I think my dh is useless. Are we doomed?

[Klik]

I'm tired. Dd2 doesn't sleep for more than 3 hour stretches and is often up for 1.5hrs in the night. I'm breast feeding so having made a total rod for my back I feed her back to sleep.

Yesterday both DDs were grumpy/clingy/whiny/generally hard-going and I also came down with a cold.

Dh is primarily a "lovely bloke". Gentle, sweet, nice, not laddish or blokey IYSWIM but I think I just think he's useless.

Days out, holidays, finances, house admin, childcare, occasions, dinners are left for me to sort out. He does help around the house in terms of housework and DIY but the non-tangible stuff seems to completely pass him by.

I've told him (cried, screamed, asked, chatted) that I need more from him.

Since Sunday a series of really small things have happened and I just feel disappointed and let down by him. On top of that the long-term tiredness is really getting to me, and I feel shit with this cold. He doesn't seem to register just how much I'm struggling at the moment despite me telling him. He'll give me a kiss on the cheek and say something meek like "these are hard times, we'll get through them" and I want to scream "HOW? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO ENSURE THAT?" at him. What I want him to do is say he's sorted dinner, or done the food shop, or whatever.

If I ask him for an extra hour in bed at the weekend, he'll take the DDs downstairs and think he's a fucking hero for giving them breakfast yet and plonking them in front of the tv while he sits with them on his phone and then there will be a huge great mess to clear up when I get up and everything will be a rush because we're simply an hour behind because I had the audacity to need more sleep.

I don't know why I'm posting really. I'm just really down about him and this useless thing is clouding everything he does so he kind of can't do right for doing wrong. Which I know isn't fair.

But the bit doesn't feel fair that I feel like I'm really struggling on a day to say basis and all he can do is give me a sympathetic look. I know he's not responsible for happiness but just once I want him to take control and attempt to come up with a plan of some kind to change/help.

When he poked his head in this morning to say bye and "have a nice day" I burst into tears and shouted at him "I am laying here wondering how I'm going to cope with all I've got to do today feeling this shit and tired and I seriously don't think it even registers with you, you just toddle off to work". He half-heartedly offered to stay home (which he knows is totally impractical as he's self-employed and would lose money) I asked what he would do "I dunno. Take the kids out or something". And I again I wanted to scream at him that isn't going to get done all the things I needed to be done today and instead told him "to just go to work because having you hear would be an extra fucking burden rather than a help". Not my finest moment.

I'm just SO cross with him for not recognizing how much I'm struggling at the moment. And for not doing anything about it.

He pussies around with his work too. For years we've been talking about him "really going for it" but nothing changes or happens despite how much I try to help/encourage/leave alone. I've also said to him if he doesn't want to "really go for it" then that's cool, just tell me so I'm not encouraging something he has no intention to do.

He zaps my emotions yet doesn't support mine. It's like having another more needy child rather than a supportive partner. I've said this many many times before but nothing ever changes.

I'm at a loss as to what I can do. I'm too tired, cross and resentful to have the energy to have the same old shit conversation again.

I want our marriage to work but he seems to think just turning up is enough rather than actively contributing.

Graham R White is my new actual hero

OP I was you. I had a few mini breakdowns during those years when my two girls were small. My ex never stepped up, even when I was very direct about what I needed. Having an equal partner in life isn't a dealbreaker for everyone (hence some women are happy to leave lists) but it was for me.

Given the fact that he isn't there for you, and that you lack respect for him with the way he's 'played it safe' career wise, I would say your marriage is in a perilous state. I'm sorry, but it is.

At present I think you should book yourself into a hotel for the weekend, leave him with the kids, turn off your phone, and sleep, and after the weekend, discuss whether you can realistically carry on together. If he gets no sleep over the weekend he can chuck a sicky on Monday (assuming no important meetings or deadlines) and tell them his marriage is very poorly.

Incidentally, you can leave this marriage, it doesn't need to get any worse than it is now. Your mental health is about to fall off a cliff. If you parent separately, you will have less Wifework, more downtime, and lots more sleep.

I left my inept ex and my life is immeasurably better.

blessed thank you for sharing so much! I love that happy wife happy life motto. Dh will too I think as it'll remind him of us traveling in SE Asia many moons ago!

I'm sorry I haven't responded to more posts individually.

