The crying and the begging....

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Sorry can't link to previous posts but DH moved out a month ago today. After years of EA I finally saw the light. He wanted it to be temporary and I thought there was a slim chance of that.

He was distraught when he left, crying, pleading. It was torture seeing him like that.

He was like it the first two weeks even in front of the DC. Then he seemed to get better. Tonight he was much worse. Holding onto ME at the front door and crying. He even asked if he could take my jumper with him as it smelled of me and he could take it to bed with him.

I'm not sure if he's genuinely upset or if this is all a big act. He's seeing a counsellor who keeps telling him our marriage is fixable. I don't think this is helping. He's lost a lot of weight in the month, he looks ill and exhausted and I am so sad.

I don't know how to help him deal with this. The only thing he wants is for me to tell him to come back and I just can't do that.

Abuse is about control. If he can't exert control by assaulting and insulting you, he'll try another method. He has not made a personality transformation in the space of a few weeks. He's hoping you're lonely and desperate and that he can manipulate you. Please keep him out of your home as a matter of principle. Set up a more sensible contact schedule with the children so that he is not hanging around all the time. Avoid conversations in favour of short, to the point text message.

And please get help regarding the abuse. Many recommend the Freedom Programme and you may benefit from counselling.

You poor love. He's just having a self indulgent tantrum in the hope that you will come back and allow him to continue to abuse you, that's all.

You know this. You know that it's all manipulation and insincerity. But it's hard to watch him, I'm sure.

You don't need to listen to or put up with any of it though - can you get someone else to be there when he comes to see the children? It's just another facet of his abuse - he's still inflicting his emotional shit on you and making you feel bad, just in a different way from before, but it's still the same old, same old and you're the one who ends up feeling crap. Do you think HE feels crap? No he doesn't.

STOP feeling guilty. You have NOTHING to reproach yourself for. STOP allowing this man to manipulate your emotions and if you can avoid seeing him for a bit then do that.

NEVER go to counselling with him again (although I see you know that) and never let him get to you with all this nonsense - it's what he wants more than anything, to know that he can still get to you and control you with it. NEVER comfort him for any of his shit - he knew what he was doing, of course he did! - he just doesn't like that someone else now knows what he did. He's not ashamed of doing it, he's just ashamed that someone else has seen him for what he is.

I'm being heavy handed here - but take note of it all because it's all going to help you in the long run - just now you're still raw and vulnerable, but you need to start growing (or knitting if necessary!) a rhino hide to stop that bastard getting to you.

and

If he would just stop being so upset I would be absolutely fine.

But the whole point of splitting is so that your happiness is not dependent on his.

At best all this weeping and wailing is self-pity. I refuse to believe someone who has done the stuff to you that you've described in this thread has miraculously become so empathetic that he now realises how he has crushed your spirit and disrespected your body and is overcome with remorse. This entire act would stop as soon as you took him back, because its aim is to manipulate you through fear, obligation and guilt. Just like everything he's done to you over the years.

You are (over)facilitating contact with the children because it makes him happy. That is not your concern. The children are. The daily contact gives him broad scope to continue his manipulation of you. Given he's the only beneficiary, I would stop it or tell him it takes place outside the house.

His counsellor, btw, has absolutely no right to decide if the marriage is fixable. If this is a reputable counsellor I would doubt very much that he/she did say this.

i want to be allowed to be happy.

The only person's permission you need is you. He is never going to allow you to be happy because you being happy makes him unhappy. This is not his choice, nor his decision.

You comforted him because he was upset when he realised he had raped you?

He's emotionally abusive to your kids, do you really think that daily contact which clearly perpetuates the abuse (crying and wailing in front of them) is in their interests? It's not, and it's not in yours, so whose is it? Clue : it's still all revolving around him.

You're not responsible for helping him, comforting him or improving him. You need to detach and reduce the amount of time he gets to continue to abuse you and the children.

Surely you know that thiscryig and begging, and the suicide threats, are just forms of that emotional abuse that gave you good cause to end it?

He is an abusive rapist. Why would you even have a man that you knew to be an abusive rapist in your house, let alone your life?

This is him convincing himself its not his fault and therefore not needing to take responsibility for his actions.

I think you need to agree that he doesn't come every day top see the children - its him not letting you or the children get on with their lives.

Now this morning I have had texts asking if we can talk. And the thing is I don't want to talk. That means he will cry and cry and I hate it.

I don't think he's changed. And even if he has I don't want to be with him. I spent 23 years trying to make him happy. I want to just be on my own.

