I think my dh is useless. Are we doomed?

[Klik]

I'm tired. Dd2 doesn't sleep for more than 3 hour stretches and is often up for 1.5hrs in the night. I'm breast feeding so having made a total rod for my back I feed her back to sleep.

Yesterday both DDs were grumpy/clingy/whiny/generally hard-going and I also came down with a cold.

Dh is primarily a "lovely bloke". Gentle, sweet, nice, not laddish or blokey IYSWIM but I think I just think he's useless.

Days out, holidays, finances, house admin, childcare, occasions, dinners are left for me to sort out. He does help around the house in terms of housework and DIY but the non-tangible stuff seems to completely pass him by.

I've told him (cried, screamed, asked, chatted) that I need more from him.

Since Sunday a series of really small things have happened and I just feel disappointed and let down by him. On top of that the long-term tiredness is really getting to me, and I feel shit with this cold. He doesn't seem to register just how much I'm struggling at the moment despite me telling him. He'll give me a kiss on the cheek and say something meek like "these are hard times, we'll get through them" and I want to scream "HOW? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO ENSURE THAT?" at him. What I want him to do is say he's sorted dinner, or done the food shop, or whatever.

If I ask him for an extra hour in bed at the weekend, he'll take the DDs downstairs and think he's a fucking hero for giving them breakfast yet and plonking them in front of the tv while he sits with them on his phone and then there will be a huge great mess to clear up when I get up and everything will be a rush because we're simply an hour behind because I had the audacity to need more sleep.

I don't know why I'm posting really. I'm just really down about him and this useless thing is clouding everything he does so he kind of can't do right for doing wrong. Which I know isn't fair.

But the bit doesn't feel fair that I feel like I'm really struggling on a day to say basis and all he can do is give me a sympathetic look. I know he's not responsible for happiness but just once I want him to take control and attempt to come up with a plan of some kind to change/help.

When he poked his head in this morning to say bye and "have a nice day" I burst into tears and shouted at him "I am laying here wondering how I'm going to cope with all I've got to do today feeling this shit and tired and I seriously don't think it even registers with you, you just toddle off to work". He half-heartedly offered to stay home (which he knows is totally impractical as he's self-employed and would lose money) I asked what he would do "I dunno. Take the kids out or something". And I again I wanted to scream at him that isn't going to get done all the things I needed to be done today and instead told him "to just go to work because having you hear would be an extra fucking burden rather than a help". Not my finest moment.

I'm just SO cross with him for not recognizing how much I'm struggling at the moment. And for not doing anything about it.

He pussies around with his work too. For years we've been talking about him "really going for it" but nothing changes or happens despite how much I try to help/encourage/leave alone. I've also said to him if he doesn't want to "really go for it" then that's cool, just tell me so I'm not encouraging something he has no intention to do.

He zaps my emotions yet doesn't support mine. It's like having another more needy child rather than a supportive partner. I've said this many many times before but nothing ever changes.

I'm at a loss as to what I can do. I'm too tired, cross and resentful to have the energy to have the same old shit conversation again.

I want our marriage to work but he seems to think just turning up is enough rather than actively contributing.

I simply said about weaning the dd because the OP is knackered and it might give her more chance of a good night's kip once it was sorted. Or it could mean the H has to get up and settle the child if BF is not an option.

Yes he is totally passive rather than proactive to most things. He's not lazy though, I guess there is a distinction between passive and lazy.

So much about relationships and life is non verbal isn't it? It's not that I expect him to clean the bathroom or whatever, it's more that it's got to be done, does it matter who does it.

We've fallen into this trap with practical things and like a pp I'm a bit more of a control freak so happy to take the lead in some things. But surely part of the the role of a husband is to support his wife when she's feeling down? To try to help find a way forward for his family that encourages happiness for everyone?

No he's not a mind reader but surely a mature, caring response when I say "I'm really struggling, I'm so tired" would be "right, ok, let's fix this" rather than a fricking pat on the back.

That's the the thing - he doesn't see any of this as his problem too so therefore doesn't think he needs to do anything.

If he'd said this morning "let me take dd1 to nursery, dd2 to her group and go and do the food shop, clean the car ready for our road trip, and start packing whilst you get some rest" then I would've bitten his arm off to do so.

He didn't think to offer to do that because he didn't know that's what I've got to do today, none of that would cross his mind and he'd see it as a day off to lark about with the girls. It wouldn't cross his mind to ask what it was that was overwhelming me.

