Gambling - £550 on MY credit card

[honeysuckleclimber]

I've just logged onto my credit card and find just over £550 has been paid out to a well known gambling website. A well known gambling website that DP prefers to use. Coincidence I think not... what makes it more shocking as this has all been added on since 22nd April, and £450 of it was two days worth

I am literally lost for words. I know DP likes a gamble but he'd told me he'd cut down, and I never had any idea it was at this sort of level. Ever. Stealing from my credit card?! I don't know what to do. sorry for rrambling, I am a bit blindsided

Familyguy, either the OP's partner is a gambling addict, in which case he needs professional treatment to have any chance at all of overcoming his illness and refraining from repeats (and he will need to be hugely self-motivated and keen to change in order to do so) or he chose to do this disgusting thing in stealing from the person he is meant to most love, which would enable him to respond to ultimatums... and would also mean he was in control of what he did.

So which is it? And why exactly should a woman stay with a man who is capable of treating her so horrendously, regardless of the motives and psychology for that? He committed a serious crime against her. Why the hell should she be fretting about how to give him a second chance?!

He's a criminal. A really horrible person, as you put it. He's stolen from her, saddled her with debt that will take a long time to pay off, and when she challenged him he did not give a shit. And you think she should try to save the relationship! You do know abuse does not always need a fist, right? Why are you so zealous to defend abusive men? What exactly do you think a man has a right to expect in terms of forgiveness from a woman?

How much I love him or not has to be pushed to the back of my mind right now and I'm thinking of my long term future.

Too right, OP.

Bluntly: if you want kids, you have a finite window of time in which to conceive them. Once you have a child with someone, he is in your life forever. He has stolen from you. That is how bad his addiction is, if it's an addiction... and if it isn't, then he thinks he has the right to treat you that way.

Someone like this is a bad husband, but a catastrophic parent. What sort of financial security could you ever give a child, when dad is capable of this? Not only would he model financial irresponsibility and ruthless, brutal selfishness, he would also create mayhem in terms of bailiffs, credit records, and in all likelihood evictions, IF he hung around to help you raise the kids you want, and you didn't at all times meet his needs.

You deserve better than this, and kids certainly do. Who wants a selfish, ruthless, thieving gambler as a father?!

Frankly in your shoes I'd be reporting the fraud, cancelling the card as you do it, and then advising your credit card company that the money was not spent by you, so you get it back. He did the crime, and appears disinterested in compensating you (agree with the poster commenting that he will have exhausted all other avenues) so he can do the damn time.

I'd also run a credit check on yourself. Experian offer a free month's trial so you can look at your record. You do not want to be oblivious, should he be attempting to gain credit in your name. And you don't want any financial links to him recorded, either - there's no joint account, is there?

In your shoes I would worry there was more debt secured on your name. I think reporting it as fraud will help you untangle this and find certainty that your credit record is good.

Familyguy, you sound deluded and naive - either that or you are a gambler yourself.

A friend had been with her DP for 6 years when she realised he had racked up about £30k in gambling debts. She had no idea. Most people don't because gamblers hide it so you are certainly no fool. They split as she couldn't handle the deceit. He seemed to think that although he had done wrong, the deceit wasn't as bad as say having an affair was. I think this is just part of the denial/justification of the gambler.

If your dp has a good job, he will have access to LOTS of credit. If he has been stealing fivers here and there the situation must be very bad and he will have mountains of debt squirrelled all over the place. Sounds like he is still hoping to keep it all under wraps as he is not admitting to anything and minimising the situation by laughing about it. He may well be frantically holding his life together at the moment so you could get your £600 back soon but it will probably be a payday load or the like.

Its heartbreaking but you will probably be better off walking away from this one. You will probably always worry and will never feel financially secure or be able to trust him with access to the family finances.

I would caution against 'making yourself available to him' and beign willing to talk to him, 'if he wants it'.

Don't get sucked in. Just don't. You seem to be leaning towards endign this relationship, which in light of the way things are stacking up - the £500, refusing to apologise and laughing in your face, justifying that particular bet in terms of you (in my book saying the winnings were going to be for you, is almost blaming you for that particular episode of gambling, the other small amounts taken from you, his father's history of gambling - I think is the only way to go.

So, you owe him nothing. You have no responsibility to be there for him. No good will come of it - you will only get heartache, stress and probably further deceit. Your responsibility towards him begins and ends with extricating yourself from this relationship in a mature and adult fashion. From then on, he's on his own. Your responsibility is now towards yourself, to move on and to heal.

You did not ask him to go win you anything, using YOUR credit card. He is lying to your face to save his skin.

If anything, it shows you that he will use ANY EXCUSE to justify betting on something.

Take him to small claims court to recover the money. They will take it from his earnings. Twat.

