To not want custody

[SilentPonderings]

Background:

10 year marriage.
2 kids (aged 3 and 4).
Marriage breakdown imminent.

I was a SAHM for 4 years. Hated it (pnd, amongst other things). Now I work fulltime - it is definitely where I belong. Wage is low but with great opportunity for advancement (I'm being trained).

AIBU to not want custody of the children? It seems very atypical for a woman to declare this. Essentially I want to take the traditionally masculine role of moving out of the family home and seeing the children at the weekends.

Can i just say that you come across as scared and lacking confidence as a mother, but not unloving at all. I think you probably struggled like most mothers do, I know I did. But you beat yourself up for feeling how you did, like you was a bad mother or not maternal enough because you struggled. Am I right in saying that you fear been back in that place? If so you should stop listening to those fear thoughts, stop listening to the negativity in your head. No mother is perfect, we struggle, sometimes think why me, don't always want to do the things our role entails. I think for a long time you have labelled yourself as not capable, different to other mothers and you have struggled.

If there is any truth in what I have said I want you to know that I once struggled the same way as you, my ex put it in my head I couldn't cope, our relationship was toxic, he convinced me my youngest child didn't like me and preferred him etc. I left him and I have my children 4 nights a week, some weeks upto 7. My confidence grew, I started to see the good in my parenring, enjoying the role. I now take pride in everything I do that positively effects my children, I feel a natural mother and very maternal. I find a lot of my friends looking upto my parenting and often I like to remind them that I once struggled too. No mother should be left to feel she isn't capable and to judge herself by what she sees around her. The fact is most people don't tell each other they find parenting hard, they don't write on Facebook they have been up all night with zero sleep and since scared they might not be cut out for motherhood.

I just wanted to write that as I have been there and come through the other side, find yourself a good therapist who can help with your self esteem, i wish you all the best with whatever choices you make and I hope you can learn not to judge and label yourself. Nobody copes perfectly, we all have struggles. If you can learn from your fears you can overcome them :)

Oh goodness, your H calls you a "shit mother"?? What a fucking bastard.

However bad things are between me and my DH occasionally, he never ever tells me I'm a shit mother, even when I think I am. That's because he's not an abusive cunt. Your H is.

As an aside, I suggest you remove the D from in front of your H when you're discussing him - he doesn't sound very "D" at all!! It helps the brain to accept imminent separation etc. if you stop calling him "D".

good re counselling

another to say tread very warily on the relate mediation- as it might backfire. I think relate are a bit pants personaly.

However agree 100% that

counselling (yay!)
lawyer
and mediation will help get this sorted

or get you strong, and focussed as how can you be the best for your family if you are emotionally upset/confused. Just TALKING to someone will help, trust me X

but get yourself strong and clear before embarking, honestly a months shit is better than rushing into a lifetime decision

have you tried here
www.cafcass.gov.uk/about-cafcass/commissioned-services-and-contact-activities/spip.aspx

YADNBU. You know yourself best & you owe nobody any explanations.

A couple of points I urge you to consider..

• you've done the hardest years of child rearing (0-5 IMO). The years ahead are more fun & less work (physically). Just be careful you don't judge the future based on your experience of the past.
• you might be feeling a certain way now..based on Pnd & your liberation through your career. But would you feel the same way when the kids are older? 9/10 or 12/13? If you think you would need more time later then you'll need to factor that in now.
• if your DH remarries & another woman becomes your children's main carer with your husband, would that bother you?
• would your children hold your absence against you? Or are you certain you can ensure a great relationship even with 2/7 days?

Just things to consider when you make your final decision. Good luck with it all.

I feel for you!

Do you have to settle divorce arrangements right now?

If that were me, I think I'd try renting locally for a few months and seeing if I could make something modified work - if not 50/50, then every other weekend plus a weekday if you can work from home sometimes. I think you should consider any potential flexibility in your work, now and in the future. FWIW most women I know were desperate to go back to work following maternity leave, but over time, the holy grail for many of them is a bit of homeworking/slightly reduced hours within a fulfilling career. Have you really had the time to know what you want in that respect? (though I fully appreciate your decision to work most of the time)

I just feel that with a 3 and 4 year old, this is a transitional period. As others say, every weekend doesn't work well for kids because they'll have local activities - you could find yourself having very little contact in future years.

