To not want custody

[SilentPonderings]

Background:

10 year marriage.
2 kids (aged 3 and 4).
Marriage breakdown imminent.

I was a SAHM for 4 years. Hated it (pnd, amongst other things). Now I work fulltime - it is definitely where I belong. Wage is low but with great opportunity for advancement (I'm being trained).

AIBU to not want custody of the children? It seems very atypical for a woman to declare this. Essentially I want to take the traditionally masculine role of moving out of the family home and seeing the children at the weekends.

What and who is normal, laughingcow?

You have a very narrow view of the world.

I wouldn't go to joint counselling with this man. I think he is the source of the problem. Counselling on your own to figure things out.

Parenting doesn't come easily to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that it's better for them to throw in the towel. Two children under 4, PND, not being a natural SAHM - you've had all of the worst bits at once. As soon as they're in school, things change dramatically.

I reckon the problem is with your husband and you find workplace a relief because you're away from him. I think you're lumping your children with him and you think want to escape all of it. I would suggest that you don't throw the babies out with the bathwater and make custody choices from a negative viewpoint, that you may come to regret later on.

I'm not judging you, I'm simply not sure that you're in a good place to make the right choice for yourself.

OP I'm afraid that (in amongst the more helpful replies) the pitchforks are out again. I really think you should follow up on earlier suggestions - start a new thread (rather than moving this one because it'll still show up on "threads I'm on") either in relationships

Opps posted too soon - or in off the beaten track

Well laughing cow, my 'normal' in my work is mother's who take drugs, drink and lot and neglect their children quite horribly.

Perhaps the 'tidal wave' of love they were meant to be feeling was just more of a gentle swell on those days.

I don't think 'normal' is a very helpful concept. Better to ask what is needed in a certain situation to keep everyone safe. Better that the op is honest about what she feels and what she needs. Her judgment may be clouded because of depression or relationship problems. But I don't see how insisting she is 'not normal' is helping anyone.

I dont know your back story and forgive me if I am jumping to conclusions but.....

They say abuse often doesnt show up until there are children, especially if the mother gives up financial security and is then dependant. The balance of power shifts and the abuse can start to sneak up.

Its bloody hard changing from someone who works, is viewed as an equal, and has 'value' in the world (and I use commas because 'value' does seem to be attributed by society as anyone who brings in a wage/pays tax) into someone who may feel at a loss and isolated bringing up a baby without any support, and who's status has dropped through the floor. To then add in another baby before the dust has settled, meaning no end in sight, and possibly the loss of a job that had maternity pay attached(?) - its easy to drop into depression.

A marriage with the power shifting, where suddenly you have fallen back into the 1950s and taken on all the drudgery of housework/night time feeds, no time off, whilst the partner seems to have his life actually IMPROVED (absolved of all household duties and suddenly elevated to Lord of the House) creates alot of tension, even IF the husband is kind and helpful. If he actually starts to throw his weight around, take advantage of being able to swan off willy nilly, control the finances, and its a recipe for unhappiness. What may look like PND may actually be a reflection on the marriage.

So now, after 4 long years of suffering this, exhausted, and berating yourself for being short tempered/uninterested/irritable (and its easy to be the calm and lovely parent if you can drop in and out at your own convenience as he can, if the rest of your life is bolstered by adult conversation, career, etc) you have gone back to work and you love it. You love the financial freedom of it. You enjoy the challenge. You enjoy feeling like a person again. And why wouldnt you.

Its obvious that you love your children - the little you say about them reflects that. I dont think that you want to leave them, but I think you want to be working too. Its fine. Many people feel the same - doesnt make you a bad mother.

But Im guessing hubby isnt too impressed. From you carrying everything for the last 4 years you are expecting him to pick up the slack like you have been doing. To arrange pick ups between you. To have some spare time yourself. To take a share in running the home and taking responsibility for everything. It has inconvenienced him. Im guessing that he wants you to give up your job and return into the home, that he belittles your job because the money it brings in is not comparable to his wage, and he resents having to pick his dirty pants off the floor. Irrespective of what the job does for you as a person, or what prospects it may have.

So he is trying tactics to pull you back into line.

I may be right off the mark, and apologise if I am.

