), the change to being primary feeder and baby wiper is so incredibly dislocating. OP, that does get better - and quickly - I can't emphasise enough how much the sleep thing is affecting you now. My DDs are now 19 months and nearly 3. Since Christmas I really feel like I'm getting my life back. But it's the first time in over three years - and it's radically different to what it was.

blessedenough · 29/04/2015 16:54

I night weaned my BF DD - that helped a lot - 3 nights of screaming and offering water - it was hard but we shared it. When i was at my most tired with DS hubby got up and did the 5am feed - i kicked him to get out of bed and do it - i then listened politely when he told me how tired he was the next day and bit my tongue ( i know i used to do it).

Friday night is his turn to cook, he has to tell me in advance what ingredients to buy or get them himself on the day - i am also on a diet so they have to fit in with my diet! All recipes must be run by me first!

Sunday morning is my lie in, saturday is his - until 9am. I still have to do everything when i get up and kids have usually had breakfast watched loads of tv but arent dressed or washed, dishwasher not done but its worth it.

Saturday morning is housework day - we do it together - yet more TV for DD - sigh.

I write lots of lists and stick them on the fridge.

I wish my hubby earned more so i didnt have to have my home based business but i am glad he doesnt work more hours - so thats the compromise i make.

He is an excellent father and mostly husband but i wont ever change him. He will never be very proactive, ambitious etc but i can live with that as the rest of our relationship is worth it. Things dont tend to change until i blow up about an issue but we do regularly discuss things - he does think i am over reacting on certain issues but its how i feel right or not.

That said i still buy my own birthday presents and organise everything!

I have recently started exercising and he is a very routined person so we came up with a strict plan. We both stick to that plan and he is starting to see how hard it is to fit everything in to that timescale - only started a week ago. I dont take my phone with me but then i trust that he will cope, somehow and he is getting better at it.

I need to have a wisdom tooth removed ( in hospital)and i am secretly looking forwards to him having the kids for a whole week while i recover in bed and having to do everything -that will show him!!

The thing that is different for us is that we talk. Also my kids are a bit older 13mo and 3 yrs them being that bit older has made such a difference. 6 months ago i was much more distressed by the situation.

I wish you all the best, i cant make my hubby see it from my point of view so i have learnt how to manage him, its getting easier. He will never anticipate my needs or act out of the blue but thats him.

We also put DD 3yrs (from aged 2) into nursery 1.5 days a week and granny has her half a day a week. That gives me time to do all my jobs whilst DS sleeps. Family support can really help - is that an option for you?

We had a plan to have date night once a month and i am in the process of finding a babysitter so we can have some US time - its hard to be affectionate and loving when you are knackered and spend all your time discussing what jobs need to be done. Again its only happening because i am driving it.

Hope things improve for you, you sound at the end of your teether - this is what works for us. I feel in a much better place now.

blessedenough · 29/04/2015 17:01

ps i was like you,hard working and had a great career. For a long time i felt like a non person - just a mum but i realise i am doing the most important job. I started to loose weight, i cut my hair and went blonde again (at great expense) and have started to exercise. I even started learning a foreign language - i have always wanted to do that. I have had a few nights out with the girls. All this has made me feel like me - albeit the new me not the me i was. For a long time i felt i couldnt use the family money for me as the kids needed it more (they have everything they need) but as hubby pointed out i am asmuch of this family as they are and just important.

I couldnt expect my hubby to be responsible for my happiness but i did expect him to facilitate some of this for me ie provide the childcare so i could go out.

Our new mantra is happy wife - happy life

Northernparent68 · 29/04/2015 17:08

Is it fair to suddenly change the goal posts,?

you married a passive man for a reason, you can't expect to become alpha because you ve change your mind as to what you want from him.