You would be a better person if you were on benefits and with those two children, rather than working. You do not matter as much as either of those children you chose to bring into the world. Abusive men need escaping from, but you take the damn kids WITH YOU, woman.

maple you sound unhinged!

She is talking about walking away from two little children, with seemingly little in the way of feeling or emotion, leaving them with a man she is more than hinting is abusive. I am not unhinged. Ive been through the refuge system, and so many women fight so hard to stay with their children. To just walk away and be made happier by a job than your own small children is not right. You might say it is...unhinged.

maple - just asking - have you read all the OP's posts? It's unlikely that she's completely in the right place to make decisions of this import, and she has acknowledged that and is rethinking.

Her H has messed her head up with respect to her abilities as a parent - she thought he was a good father, she's rethinking that and a lot of other things.

I think it's perfectly possible for someone to be a bad husband and a good father. This is not the kind of relationship people enter refuges to escape from and I am sure if the DH were that bad the OP would indeed fight to stay with the children.

However flawed he is as a DH the OP says he is a better parent than her. My ex is a better parent than me, and it is mind boggling the amount of people who don't believe me on that just because he is a man.

However flawed he is as a DH the OP says he is a better parent than her.
Well, I don't know if that means it is a fact, Dark.

It is very hard for an inexperienced mum to be frequently told that she is a shit mum. We don't know really what the truth is, but how is she expected to enjoy being a mother or blow her own trumpet under those circumstances.

leaving them with a man she is more than hinting is abusive
Again the OP has not used that term and may be unfamiliar with the concept of emotional abuse. A lot of people still think that if there is no violence there is no abuse.

yes, dark - she also says that he pulls the "shit mother" card on her fairly often. That isn't the mark of a good husband or father.

I had 'PND', too. Got all the treatment; everyone was very nice to me. I knew all along I had abusive husband depression - but I went along with the pnd thing bcs everyone was being so nice. V little understanding of abusers in those days (dark ages - actually about 20 years ago).

Really worried about you going to counselling with your abuser. Please don't!

You sound traumatised to me. I certainly was when I was in your position.

YAY that he's talking about moving out! Wouldn't be surprised if your aversion to/lack of confidence in your parenting vanished as soon as shitface buggers off. I see he's doing the exact opposite of what you want (and need re your job under threat). It is a risky strategy - you have to have nerves of steel - but could you capitalise on that? Worked every time with my abuser re asked for the opposite of what I wanted. Worked like clockwork...

I see your thread was initially in AIBU [what were you THINKING?!?] hence vicious, kneejerk replies; glad to see it has been moved to the appropriate place.

You are doing well. Keep going. Fully engage with WA, do the Freedom Programme (like, asap), read Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That?, read up on trauma.

Wishing you well, one survivor to another

Dark it might be easier to believe this man was a better parent if he had ever been the SAHP at all, if he didn't constantly tell her she is a shit mother, and if he hadn't morphed with dizzying speed from "I'll fight you for custody!" to "I'll move out and leave you completely alone and without any support with the kids unless you stay on my terms and don't say anything I don't like to the counsellor!"

That isn't my notion of a great dad. It's my notion of an abusive arse.

OP, finding very small kids boring and hard work is very common. People just don't admit to it very much. It doesn't mean you will find older kids either boring or very hard work, either, and given parenthood is a marathon and not a sprint you may well be a fantastic parent over the long haul. If you love them and are engaged when with them, and supply excellent child care while you work, you're doing just fine. You're allowed to find the drudgery and grind oppressive, despite loving them very much. My husband does, and my mother totally understands him on it and says she always felt the same. He and she needed to work as well as parent. I'm a happy SAHP. Neither is a better parent, IMO. Knowing what works for you and your kids and then supplying it is what defines your adequacy, to my mind. Self-awareness. Which (except when it comes to your husband, who sounds increasingly grisly to be honest) you show.

Dark a good afther doesn't use his dcs as a weapon in the middle of a divorce.
He doesn't use them to try and get at his stbexW by saying he will get the dcs full time and be the RP to then say he is leaving the house and the dcs with her....

