Moved in with OH but different status causing major problems

[dram10dram]

Hi,

I am divorced (8 years) and mum of two twin boys (aged 13.5). We've lived on our own for all of this time. 3.5 years ago I met a local man and we got on very well, he is single (aged 45), never married and no children. I am 46 and life has always been a struggle. During my time living alone I have worked part-time and completed a degree over 6 years, as well as bringing up the boys on my own.

We moved in with my partner last September but there have been major difficulties ever since. He is fairly wealthy (owns his place, and now semi retired, he works off-shore, and has been intending to knock this house down and rebuild another) whilst I have been quite poor. I had to tell him that moving in with him would be financially difficult as I would lose my top up benefits and would only have my child benefit and my wages to survive on. This was all new to him as he has had no idea of parenting, finances and benefits. He said that he would help me and we could open up a joint account; I'd pay my wages in (£450 per month) and he'd put in £500 per month. Well, that hasn't happened. For the first 2 months he never mentioned it, then I was made redundant so I had to prompt him. He's put money into an account but I can't access it as he is now working away again. This is just part of it.

It is very difficult living in a house with two different financial statuses; if we go shopping he may buy something but I can't. He has nice cars, I've had to change mine because I can't afford to run it. He has told me that he intends to leave his property to his nephews, which I fully understand, but I've told him I can't help him build a house as it would be very difficult investing labour and emotion to somewhere that wasn't going to be mine or my children's home. We have no long term say. All of our belongings are still in boxes, we have no pictures up, but he just won't talk about it.

I've told him how unhappy I am, that this doesn't feel like home and asked him to think about how we can overcome this and move forward. But he never gets back to me and when asked he just says he doesn't know how he feels or he hasn't thought about it. By his own admission, he is not pro-active and believes things just happen, so I can't see any change afoot.

On the other hand, he is brilliant with my boys and we get on really well as friends. Am I expecting too much, is there something wrong with me?

xxx

I really think the differing financial status is a red herring.

You have a differing relationship status. You think you are in a loving, committed, long term relationship with someone who loves you, and sees you all as his family.

He thinks his girlfriend has moved in with her kids, and her stuff, and that's it. No further thought required: and he doesn't care much beyond that.

Your differing views of your relationship will have a serious impact on your financial welfare.

So while I think the talk of night shifts slightly derails matters - I do think you need to return to independence and your own income, however that is achieved. Because this relationship is going nowhere.

I'd like to add to Tulipbulbs' thoughts on offshore workers: it's tough work, and I think the people who do it are rarely naive.

Twinklestein I'm not talking nonsense, simply pointing out that I, and a lot of other women, wouldn't feel very good about ourselves in this situation. What I find strange about the OP is that she doesn't seem to see this as a temporary situation, but a more or less long term one, as if she has somehow resigned herself in advance to it.

I really don't think it is this man's fault. Commitment, including shared finances, surely comes after a while living together, not suddenly lurched into after 2 months. Its far too much to ask of someone. I cannot see what he is getting out of it really - suddenly being asked to support an entire family of 3. I think he is doing plenty in providing them with free accommodation, and paying the bills. Is it possible he didn't really understand that he was expected to provide for a family of 3 for the foreseeable future when the OP moved in, as she didn't discuss this aspect of it with him?

OP, from what you say, it sounds as though you vaguely drift through life, wondering why you got into these situations, and finding "life a struggle" but never thinking to find full time paid employment as a way out of it. What you say is so full of excuses, it makes me wonder if finding a man to support you is something you almost equate with a career:

We moved in together as that is what we both wanted, for quite a while. He wasn't aware of my financial support, why should he be, he has no children. When I told him, he said he would help support me and the boys, I never asked him to and I've never expected him to. He made the offer and that is what made me think that I could afford to live with him. I thought it through long and hard as I knew it mean giving up some form of independence. For what ever reasons, that hasn't worked out according to plan.

My degree is in psychology, this does not give me a professional qualification but does open several doors. I haven't applied for any pub jobs (not sure where that post came from) but jobs in mental health and these often include overnight stays, as I said from 10pm to 8am. I can't yet work those hours because of the boys. As stated in my link above, children under the age of 16 shouldn't be left alone overnight. My boys are 13.5, so not nearly 15.