Do you have access to any family help? Assuming not - so can you sit him down and say we're paying for nursery 1 or 2 days per week for one or both dc so that I can rest and we have to cut back on x so we can afford this? If that's a no, can you go back to work? - dd1 slept better when getting more tired at nursery. I agree I'd also be tempted to night-wean at that age - you've done a good stint of bf, set your dd2 up well. BF is tiring even if you're getting rest. I'd be really careful about kicking out a generally nice bloke that you have two dc with. I hear your valid frustrations but I agree, doing on your own isn't the solution unless you feel he's adding to the burden and always will. I haven't had an unbroken night in 6.5 months with dd2 either although she's not as terrible a sleeper as yours...I've gotten so cross with my DH he's gotten totally alienated from me - don't recommend that.

I think that you dh is either incompetent and needs to learn how to do stuff, or unwilling to learn and it isn't possible from this side of the computer to tell which one.

My dh is fab, but loads and loads of this stuff has come up at different points.
I solved some of it by handing kids over and turning phone off and not being there - day out shopping with my mum, exercise etc. He found his way of doing stuff, not always same as mine. He had to learn to do naps etc, and once I was not in the house the dcs let him (they come to me when I am home) I had to express milk to make this happen, but he had to get on with it. He needed to learn how to parent and this only happened once I removed myself from the scene.

I solved some of it by being very explicit about needs - when I have a lie in, I expect that 1. I won't be disturbed by kids coming in for morning cuddle, as soon as they come in get out of bed and take them away and 2. when I get up, all the stuff that should be done is done - dishwasher, kids dressed, etc
When dd2 went through a phase of waking in the night, I took turns, second wake up I kicked him and said it is your turn and turned over and refused to get out of bed. To be fair, once I woke him up he was fine with getting up, and after a while we even had nights when he heard dd before me. He works and I was SAHM so I was prepared to do more nights than him, but when it got too much, I needed him to take his turn.

I solved some of it by division of labour - dh cooks on saturday, he organises and puts it on shopping list. It must be stuff all will eat. We did have a couple of conversations early on when I pointed out that food has to be on table at 6, and he wasn't allowing enough time to cook.
There are certain jobs which are dhs, I don't interfere, they are his responsibility. We talked about which jobs we prefer, I hate hoovering he doesn't mind, he doesn't do dusting as dust allergy.

Some things we do together, eg we had a phase of sat morning cleaning, all hands on deck for an hour, got bathrooms done, and house tidy ish and hoovered.

The very worst thing was doing it all and feeling full of resentment. Be proactive, hand jobs over - I need you to do x, and do it every 2 days without me asking or nagging.

finally (sorry essay) give yoursleves a break, you have very small children and no sleep. It does get better, really it does.

I want him to make these suggestions. For him to say "I hate seeing you like this, let's try xyz".

I'm so cross that he doesn't.

I can ask him to, I can tell him that what I want, but it's kind of missing the point isn't it?

I wouldn't make any decisions while you're sleep-deprived. It's really hard to keep things in perspective - if I read you right, one of his crimes is putting a 9-month old in a sleepsuit instead of day clothes. This is definitely one to file under "no big deal".

Of course he's in the wrong, but if you rage at him for getting small things like this wrong, of course he's nervous about taking control of anything.

Decide to take some time for yourself, and if he moans about the baby crying or whatever, so what? Ignore him. Agree with him that he takes responsibility for a certain area (laundry or food shopping or whatever) and if he gets it wrong, so what? He'll learn by trial and error - it's only fair to give him that space.

I think what you do to get through the immediate short-term is a different matter from what you do about the longer term issue of your husband not engaging with your needs and feelings and possibly, DD's.

So short-term, presenting a list and saying 'I'm not coping at the moment, please take over these tasks' is ok, it need not be an acceptance that you will micro-manage him forever.

Exercise will make you feel better and I agree with whoever said to go to the gym once or twice a week and just turn the phone off. This is important: the parent who is not looking after the children alone all day can get quite blase about what it involves. Being left alone with the children without the usual carer on the end of a phone to help is an excellent way to learn how difficult it is.

However, just for now I would postpone going to do exercise in favour of going off to catch up on sleep (at your parents, or a friend's, athome, whatever works). I think more sleep for you is urgent.

Ask your husband what he wants, in terms of how family life is managed, as well as telling him what you want. I know it is awful to feel you aren't being heard, but you've got to a point with each other where nothing's changing and the (probably mutual) resentment is entrenched. It will be much easier to have a constructive dialogue about feelings and emotional support once a few practical things have been ironed out.

I think steppemum's post is really good. Proactive. If it gets stuff done then that's half the battle surely? Once the floor is clean I'd be much less resentful and ready for a cuddle. Sad but true!

I really appreciate the time you're all taking to reply, thank you.

I have no idea how to wean dd2 off the night feeds. DD1 just did it herself. She is a screamer and will go at it for hours. I think I'd need to check into a hotel and not be here. Actually that's rather appealing - a full nights sleep! It wouldn't be fair to do this in the week though when DH has work.....

I will look into millpond later.