I agree that IF he was a good father, then what the OP is proposing could be a possible solution.
The fact she thought about it and put her dcs welfare first is a sign of a caring parent.
When a parent does what her H is doing, then he is showing the dcs welfare isn't his top priority and THAT is is a sign of a not so good parent.

And that's wo the fact that an abusive husband is likely to be an abusive father (even if it's just to spite their mother by using them again against her)

I have only read first two pages but my experience might help a little. My dh's ex-wife left him and her 3 dc as she wanted a career. The dc were older than yours when she left.
When dh and I married they were young teens. They are all now in their 40's and have never been able to fully forgive their mother for deserting them for selfish reasons. They all have a very strained relationship with her and for many years they didn't allow their dc to see much of her. Her two dil's hate having her in the house. She eventually remarried and had another child which is when her older dchildren renewed contact as they felt their half sister would need them one day.
You must do what you must for yourself but, ultimately, you may lose more than you can begin to imagine.

Lots of people have been giving very good advice. The most important imo is don't rush. Whatever arrangements you come up right at the start will become the status quo. From there is it possible to change contact arrangements but rarely residence arrangements unless there is clearly an over-riding reason for doing so.

I had a mother with unacknowledged mental health issues and she didn't enjoy being with us, made it clear getting married and having children ruined her life (the only 'wisdom'she ever imparted, repeating it like a mantra throughout our teens and adulthood).

She would say she wanted to leave us regularly and then disappear for a few days then come back as if nothing happened

She was cold and brittle and not like the warm and loving mum in books/films/or like friend's mums.

But despite all this having her around was infinitely better than not having her around mainly because it is the children who feel guilty if the mother is depressed/unhappy.

I always thought it was my fault she was like that so her leaving would have been the ultimate rejection which would have been far far more damaging.

Do not leave your dc op you will cause immeasurable and lifelong hurt and damage and punishment to your children. It is not their fault you feel the way you do.

They do not need a perfect mother, they need you in their lives no matter what. Please put them first. You can get a career anytime but you only get one shot at bringing up your babies.

Concentrate on getting help and if your dh is as good as you say he is tell him you want to improve your parenting.

There is alot you can do, your posts sound like you have accepted you are a bad parent, that sounds like you are giving up on it. That can change op.

It's time to take back control and all the positive steps outlined here and all the handholding on here can help you.

Good luck op x

I really wish people would read the thread, or at least all the OP's posts!!

I agree. Posting without reading at a minimum the OP's complete posts is worse than rude, on a thread in Relationships. It can actually be damaging.

Are you sure you're not just overwhelmed and burnt out from being a sahm? Maybe you just need some space and time.
I felt like this for a while but unsurprisingly felt much better when I got rid of abusive xp and became a single mum and had whole weekends to myself

I just want to say how brave the women are on this thread confessing that parenting hasn't cone as easily as they hoped. I feel the same way, but fake it till you make it is good advice.

Op, like others have said, it doesn't have to be nrp working plus rp sahm, there is no reason why you couldn't carry on working and be the rp. If your income is low you should get 70% of childcare costs back in tax credits, and I'm sure their grandparents will still want some time with them.

Good luck

So I've read the full thread, and it seems most people are of the opinion that a mother leaving to become NRP will be more damaging than a father doing the same.

Is that really the case? Is it just "normal" in our society for mothers to get RP, so a child who stays with the father (whatever the reasons) will feel abandoned by the mother? But not the other way round?

Genuinely interested why people see this as the case. In a 50/50 relationship, where both parents do equal amounts of childcare, housework and WOH, is it more damaging for the mother or father to leave?

If dads as RP were more societally acceptable, would children suffer less if the mother left?

I think Micah it is more socially acceptable for the children to stay with their mother and, unfortunately, the children feel this too.

Personally I have no problem with the father being the resident parent IF he is the one with more of a vocation for parenting, but unfortunately it does not seem to be the case here.

It looks like the mother might not have a had a chance to enjoy and be confident about being a mother, while the father only seems to have wanted the children to spite the mother.

The point of this thread is support for the OP in her particular situation, Micah.