I think Twinkle is onto something. Perhaps you have posted under another name about your relationship, it seems slightly familiar to me.

Anyway, is not 'just' about parental residency, I don't think. There is something amiss when a person says 'I'll fight you for custody'. Even more strange - when that is calmly offered, he then decides he wants 50:50.

The basis of both these decisions seems to be obstructing you, rather than the best interests of the children.

I wonder if you were undermined as a parent, and if this forms part of your view of yourself as a parent. Just a thought.

...I missed some of your later posts, Silent (site loading problems). I see the situation has moved on, if in a rather unexpected way.

It has moved in a completely expected way: the OP's husband is an abusive man, who wants to "win".

This means manipulating the situation so that the OP gets the opposite of what she stated she wants.

He never wanted to fight for custody because he wanted the DC: he wanted to fight for custody to defeat the OP.
Now that the OP has stated she wouldn't fight him, he wants to leave all 3 of them in the family home, so that she is de facto RP. Since this is the new situations where he gets to "defeat" her.

It is no wonder the OP has had years of depression: she has been living with a partner whose goal is her defeat, by whatever means.

OP: mediation with this man is a very poor idea.

What you need is a shit-hot lawyer, who will fight in your stead, on the neutral battlefield of The Law.

What your husband wants is to fight dirty, to tear you down, on the totally emotional field of your feelings. Don't allow him this. The "neutral third party" of mediation does not have the mandate of defending your best interests. You, in your depressed state, are not equipped to defend your best interests. Only a shit-hot lawyer will do.

Please hire one.

Also, on the paramount subject of your children's best interests: since their father is abusive, he is not a safe pair of hands. I think that once you are divorced and the fog has cleared, you will realise that you are a fine parent. And he is not. You can work and get childcare, and still be RP or 50-50.

He is the one making you depressed, making your domestic life toxic. Not your DC. And you WILL be rid of him soon: he cannot escape the finality of divorce, he's just going to be a shitty arse throughout the whole process.

I wish you strength and courage. This will pass, you will have the job you love, and be free from marriage to this man. You will be a happier person. And most likely a happier mother, too, as a result.

GoatsDoRoam
Exactly!

In fact the only way to deal with this type of person who to ask for the opposite of what you want.

OP, please phone Women's Aid on 0808 2000 247, and ask them if they can recommend a family law solicitor in your area who has experience of abusive men in divorce cases.

Get a lawyer to fight your battles for you.
It will save your sanity.

Indeed, Goats: no real surprises there, sadly.

I think I am a bit like you OP. Hated being a SAHM, Ex DH much better parent than me. I am now much happier divorced with 50/50 custody than I ever was living in a family full time - and yes my DD is fab, but I am happier not being a full time parent.

My ex and I live about half a mile away from each other and I think that helps things run smoothly - I would not move towns, makes sharing custody much more difficult.

I agree with what NettleTea, Goats and trackr are saying above. No wonder you can't think straight. How do you even know what kind of parent you will be when your partner, the other parent, is controlling and manipulative!
You can be a great, working, single parent - it is MUCH easier than being a partnered parent if that partner is abusive

Haven't read all OP but no... you sound like you know what works best for you and if you can arrange that with your kid's dad try to make that work - and you can spend quality time with your kids in weekends and holidays to have a strong relationship and show them they are loved. Sadly there is society's expectation that mums are more suited to being the "full time" parent but don't let that get to you. Do what's best for you and your family x

OP - don't have any hopes of what mediation might bring. You need to go because of being seen to jump through the correct hoops - but it will almost certainly not achieve anything positive for you.

Refuse Relate couples counselling as it is not recommended in abusive relationships. Call Women's Aid and see what help/advice they can offer you

It is clear from what is happening that your H is indeed trying to control the situation and regain the upper hand, and in fact has no interest in what is best for your children. This automatically relegates him out of the "good parent" category, and into "manipulative bastard who will use the children as pawns to get his own way" category.

Go to the GP to get whatever support is available, get on the waiting list for counselling if necessary, get the PND assessment. Get things moving because, as you say, you might have decisions forced on you before you're ready to make them.

Oh OP, you sound so burdened by stuff, by baggage, by your partner.