The question of incompatibility worries me. We are opposite in so many ways and we used to say that that balances us out but now I just think it might tip us out of balance.

I'm agreeing with those advocating some short term emergency steps. Can you get some childcare organised? Can you get some help with housework? Can you get a half day for yourself to sleep and/or exercise and feel human again?

There were two occasions when our DC were young that a night in the PremierInn saved my sanity/relationship/life.

x posted with your last post.

I totally get the organiser thing, but in the end, in your position I would have said, this is what needs doing today, which ones can you do?

I decided in the end that if I didn't say these things are on the list for today, because the list existed in my head, then he would never know what he wasn't doing.

As time has gone on, much of this has become second nature to dh too and I rarely have to do it now.
occasionally eg in the run up to a holiday we will sit down together and make a joint list of what needs doing and so take joint responsibility for that list.

I really really wanted dh to KNOW what I needed. He didn't. I had to accept he wasn't a mind reader. He has however over time become pretty close!

Surely it is better to just keep writing him lists of chores to do then to just sit there simmering in resentment?

Yes it sucks he is like this but did he just magically change after your first child? surely you knew what he was like before you decided to have a second baby with him.

You have said a few occasions he has helped or tried to help you and you have sneered at his efforts. There are many husbands who being asked to help, would just yell at their wives or flat out refuse to do it. Your husband listens and does do what you say, yes he has to be told but...hey ho.

You're trying to put words in to his mouth. Is there a need for him to say "I hate seeing you like this" when you probably won't feel "this" as much when he's doing stuff? Does that make sense.

It sounds like you're feeling sorry for yourself, fair enough, but if you've always taken control then he's obviously come to see you as being the 'sorter-outer' if you like.

I agree with bibliomania. Of course he's in the wrong, but if you rage at him for getting small things like this [sleepsuit in the day] wrong, of course he's nervous about taking control of anything.

It wouldn't be fair to do this in the week though when DH has work.....

Why would that be unfair?

He would have one miserable evening and one bad night's sleep, right?

Would it be so very terrible for him to be tired all of the next day at work? One whole day. One whole night. Poor little diddums.

That's half your problem right there: your own attitude that his grumpiness is more important than yours. The book Wifework might help you with that one.

I didn't rage at him re the sleep suit and yes it is a really minor thing. But it was more of a bemused question. As in I thought there was a reason as to why he didn't just get her dressed.

But point taken and I did say in my original post I know he's in a tricky situation too.

I need to find a way of expressing my frustration so he understands where I'm coming from. Yet I know I can't make him understand.

My dm (slight narc) used to rant and rave at us as kids and use the line "try and imagine how it makes me feel" and I just used to nod along and say what she wanted to hear rather than really wanting to put myself in her shoes. I don't want to do the same to dh.

When did life get so complicated?!

*If he'd said this morning "let me take dd1 to nursery, dd2 to her group and go and do the food shop, clean the car ready for our road trip, and start packing whilst you get some rest" then I would've bitten his arm off to do so.

He didn't think to offer to do that because he didn't know that's what I've got to do today, none of that would cross his mind and he'd see it as a day off to lark about with the girls. It wouldn't cross his mind to ask what it was that was overwhelming me.*

They why not tell him? You're expecting him to be a mind reader - this is not fair.

Some men seem to leave home after having had their mothers do everything for them, with no life skills whatsoever. They just don't have a clue. And then some women seem to slip into mothering them and the man never needs to take care of himself. If things need doing tell him... When I first moved in with my partner I informed him that as I had cleaned the bathroom last week, this week it was his turn. He attempted to clean the bathroom but as he had never been expected to do this before (mum and exes always did it). He cleaned he inside of the bath, toilet and sink, mopped the floor but didn't change the bathmat and didn't think to clean any other the 'extras' like soap dish, toothbrush mug, mirror etc. so I explained to him that there were things missing and that he did also need to clean the outside of things too. It wasn't even something that entered his head - he had always had it done for him. He now cleans properly...

*I want him to make these suggestions. For him to say "I hate seeing you like this, let's try xyz".

I'm so cross that he doesn't.

I can ask him to, I can tell him that what I want, but it's kind of missing the point isn't it?*

Again - you are expecting him to be a mind reader. You cannot be cross with someone for not being able to read your mind.

As far as sleep goes - if your baby is 9 months old is there the possibility of expressing, even just one bottle, so he had do one of the night feeds? If he is made to feel how exhausting it is, he may have more sympathy.

When he complains about baby waking when you are out point out calmly that you have to deal with the same all night every night. Just explain to him that you have that to deal with whilst you should be sleeping. Or you could turn your phone off and give him no support - like he does to you each night... But that's a bit passive aggressive ;)

When did life get so complicated?!

that would be the 2 little bundles of joy!