Why wouldn't you apply for pub jobs, or indeed anything at all? You probably won't walk into a job in your field, like most graduates, but need something on your cv that shows commitment to keeping working. Like other posters, I really don't see why your teenage children would prefer to be living in uncertain poverty in someone else's house, to having a mother working some nights. But most people start out their careers doing jobs that don't pay well and aren't that great, then move onwards and upwards. In 4 or 5 years time will you be in your fifties, with your children leaving home, and trying to enter the jobs market?

It's not just a case of moving into a rural area and liking it. I've lived rurally since I was 17, my boys interests are farming and the like, one attends an agricultural school so the move to a city would be set back for them.

Tough. Lots of people have to move. Lots of people would love to live in the countryside, but job commitments and money mean they don't get to.

As I've said above, I am looking for work, hence my regular troll of the internet, papers etc and applying for at least one per day.

But then you say you can't do them because it means working nights.

When I moved in I thought he was going to build his new house quite soon, so it made sense to remain packed. I now realise that is not going to happen in the immediate future. The bungalow we live in is tiny, there is no space to get our stuff out.

This is simply idiotic. How long do you think it even takes to get detailed planning permission? Its easy enough to check on the internet if its in place. I would say 6 - 9 months. Then theres the build - another year at least, from start to finish. And that's getting started straight away.

Sadly, there are also those that seem to just want have a go personally, mainly by being selective about what they chose and taking it out of context or manipulating it. Or by making assumptions. Each to there own.

Indeed. I'm afraid what does stand out is that you have no means of supporting yourself, never mind your children. And you seem to lack the desire to change that.

Even the courts agree now that women with school age children should support themselves: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11429864/Divorced-wife-told-to-get-a-job-and-stop-living-off-her-ex.html

This is what the judge said in that case:

"Judge Lynn Roberts last year agreed that there was no good reason why Mrs Wright had not done a stroke of paid work in the six years since the divorce...The judge criticised her for being "evasive on the subject of her own earning capacity"...."The world of work has innumerable possibilities these day...vast numbers of women with children just get on with it and Mrs Wright should have done as well," the judge said."

"I do not think the children will suffer if Mrs Wright has to work, and indeed a working mother at this stage of their lives may well provide them with a good role model."

"It is possible to find work that fits in with childcare responsibilities. I reject her other reasons relating to responsibilities for animals, or trees, or housekeeping."

I didn't say you were talking nonsense Chandler that was Ouchbloodyyouch

Very good post, Chandler. It's not an easy read, it's hard-hitting, but it's much kinder than posting platitudes that are being lapped up. Nobody is posting to 'have a go'. I shudder when I see how vulnerable some women make themselves - and elect those choices for their children too.

Very good post Chandler but I expect the OP will ignore it as she's only replying to the bits she wants to and dismissing everything else out of hand. She made up her mind to move in with this man without any clear plan for supporting herself and her two DC (neither of whom are this man's responsibility), and she pooh-poohs any ideas that don't fit with her unrealistic life plan.

OP you don't generally just walk into your ideal job with a brand new degree under your belt, let alone the hours you want to work and in living in the rural area of your choice. Sod your son's farming ambitions, you need to put food on the table right now! You're not prepared to compromise on anything, but you're now without an income, have no way to support your two DC, and at the mercy of a man who could decide at any time 'Sod this for a game of soldiers, I didn't realise I'd be supporting all three of you' and ask you to move out of his house.

If he's used to being away for long periods of time for his work his bills are going to shoot up astronomically with three of you living there permanently, plus he's going to be buying all the groceries and household needs, including everyone's toilettries and personal items. Does he realise that until you get another job (hopefully a better paid one that the last job), that this is the situation? That he has suddenly become de facto 'dad' and bread winner for four people????

Very much agree with TheChandler. I guess she most be a troll or div too.

One point that I have not covered and does need highlighting is the following:

'He made the offer and that is what made me think that I could afford to live with him. I thought it through long and hard as I knew it mean giving up some form of independence. For what ever reasons, that hasn't worked out according to plan.'

The OP is not independent in the true sense of the word. She was dependent on benefits i.e. the state. If she thinks a man's capricious then the OP's in for a shock with the state.

