Just what do you have against marriage?

[DumbledoresGirl]

All you girls who are thinking of getting married after YorkieGirl's advice but just can't bring yourself to do it, or are only doing it because of the legal implications, please explain to me, what have you got against marriage? I won't agree with you, but I would love to understand more about your reasoning.

DH and i were determined not to get married merely because we thought it a bit cool and subversive to say f*ck convention. YG is completely right though, when Dh was critically ill I was not his next of kin so couldn't give permission for medical treatment and the hospital dealt only with FIL. It really scared me how few rights I had and made me realise what a vulnerable position dd and I were in.

We got married because I never want to be in that position ever again, also, if I'm taken ill I want dh to be making decisions on my behalf.

Oh and, btw, we had a small cheapy wedding. We wanted a marriage, not a wedding. Couldn't bear the whole bridezilla thing.

Actually MB, it was me that said children changed the relationship not marriage...

I have to say that, if dh and I were not married, we would most likely have split up when ds was between birth and 2. We nearly did twice as it was but managed to cling on to the vestiges of our marriage. I honestly think that I would have found it easier (mentally, not financially) to walk away if I had not said those vows. We had a civil ceremony but the words still meant the same to me. I don't believe in God so saying it in church would have meant less.

Have never been interested in marriage and, usually, find weddings to be dull, dull, ull things. But,am realising that it would make life an awful lot easier if we were married - am trying to buy a house with partner, I have an older child and we have one between us. She could force teh sale of teh house to get her money should I die without making a proper will

Think you should be able to get married online nowadays, really. Just press a Send button before you go to bed and then wake up married.

Message withdrawn

Wha a fabulous idea Tinker, all i would have to do is get him drunk

I had to pay a lot of money to my ex on divorce so that's a bit offputting, the fact per nuptials aren't enforceable etc and thatn 60 - 70% of second marriages fail.

As a Catholic (our marriage was annulled) and a traditionalist in some ways I prefer being a wife. I like the word. I like the connotations.

People tend to stay together much more if they're married in every study ever done. There is a huge difference if you split up and aren't married compared to if you aren't. If you're not married you can't claim spousal maintenance from your other half (common law marriage doesn't exist although that law may change) and if the house isn't in your name your ex can mostly keep it. Also if you die you have to pay 40% inheritance tax and may lose your home if you're not married but none if you are.

Because I don't want a surreptitious wedding (I'm not something to be ashamed of); and I don't want a big public do with my parents there and everyone thinking 'oh, she's doing the sensible thing'. I don't want to commit to spending years of my life with someone I might feel very differently about in a few years' time (every would-be long term relationship I've had before has fallen through, what makes you think this one won't? One in three marriages ends in divorce, you know). And I certainly feel absolutely no damn urge to 'legitimise' my beautiful daughters.

OK? Enough?

i'm doing it for the legal implications! don't need to prove to anyone of our committment to each other

Those choosing not to marry may want to make sure they have a written agreement with the person they live with particularly if properties are involved and do a bit of inheritance tax planning.

The 60% - 70%? It's the same in the US and UK sadly and I think it may be where one side has children (huge source of conflict in second marriages) and were married before.

This is a fascinating thread and it always strikes me how passionately people feel about marriage depending on whether they feel it is necessary for them. I think therein lies the critical point. The married amongst us fight vociferously against the arguments that 'it's just a bit of paper' or 'who wants to be a wife?' because surely they all feel that 'that's not my experience at all'. Likewise some of the unmarried contend that women choosing to marry have entered into some kind of patriarchal institution which will materially change their way of life and surely they all think 'well, that' isn't for me'. What I am ineloquently trying to say is that one person's experience or opinion of marriage is not somebody else's and the argument is conducted from eternally opposing vantage points. I can tell you why I am married and why it works for me, but I can never recommend it to anybody else. I can however recommend (YG's original point) that anybody who is committed to their children or their partner should work hard to know what could happen if certain eventualities occur and to plan for the most terrible situations like the one YG finds herself in.