Where there's a will, there's a way. I know our marriage isn't doomed but there was a slight wobble this morning when I thought "fuck I don't want to be stuck in a marriage with someone I think is useless".

We haven't really talked this evening. Just getting the DDs to bed now so suspect we will later.

As an aside - dinner tonight was a classic example of him 'missing' stuff..... He put dd2 in the high chair, ready for spag bol so a pretty messy dinner, but we had no clean bibs. It simply did not cross his mind to roll her sleeves up or take her top off so he plonked some on her tray and got on with his own food. Was I wrong to say "can you take her top off do it doesn't get stained and ruined please?" (I was dealing with dd1 on the other side of the table otherwise would've just done it). Not saying anything would've annoyed me as it would've ruined a nice little top she's got and also I wanted to point out the obvious thing he'd missed.

That bit of missing logic/awareness is what drives me insane, is that me being a 'pain in the arse' as up thread or just normal?

I don't expect him to become alpha. I would like a bit of empathy and a more equal partnership and yes perhaps for him to step in (not even necessarily step up) when I'm at the end of my tether.

Also northern people and relationships evolve as life goes on. Of course I don't want the same from him now (aged 35 with 2 DDs) as I did when we met (aged 22 living at home).

I find that "you knew what you were getting into" line most unhelpful. Things change and you have to adapt accordingly surely?

I refuse to believe there is no middle ground between passive and alpha. Sometimes it just needs a bit of a poke in the arse.

One thing to consider, Klik, and that is do you think you would feel so overwhelmed and have such a heightened sense of your DP's inability to empathise with you and support you in meaningful ways if you weren't feeling quite so sleep deprived? Feeling dog tired is pretty detrimental to resilience at the best of times but I do think it might be worth talking to a health professional about whether there may be more clouding your reaction to the partner you've had all along than "just" sleep deprivation.

Was I wrong to say "can you take her top off do it doesn't get stained and ruined please?"

It's a perfectly reasonable request.

Ouryve research shows that PND and 'perception of lack of support from partner' are very, very, closely linked. There is no point, in my opinion, trying to separate the issues here, they are intertwined in this scenario.

In ref to the top- dont sweat the small stuff, i have this as well but now i shop at primark for their clothes, then i dont care if they get them filthy with food, grass stains etc. I tell hubby to take off nice stuff he wouldnt other wise.

I know its annoying - the vanish ads lie nothing gets spag bol out.

I get why you are so upset and i dont think you are being a pain in the arse but you cant change the situation ( a bit possibly) only the way you choose to react to it - i learnt this is SE Asia!

That's why I think Klik needs to talk to a medical professional, Handy.

Pnd. Hmm. I've wondered myself but as I mentioned earlier I'm too scared/proud/ashamed/embarrassed to think it might be real.

I think I'd feel more capable with more sleep. I'd have more energy to invest in my own happiness (exercise, reading, socializing). I feel like a zombie at the mo.

My husband didn't improve until I worked out I'd be financially better off on my own with tax credits and if he was causing more work than he was doing then I was rapidly losing respect for him and he might as well clear off.

He's also self-employed and not as proactive as he could be and while I was on ML he earned nothing and did nothing non-fun with DS either.

Sleep was the only thing that improved matters! We worked out that he was ok on a total of 8 hours even if broken but I needed a solid 7 hours so he did night waking in return for a lay in until 0815. DS started sleeping through at 18 months but we stopped offering milk at 9 months.

I think we've also worked out what our strengths are - I can plan and DH can do nitpicky stuff basically so we allocate tasks accordingly.

I also got more involved with his business and basically taught him what was profitable and what wasn't, while he does my invoicing and collections.

Incidently, when DS2 started waking up and bouncing all over the place (and constantly on and off the boob) between 1am and 4am every single bloody night, we soon discovered that he only stayed awake for an hour if DH took him into another room after I'd fed him. Win win.

Agree about nothing getting tomato stains out. I used to dress DS1 in dark clothes on pasta days!

I'm female and it took me several near ruined outfits to learn by experience that bibs etc were a must - he needs more experience both feeding the dds and washing clothes. some people plan upfront and some people tweak things the more they do the same tasks.

Oh, OP, you have what I used to call THE RAGE.

I had it when the kids were small, in the beginning, and it really was more than anger and irritation, it was THE RAGE!