When her kids reach 16 (currently) or if the current tax credit system get a long due gutting, she'll find herself less 'independent', which is why the OP, and people in similar situations, need to think long and hard what to do for an income. I'm seeing the fall out from tax credits now - people who have spent the last 10 years doing 16h and getting their income topped up by tax credits. Kids reach 16 - poof! - down to job seekers.

Messing around and wanting to stay rural without being able to earn a living wage in a rural setting is nuts. I know, I come from a rural area, maybe even the same area as the OP - north North Yorks - lots of oil workers around so I do know the type. Doing a Psychology degree was a waste of time. When you are over 30 and have kids, you cannot waste time and money doing degrees that will not help your future earning potential.

End of the day, you have to fit your work to suit where you live, or move where your work is. There is no real choice - unless you are running your own business.

It seems like some have posted to 'have a go' only those posters know their motivation so I think it unwise to say they are not.

I think the OP has been met harshly on this thread, when she has been doing the best she can.

Vipers.

You said in an earlier post Op that he likes things to 'just happen'. Well why don't you just get on with making yourself at home.

Get in contact with him (i assume he's off shore but surely they have mobile phones or emails) tell him (yes TELL him) that you are skint and he needs to get some money in the account. Then get yourself unpacked. If its a small place chuck out whatever crap you want. Get the boys room organised, put pictures up on the wall, clear out space in his cupboard for your stuff and act as if its your home. Go mad and paint the place if you want.

Why are you sitting about waiting for permission to do this, he WANTED you to move in, you are living together as partners.

I wouldn't be pleased at the whole leaving the house to nephews either, especially if the long term plan is to live there with him for the rest of your life. Fuck that, if you are a couple your assets should be joint. Sure, provision should be made so he wouldn't lose out if you split up but you should at least set out with the plan of spending the rest of your lives together.

If he doesn't like it then that tells you all you need to know and that you have made a mistake and should be thinking about moving out.

Does anybody bother to read threads anymore? Even just the OP's posts would have answered your questions, Timeto. OP is in a very untenable position; bad enough when she is about to lose her job - much moreso that she has two children to support.

Me too, Kvetch, I think it's thigh-rubbing pleasure at having bumped the thread (for no reason) and given it a good stir secure in the knowledge that they are not facing what the OP is.

It's good that you are questioning!
It might lead you to your heart.

juneau makes a very good point about bills shooting up when your DP is used to being non resident for months at a time.

Leaving aside your relationship a moment, it seems that moving in with him has made both of you worse off financially. The state views you as a family entity, so you lost your topup benefits. Redundancy followed, which was the icing on the cake. He thinks moving his girlfriend in is neither here nor there. He hasn't really thought about it. But three extra people, with no income, when he's used to near zero domestic expenses for X months of the year - that will focus his mind.

Would your small financial pot help you pay advance rent anywhere? Landlords would look kindly on that. Can you check what you'd be able to claim if you moved out? And yes, obviously, widen the job search, in every sense of the word.

I totally agree with you on that one here about the tax credits. Its probably a bit of a derailment and should perhaps be a thread in its own right but if you are in a position where you can 'get by' on a 16 hour per week job with tax credits top ups then it is going to be a huge shock when your child leave full time education at 19.
It wouldn't be jobseekers unless you lost your job though just a massive drop in income.
I am one who gets such top ups but with a plan to get rid of those by increasing my income as my children become more independent as I do not want to be in that position of a reduced income.
I am sure as OPs children grow older she will take the opportunity to improve her lot but ideally needs to get a plan in place to become entirely self sufficient sooner rather than later.

Well the OP is there now. She cannot magic a place up for herself and who would rent to her with no income?

The OH has not asked her to leave. She lives there rent and Bill free, I presume. That is worth something.

She just has to find a new job before her savings run out. This is the first priority I would imagine.

Next would be to have a discussion regarding how they want to organise finances as a couple. He has promised to put money in a joint account - just has been lax about this. So a reminder is due.

I would not invest in his building project if I were her. If she project managed it for him, while he is away, perhaps he could pay her for this.

Once she has found a job she can afford to reevaluate moving out. If before I think OP would effectively be homeless!

People do find themselves in these situations, living together without the legal protection of marriage is a minefield. Even with marriage, with no property in the woman's name, they are not guaranteed to gain any assets should they split.