I am married first and foremost because I want to be. I am proud that DH is my family and that this is legally recognised. I appreciate the constancy of marriage, that no matter how far apart we are or how transient anything else in my life is, he is still my husband today and will be tomorrow. If we merely co-habited and we split up today, he could walk out of the door and the union would end. Perhaps that freedom is welcome for some people, but I choose to be married because I like the permanence of it. Certainly, our child and any future children could be argued as a permanent link between us, but ultimately if this relationship failed then I fully expect DH's committment to our children to be just that- not a committment to me. I sacrifice nothing to be a wife but what I gain is something I value and cannot really express to anybody else.

I really am waffling and probably making no sense.

I'm glad someone started this thread. Have been thinking about doing it myself for a while actually. Mainly b/c I have found it to be so curious that so many MN'ers seem to have dp's instead of dh's. I'm wondering if it's different in the UK or if it's just because I live in the southern US which does tend to be more traditional. I only know of one couple who have children and are not married, but I think the children are from a previous marriage.

I remember when dh and I first started dating. The magic of the relationship was so strong that topic of marriage came up fairly soon. For some reason, we both just felt that we wanted to make that commitment to each other, even though at that time we had no thoughts of having children and had both experienced disastrous first marriages with a long period of being single. We didn't actually get married until we had been together for a year and a half and absolutely nothing changed for the worse. It only enhanced our feelings for each other.

Now, having children...that's another story. We're still trying to figure that one out. Seems like everything changes afterward, although my severe PND was a definite factor for a while

Anyway, FWIW, my feeling is that you need to know quite clearly your position legally if you are not married. As YG has so generously shared, it does make a difference. If you have children, I do believe that their future welfare should take priority over everything else.

I haven't read the whole thread, but noticed some of the comments re: cleaning, etc. Before we had ds, dh did virtually all the cleaning, shopping and cooking, as he worked part-time from home and I worked full-time. Now things are a bit different and we share chores.

Pruni, just noticed your post. My parents have been married for 53 years and still going strong, dh's until death. That may have a factor in our attitude toward marriage, even though we both had failed "practice" marriages when we were young. Try, try again as they say

As far as weddings go, we had a wonderful party of a wedding in the art gallery that had ds's work at the time. We did the whole thing in there, ceremony and reception. I think I spent about $2500 on the whole bit, including my dress! (Got it at a fab vintage store for $50 - people raved about it) So many people came up to us and said it was the best wedding they had ever been to. Very non-traditional ceremony and music.

And, as has been said before, you can just go to the registery and then have a nice lunch afterwards if you want to keep it really simple.

I don't want to be a wife. I don't want to be part of a 'family' either, come to that. I live, at the moment, with my children and their father. That arrangement suits us all and makes us happy at the moment. I find myself - rather to my own surprise - too much of a romantic and too much of an anarchist to want to impose the framework of a state sanction on that.

And if it means I lose out financially if DP pops his clogs, that is a pity, of course.

This is an honest question MI. Isn't having children with someone about as big a comittment you can make in life? As a biologist I can't think of anything bigger Unless it is offering someone nice plates

Yes, but I didn't actually decide to have children, if you remember

Ah no, I didn't know that [foot in mouth emoticon needed]

The nicest people are accidents, my dh and two neices to name but three

But you have more than one don't you? Do you want me to explain things

And the enterprise of co-parenting is different - to me at any rate - because it is an ongoing, dynamic, social contract (insofar as it is a contract) which is focused on two other people. It's about them, not us. I can see that for some people the official state stuff to do with marriage is purely in relation to that co-parenting enterprise, but you can't get away from, you know, all the lurve and relationship stuff too.

(I did decide to have DD2 )

My/our commitment is to the kids. Yes, it implies a permanent association between the two of us, but it's not about us.

but (speaking as a master of pregnancy accidents), you did choose to stay with dp once you found out you were pregnant

I did the same with dp but did give him the option to leave (as neither of us, at that point, had wanted children). He opted to stay, I opted to stick with him and for me, that was the biggest committment I made.

Not that I think you should get married MI . Each to our own and all that.

Interesting (but then you always are)

I see my marrieage, as well as my co-parenting along similar lines I suppose, and ongoing social contract. It has definatly changed, and matured over the years. I suppose the difference is that I can't imagine life without him. Actiually given his illnesses I do too much of that [pissed off with self emoticon needed]

Hmm, well, one day DP's madly romantic suggestions along the lines of 'so d'you want to marry me then' might wear me down