Only once I really flipped, can't remember why (probably he was watching telly and having a beer whilst I was doing the washing up after finally having got the kids to sleep) and I threw ALL the dishes onto the floor (stupidly AFTER I washed them and started to howl/scream that he realised something was really wrong.

You need to get angry when you need to, and you need to start leaving him with the kids more often, so he understands a bit more.

Men cannot, simply cannot understand what it is like to be in sole charge of every fucking thing all day.

Also, get all the help you can get (cleaner, help from family, anyone who offers to babysit) and take time off for you alone (or with a friend) to clear your head.

you can work through this.

I was going to say

• long sleeved bibs, every meal, save a whole load of angst...

not unreasonable about the spaghetti, but only the person who does the laundry and clothes buying in the house would mind. Are you this person? probably yes. So only you mind. Everything ties in witheachother.

I honestly don't think he's doing any of this on purpose.

I'm very much like you - I think about everything, plan it all out, even a meal time (like getting the right top on/off for a messy dinner!). And my dp is like yours.

This is how he sees life: time is of no essence. Things do not need planning, they just seem to happen. It doesn't matter if the top gets spag bol on it, it goes in the wash. It makes me feel like nothing will happen unless I organise it. And I hate sounding bossy. So I have learnt to give very (un)subtle hints to get things moving/get some help. He potters. I am sytematic.

And he is not the only partner I've had like this: most of them have been. I just think it's because I was raised by a mother who managed everything and taught me how to do the same. I am slightly controlling/anxious. He was raised by a mother who allowed him to slack off and be a 'boy'. He never had to wash his own pants until he left. She always made dinner.

It's not that he doesn't want to be helpful, he never learnt how.

So, you will just need to be totally clear about what you expect from him.

1. You want more sleep. He needs to do more of the night feeds.
2. You want more free time. He needs to cope for 3 hours and you are going to switch off your phone.
3. He needs to make tea twice a week that is quick to the table and not a masterchef epsiode.
4. He needs to get the children cleaned and dressed on the lie in day.

You will just need to spell it out to him as he isn't getting it. If he doesn't help out after that then you have got a problem.

Good luck and hope you get more sleep x

complete lack of awareness of anything I need or feel.

This isn't normal. Does he chronically lack empathy? If so, you may eventually lose the plot trying to make this relationship work. Lists will not save you.

Is he bothered, on any level, about how tired and upset you are sometimes? Or does he think saying 'there,there' and hand patting will soothe it away - and you will then return to normal function ?

I think he just thinks my tiredness isn't his problem really. Not in a cruel dismissive way, just that it doesn't directly affect him. And that one day I'll get more sleep and everything will be fine again.

I don't think he understands the value and importance of his contribution to the overall running and happiness of the household. We've discussed that you get out what you put in but I think he distinctly lacks the ability to see that you have to do something to get from a to b rather than it just happening by magic.

Same with his work. He doesn't get that I'll happily invest time and effort into encouraging him if he'll do the same ultimately because it will benefit all of us. He just sees his work as his thing and doesn't understand why it should matter to me.

Place marking as I have one of these.....

In previous discussions I've told him he's like a lodger. He pays his monthly amount into the joint account, clears up after himself, comes along for days out with us, has his own hobbies that he goes off to do etc etc but adds very little else to the bigger picture of the marriage. I know that sounds horrid but it's true. We even joke about it now and again.

The phrase that came to mind was Rent-a-family. 'Wife, kids and organised home life - all for one easy monthly payment. No further input needed. Just sit back, relax, and look like a real family man- with none of the messy work.'

Yes, I agree it's like Rent-a-family.

He doesn't think the tiredness is a problem, because he doesn't think that you are a big deal, in the grand scheme of things. It's not something he thinks about.

This tells you what you need to know about how he sees you. Not as a three dimensional person, with feelings, whose life had changed immeasurably, and is running on empty, but now as a 'mum' ie a functional thing that facilitates everything, like a household appliance.

I feel for you OP as I feel exactly the same. It really gets to me in cycles and this is currently a bad one.

Advice I have been given from older, wiser women (not doormats) is as follows: Get a cleaner, get your shopping delivered online, accept that he will by and large never change and make sure that you out things in place for yourself to make your life more manageable.

I have not followed any of the above advice as it seems to me that by doing so I would be letting him get away with being so hopeless.

He (at times) drives me insane, but everyone else thinks he is fantastic.

Out = put