I'm leaving the thread now, I've got what I want out of it thank you.

If there is land with the small holding perhaps they could 'garden grab' and leave the bungalow to the nephews and joint own the new build. She could invest then.

X post.

if you are a couple your assets should be joint.?

"Hello mumsnet, I am a 45 year old woman who has never married and have no children . My very lovely boyfriend has just moved in along with his two teenage boys.
I own the house and pay all the bills.
He's unemployed.

Should I make all assets Joint?"

REALLY??? What do you think the consensus would be ?

Sorry but I agree with the Chandler and hereandtherex , also the bit about doing a degree in psychology. WHy did you choose this OP? So much effort and you must have known the (lack of) employment opportunities at the end of it.

(I speak as someone with a Psychology degree , by the way )

jasper this is what committed couples tend to do, make assets joint - usually involves marriage though. Part of traditional marriage vows. Also in the eyes of the Benefit office live in partners support each other.

Or would you go down the pre-nup route?

Anyway the OP has moved in without securing a solid financial commitment. She got a verbal agreement but it has only partway materialised.

All is not lost yet though. You can berate the OP all you want but positive steps can be made. If she pulls you them off she might even be better off at the end of this. She was relying on State Benefits before - which is no sure thing in this day and age.

If the OH really does love her he might support her through this redundancy, build the new house on some of the small hiding land (garden grabbing) which she can invest in as the new house could be jointly owned and leave the bungalow to nephews. This depends on how committed he is. He could do less and support her until she gets a full time job and she can build her own portfolio of investments up - she does not have to rent or buy a property.

^holding. Typo.

I think different couples do things differently. The issue for me here is that this couple don't appear to be in any sort of agreement or even disagreement.

If he came out and said I don't wish to share anything ...she'd know where she stood. She might have made a very different decision about moving in.

I'm a complete advocate for women being independant and also working but it's not that simple. I think all women whether married or single or in a partnership should be financially independant. That independence could mean a respected agreement in the case of any SAHP that one parent is employed but the other parent isn't financially disadvantaged. It could mean working. Not many single parents meet up with financially compatible men because the very nature of being a single parent restricts career opportunities. I have no childcare that isn't paid for. Tbh DDs too old for paid childcare but too young to to be home alone for long in my case. I can't do overnight and long days without calling in huge favours for example so I am restricted in my options. Men often aren't.

A committed relationship means coming to an agreement. They had...he hasn't stood by it. Whether any of us think it was a fair agreement is moot. He needs to be honest in his intentions

Except Jasper, the OP herself at no time has said that she wants the assets to be joint, so why pick on her for that.

Twinklestein I didn't say you were talking nonsense Chandler that was Ouchbloodyyouch

Ooops!

I certainly didn't post this to upset the OP, or gloat. I just think for the OP its probably going to be better for her in the long run if she pulls her head out of the sand and takes more responsibility for her own life (and that of her children). She is still young enough to take steps to set up a bit of a future for herself. I posted the words of the judge because I'm guessing he will have seen more than a few women in this situation. The OP cannot base a future on moving from man to man.

I also don't buy into this victimhood and blaming the man. Of course theres no requirement for him to have a joint account. Of course he doesn't have to take responsibility for a family of 3 who have just moved in with him, if he doesn't want to. If there was a long term relationship here, where both parties had pulled their weight and then the misfortune of redundancy struck, I would say it should be quite different.

He actually sounds quite kind, in fact both him and the OP are probably lovely people, but I'd be absolutely mortified if I moved in with a man and then had no money and expected him to financially provide totally for me and my whole family. And I do think the OP sounds quite mortified actually and as if she feels very awkward - hence the not unpacking. It must be a horrible situation.

Its all very unfortunate, but most people who have an intention to work view unemployment as a temporary situation, and tend to take steps to maximise their chances of working. Such as moving to a city or large town.

Living in the country and not having to work for a living is a dream for many but often remains just that.

I'd forget about building the new house until the situation is more settled - its going to take ages anyway and won't solve the immediate problems.

It depends how rural OP is though. She could commute. At the moment she is living as cheaply as she could hope to, accommodation wise. Getting alternative accommodation would cost. In any case she would have to secure employment first, I would have thought. Added to this it sounds like the OP wants to live with her partner and is mainly unhappy about being financially very unequal.