It sounds like you want to escape more than anything and I would agree (sorry if this is frustrating) that you don't sound 100% right, whether that's depression or simply the fear of being stuck with your husband talking, I don't know.

But it's not a stark choice of being apart from your children OR full-time carer. If somehow it ends up with you having custody, so long as your wage covers childcare (not always a given) then you can still have other people doing the childcare drudgery and you can be there for them in the evenings and weekends and it will (probably!) be bearable.

Your DP is clearly trying to provoke you. Please don't listen.

Try not to let him bother you, but also try not to put what's best for the children at the bottom of all this. They actually do need to come first.

fwiw I judge parents who walk away without a second glance (not saying this is actually what you're contemplating) regardless of gender.

OP, I really think, from his present behaviour, that your husband has made the early years of your children very frustrating and unsatisfactory for you. It doesn't have to be like that in future, honestly.

The more I think about this, the more I think that a man who is jumping between I will have the children full time and you have them full time is NOT a good father. OP has brought the DC up as a SAHM for four years, whilst suffering mental health difficulties. A good father would be saying to OP, we are BOTH important to DC as parents; how can we best BOTH maintain a role in their lives?
Though to be honest, the conversation should not have got that far - OP clearly needs a break and a good father would not have let her go four years without one to the extent that the only respite she can see is in her job in another city.

OP here, I've read everyone's comments. Thank you. This thread is the strong hand-holding I needed.

TheMagnificientFour you're absolutely right, I need to take control - less the passive 'victim' mentality. Today I'm being assessed to see what counselling is appropriate, and on Thursday it's the Relate couple counselling. I'm thinking that in a month or so, I'll have a better idea of what is the most 'sane' (for the armchair psychiatrists amongst you, choosing my words here!) course of action within the children's best interests.

NettleTea you've made some salient points. I think my marriage is one big power struggle, not what I had envisaged. In a relationship, I aim to be a team player, not an opponent. Whilst he does not belittle my work (he can't, it's awesome), he does pull out the 'shit mother' card on a regular basis.

GoatsDoRoam I'm familiar with the local Woman's Aid (have taken a friend there before) and will make myself an appointment to discuss lawyers.

ThumbWitchesAbroad I'm hoping the Relate counselling will buy me some time to get myself strong and ready for this transition.

Please just fake your way through Thursday's couples' counselling session, then. Your H will use it to get the counsellor on side, fuck with your head, and make you feel at fault for everything. And you are ALREADY taking way more blame than is your due, so this will be hard for you to resist.

Or find a reason to cancel it - you're ill, or whatever.

There are other ways to bide your time and build your strength than giving an abuser an open shot at your emotions and your most vulnerable spots... He won't hold back. You don't have to put yourself through this.

that's my 2 cents anyway. But I'll grant you that I did do a year of couples' counselling with my abusive ex-h. It just heightened my spaghetti head mess and did me no good, but I survived and still found my way out of that relationship. So if you feel it's something you need to go through, then do what you gotta do.

My lawyer was money WAY better spent, though .

he does put out the 'shit mother' card on a regular basis
Why am I not surprised?

I agree with Goats. Your job has given you some self esteem back as well as some strength. Use it and get strength whilst you are appeasing him to gain time.
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if he is doing another U turn and is refusing to go to Relate. Or will use it to put you down even more and make you feel shit.

I'm smiling wryly at the fact you calmly said "You can have them, DH"

So many men (including my STBXH) believe (rightly in most cases) that they can create maximum suffering and hell for their wives by threatening to have the children "taken off you".

I would love to have said to him "keep them, then" to my H. I wonder how many of these "I'll take the children off you" twats would backtrack upon hearing those words.

But I digress.

You may be feeling that saying "keep them then" is a way of getting rid of the control your husband may have over you. I mean, you are completely right in that respect. If you go down this route he hasn't got a leg to stand on, although he would certainly claim maintenance from you.

What I would say is that 3 and 4 is so very young, your children are babies really, and it is very hard until they get to about 8 years old. You may change the way you feel, you may not. Whatever you decide, as long as you keep the lines of communication open with your children you, and they, should be fine.

Good luck with it all.