I'll never forget a family I saw in Tesco when lottery scratchcards were first on sale.

The dad had bought £20 worth and was frantically scratching the covers off the numbers. The kids were only little and were shouting "How much have we won?" The dad was getting more and more angry as each card showed he'd lost and when he scratched off the final one he went absolutely berserk. The kids were shouting, "But what about my toys?" and his wife was crying and he was yelling - it was awful. They looked as though they had no money to start with - that £20 was obviously needed.

The trouble is that gambling looks so easy. Most of us have bought a lottery ticket and been astounded when we didn't even get one number. The OP's partner is obviously the same - he thought he was guaranteed a win and he still believes it now. Nothing the OP says to him will stop him thinking that.

Imperial I've seen similar, it's sad.

Prior to the Lottery coming along, the Gaming Act was pretty strict and one of the things it forbade was any advertising which suggested that gambling was exciting or "cool", and it also forbade any advert that suggested you would win money.

The amendments to the Gaming Act to allow the National lottery to run were immense and they have led to this very relaxed atmosphere where the Lottery and scratch cards, in particular, are allowed to advertise pretty much any way they want. "One in 4 cards is a winner!" and similar straplines are just drawing in huge amounts of people, and it's not like you even have to go to a licensed premises now - just buy one at Tesco! in the petrol station! at the corner shop! online!

I'm not suggesting we look to the US model of all forms of gambling being illegal, but more regulation is needed. We license other addictive substances quite sharply - gambling should be no different.

Rant over, sorry OP.

I'm wondering how soon it will be before the guy is discovered to be "borrowing" from his employer. Hopefully he's not in the kind of job where he controls money, particularly other people's. (I expect it will be the OP's fault for having taken her credit card out of reach!)

I agree. It must be a nightmare now that everyone's online. You can bet 24/7 whereas in the past you had to wait for the betting shop to open. You can pay on your card, whereas you always had to pay cash (I seem to remember you couldn't pay by cheque as - guess what - the cheque might bounce!) You can bet in private, where you would have to place your bet in public. It must be so easy to get hooked on it.

He might have your cards registered on his various betting websites... I would cancel your debit cards too.

Remember, 90% of compulsive gamblers who seek treatment will relapse within a year. And that's people who get serious inpatient treatment. For people who get outpatient treatment, it's 98%. I can't find statistics on quitting compulsive gambling on one's own, but I'm going to assume it has, at best, a similar relapse rate to outpatient treatment. Your P might be willing to bet serious money on a 10-1 or 50-1 chance, but I wouldn't. And you are betting serious money on his recovery if you get back together with him, don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. He has shown you what he is like. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

I have been where you are now. My husband is a (now in recovery) compulsive gambler. We stayed together, but it has been a very very hard road, one which I don't think I'd take again, even though we now have a good, loving relationship.

Firstly, CGs are masters of deceit. They deceive everyone around them, and they deceive themselves. They are manipulative in the extreme, and they have completely warped views of the nature, value and mechanics of money. Him laughing at you is exactly the sort of thing that my husband would have done in the past. This is because he truly, in himself, cannot see that £500 wasn't his to use, and is a large sum of money. Gamblers can win and lose such huge sums so easily, especially online. They lose the ability to understand money at all, it is only about the thrill of putting on the bet.

The awfully sad thing is that it literally is all they can think of, and they will do anything in their power to keep the money going. My husband told me that, when he was gambling, if he had a phone call to say I'd been in a car crash while he was in the bookies, he'd still stop to put the bet on.

Recovery is so hard. The gambler has to make the decision for himself and has to agree to complete and utter openness. He also has to acknowledge the hurt and destruction he has created, and allow you to talk about it openly with him. This is really hard. My husband had three of four attempts - but each time he didn't "really" want to stop. So he didn't. He stopped for a bit, struggled, blamed me, started again. It was truly the worst time in my life.

I did a lot of reading and realised that he had to be forced to a "rock bottom" state, so I threw him out. He had absolutely no where to go. His parents had turned against him because of the behaviour the gambling caused. He owed money to his friends. His credit had run out, even payday loan companies wouldn't lend to him. He had nothing but the clothes he stood up in, and (thank god) his job.

He is now back, and is gamble free for nearly a year. He still can't handle money, or have access to the bank account. I give him cash when he needs it. He shows me receipts. I check his credit file monthly. I know that if he wanted to gamble, he could, despite all this. There are other things that convince me things really have changed. He is completely open with me, on all levels. He has a sponsor, who he checks in with regularly, but hasn't found group meetings particularly useful (I think this is a personal thing - they work for others).

So, I've got my husband, but I don't know when if ever he will learn a normal relationship with money. I've had to accept this. I've struggled to let go of the hurt and betrayal and complete blinding fury around how he behaved and what he did. The only way I've been able to even start is because he's faced up to it completely. If he lies to me again, about anything at all, that is it and he knows it.