I don't know how you feel about dd screaming/crying, but at 9 months I would start refusing milk at night. Offer her water in a bottle and cuddlles but no milk (mine had a feed at about 10-11 pm for ages and ages, but not after that)
I know it doesn't work with all kids, but I had 2 days of crying and then they slept through. Had to to it with both dds, as I was at the end of my tether. I continued to bf during the day, just refused night feeds. (they ate well in day, so I knew they weren't hungry)

Sometimes you have to be pragmatic, if this works to solve the tiredness then it is worth it.

Lack of sleep is definitely a key issue. I wouldn't be quite so needy if I was getting enough sleep.

I'm going to write that list down from my earlier post, add that to all the things that need to be done before our roadtrip at the weekend give it to dh to read whilst I go to bed.

He is a good egg but I just want to shake him sometimes.

I also have a list on my fridge 'Jobs for today'. I tick the jobs off as I do them - without this list my OH wouldn't have a clue just what I was doing what he was getting away with not doing. By having this list if he isn't pulling his weight I can point out just how much I have done in relation to what he has done. My approach is usually 'Is it fair that I am putting so much more time into the running of the house?'

When someone suggested doing this to me I was a bit shocked. I saw it that it was a way of the man keeping tabs on what the woman was doing. What it actually works as is a way of pointing out to the man exactly what he is not doing.

When you are tired, crabby and emotional it's hard to get across just what gets done each day. If you argue it tends to just be the big jobs that are mentioned, not the dozens of small things - that list mounts up with those 5 minutes jobs that my OH didn't even know got done.

It's pathetic little things like cleaning the edge of the door where he shuts the door with the wood instead of the handle with dirty fucking hands. The fact that it is every door in the house. The fact that when he does remember to wash his hands he does it in the tiny sink in the loo instead of the big metal one in the utility room. Dirty water ends up all being the soap dispenser and all down the outside of the sink. I then end up cleaning it. By adding it to my 'jobs list' the invisible job becomes visible. It takes one minute to do but its me cleaning up after his shit - when there little jobs mount up, so does the resentment...

I'm going to add the emotional stuff to the list too.

Thank you all so much this has really helped. I might pop back later with my list for you to scrutinise!

It gets complicated when DC come along!

I had to have a long hard look at myself after DH got really pissed off and said stuff along the lines of " I can't do anything right."

It was the result of a constant drip-drip of negative, mildly critical remarks I made, along the lines of:

"Those clothes don't go together at all, why have you put [dd] in that?"

"Why have you let them get all that stuff out when I've just tidied up?"

"Why did you give them fish fingers? They had fish fingers for tea yesterday."

"Why did you put those clothes in the tumble dryer, they'll shrink?"

I think I was a pain in the arse to be honest. The dc are older now and I'd like to think I'm more chilled out.

I'm not saying you're a pain in the arse OP. I think you're knackered, have got FT work looming and you definitely need more support.

Klik give him the list - I bet he doesn't even realise half of the stuff on it.

With an ex, he used to huff that I complained about the 10 minute jobs. I'd point out that when there are a dozen of those jobs taking 2 hours whilst the other person sits on their arse it's just not on. He's now someone else's problem ;)

I know I was a pain in the arse! that should be.

one thing that occurs to me, often men are told that when we are upset we need to tell them but we don't need them to try and fix it, we need them to listen. This comes from the man suggesting loads of solutions to a problem when all you want is to rant about eg bad day at work.

This is the opposite, and sometimes it might feel like a mixed message!

I had to have a long hard look at myself after DH got really pissed off and said stuff along the lines of " I can't do anything right."

I was the same and I have approach my current relationship differently. I hear everything you say (bar the kids part as we've not got there yet)

"Those clothes don't go together at all, why have you put [dd] in that?"

Can't really comment but if DD is happy with what she is wearing does it matter?

"Why have you let them get all that stuff out when I've just tidied up?"

If I'm about to tidy up I generally ask if he needs anything first so he doesn't drag the whole fucking lot back out again

"Why did you give them fish fingers? They had fish fingers for tea yesterday."

I'd kill for fish fingers two days on the run! Can't really comment as no kids here yet but does it matter?

"Why did you put those clothes in the tumble dryer, they'll shrink?"

I've had numerous clothes shrunk - he replaces them. Now clothes don't get shrunk ;)

i think I was a pain in the arse to be honest. I was a pain in the arse and I learned to let some of the little things slide - choose your battles wisely.

I asked my OH to tell me when I am being a pain in the arse - we have a safe word a bit like those into s&m so if I am going on a bit he will let me know that it is getting to him. And the same for me too. We have agreed that if we use the word we won't allow it to get to an argument - we say for Biggleswade before it gets that far.

God help me when I have kids though - you lot deserve a medal!