But, would I do it again or recommend it to anyone else? Not a chance. It is a hard hard road, and mine may yet end with him relapsing and our relationship ending. Gambling is so unbelievably destructive to those who are compulsive. I was totally naive about it until it him me full on in the face.

Thank you for sharing that, ultrathule. It had a lot of impact when reading it - an unbelievably tough situation for you.

Out of interest, did you have any DCs while this was going on? Did that make any difference to you?

No children (we had already decided we didn't want to have them). If I had children there is no way on earth I would have supported him the way I did.
Mine never stole directly from me. He manipulated me into releasing money for him to use through lying and twisting. But he never actually stole outright. Perhaps that would have changed things.
The awful thing is that gambling changed him completely from a loving, kind person into a complete and utter bastard. He's had to rediscover his own identity - almost like reschooling himself. More than just gambling. He's thrown himself into training to do an Ironman triathlon, and that has helped hugely to take up the frustration and anger out on the road or pool.....

I'm not suggesting we look to the US model of all forms of gambling being illegal, but more regulation is needed.

That's no longer true in the US, if it ever was. We have state lotteries and a Powerball lottery that can be played in many states. I remember seeing lottery commercials on TV in the 80's, so we've had them for a while.

States have generally been relaxing restrictions on gambling in the last 30 years or so (it's generally regulated on a state or local level here). Of course, we've had legal casinos in Las Vegas since the end of WWII, and since 1976 in Atlantic City. A number of Native American tribes (which operate under various treaties and laws, and are exempt from some state laws) have casinos, too. People in the US, as far as I know, can get to online gambling sites (I have no particular interest in gambling beyond buying a Powerball ticket when the jackpot gets really big, so I haven't tried).

Pennsylvania, where I live, doesn't let you use a credit card to buy lottery tickets. I'm not sure if this is the case in other states. We have a couple of casinos here in the Pittsburgh area, but I've never been to either of them. In addition to gambling not having much attraction for me, casinos (in Las Vegas at least) allow smoking in the casinos. I'm allergic to cigarette smoke, and it STINKS, so I do not like being in them at all. I don't know if the ones here do that (though there's research showing that smokers gamble more, so casino owners generally want to allow smoking), but it's an additional disincentive for me to go to a casino. I generally avoid buffets because I know I tend to overeat at them to the point that I feel bad later (I will never, ever go back to an Indian buffet that offers samosas again, not after how I felt after eating 6 of them at a buffet once), so the buffets that some casinos offer aren't attractive to me, either.

ImperialBlether

Let me be clear that I do not condone his behavior at all it is basically theft and this is extremely wrong.

However I think he is trying to hide his remorse and sickness with his blase explanations.

I do not believe I advocated a soft approach. What I said that as the OP described her partner as a loving caring thoughtful person he is probably feeling more remorse than he lets on.

So I feel if given an ultimatum it may well be enough to help him relaise he has a big problem and change. As he has what OP described as a generous salary money in no the probable but gambling is.

I do not understand the question about my boundary's or the relevance of the question perhaps you could rephrase the question to me?

We can buy lottery tickets at grocery stores, gas stations, and places like that, too, we don't have to go to special betting shops to get them (at least not in Pennsylvania). I have heard that some convenience stores in Nevada have slot machines. I know the Las Vegas airport does.

Only Alabama, Alaska, Hawaii, Mississippi, Utah, and Nevada (guess it would compete with the casinos) don't offer state lotteries here. All the other states do.

honeysuckleclimber

Again I don not condone his lack of honesty or his theft.

I really feel for you in your situation and I completely agree that without honesty a relationship is doomed.

However there are degrees of gambling addiction and as a young guy with no children he may feel as he would pay you back with his salary no harm has been done to anyone and in a sense he would be right.

So he may just be in denial and an ultimatum may have been enough to stop his degeneracy as he may be in denial about the level of his addiction.

Obviously this is your decision to make and I totally understand your choice and your reasoning for it so I wish you luck with your new start.

Debts easy to hide, online cc statements make it really easy.

When Dh split with his ex she had £25000 of debt. He had no idea at all.

However I think he is trying to hide his remorse and sickness with his blase explanations.

That may be true. But, quite literally in this case, how much would you be willing to bet on that?

Even if he does acknowledge that he has a problem, and does seek treatment for it, treatment for compulsive gambling has a dismal success rate. At least that's how I'd describe a 10% success rate for inpatient treatment and a 2% success rate for outpatient (and this assumes that nobody relapses after one year or more without gambling, which is probably not a safe assumption).

He is, at the very least, not acknowledging the extent of the problem to the OP. That's not a good sign.