Then don't talk to him

he's not the boss of you

'You are an abusive rapist. If you want to talk about me making a report to the police about your rape and sticking your fingers in me when I was asleep, then yes we can talk. Anything else - no'.

and tell him the only texts you will be responding to are ones to arrange access with the dc....out of your home

You said in a previous post that your lovely children have blossomed since his departure. That tells you everything you need to know.

I remember your other thread and well done for finding the strength to instigate a split.

The worse thing at the moment is your children are still witnessing his abuse - because he is crying, pleading in front of them. Please tell him that he cannot continue to see them until he has stopped doing this.

I am absolutely flabbergasted as to how he can say he has changed when he is doing this I front of them?! You are so blind to it all that I'm not sure you realise how damaging this behaviour is for the children.

Also please watch out for mr nasty. He will almost certainly appear when his current approach wears off.

It is good for children to have clear consistent rules regarding contact. Has he got somewhere to take them? Seeing them everyday is a bit much ( though I know it's your decision)

It's best that you both come up with a sensible contact plan, not at your house (due to the EA), because Emotional abusers rarely just stop. It's possible that he will continue to torment you for a long time to come, during hand overs etc.

Please don't feel sorry for him. He has put you through so much, some of his behaviour was illegal and a woman should never feel unsafe in her own bed.

He's a nasty piece of work. He always will be. He will do it to someone else next. It's who he is.

Stay strong & stay away.

How will you know he will 'cry and cry' if you're not there to see it? The advantage of completely dropping contact except for essentials is that he's 'out of sight out of mind'. Ignore the texts, delete,....

So..... it's a lovely day where I am - don't know about where you are. Forgetting all about this person who is no longer part of your life, what are you going to do with yourself today that is going to make you appreciate your freedom and independence?

Toast he only wants you now, because he can't have you. Like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

You are the better person for having even an ounce of compassion for that vile man. Reading your posts is disturbing.

You have zero responsibility for helping him cope with being accountable for years of abuse. Best you can say is "just deal with it". He is an adult. I hope you can stay strong.

You've had texts asking if you can talk? Quick answer: "no".
No other answer required.

Stay strong. :)

I am so impressed by you Toast, I think you are doing amazingly well. Will echo what others have said, dont wait for him to allow you to be happy. He never will. Ever. But you can allow yourself.
It is hard to stop trying to please the abuser, but as he is moved out you can stop seeing him. The kids can see him elsewhere and you dont need to have much contact at all.
That you had to comfort him because he realised he raped you struck a chord. Except mine was furious in addition and soon enough it got turned round to how could anyone say such a thing about him. So please take note from what others have said too, all this may soon enough turn to viciousness.
Good luck, you have the whole rest of your life Ahead of you! Free from abuse. It is a revelation for me still two years down the line. The relief and joy sometimes just jumps on me still. It is worth court and hassle and weird texts and emails, because finally he is not here in the evening nor is he here in the morning and I can live my life properly. So hang in there, detach and detach some more!

You need to stop contact!

I know you have children, but you need to work out the way to minimise how much you see or hear from him at hand over, and only receive texts/email etc. about them and contact.

Can you get a separate PAYG mobile just for texts about contact? You can even start by getting someone to help monitor it.

Ideally make hand overs at the gate. So watch out for him, and get the children out an to him before he can step on your property.

I'd be tempted if he starts crying to say something like, "Oh dear kids looks like Daddy isn't able to see you today."

He is a horrible abusive little man. Do not minimise what he did to you!

BTW he wouldn't have to be so nasty for you to say "Sorry but its over" you don't need an excuse to get out. But he has given you plenty of reasons.

You're going to have to toughen up emotionally. < voice of bitter experience>. You've got spot on, great advice on this thread. Time to look after your emotional needs and those of your children.
Abusers don't change, they just change tactics. If you let him back he'll be the same as before, with the added knowledge that he manipulated his way back. Victory for him.
Abusers use their counselling as another way to abuse and exert control. You have to mentally step out of his control. Minimising contact would go a long way to doing that.
I speak as someone a step or two further down the road from you. They're tenacious fuckers, like insecticide resistant headlice.

He doesn't cry in front of the children anymore. Sorry I should have made that clear. I told him that had to stop.

At the moment he comes round most nights to see them before bed. Which is annoying because he gets here bang on bedtime and then they can't get to sleep. At that time he can't take them out anywhere and he won't come any earlier. My problem is more when they are asleep he hovers. Obviously wanting me to chat and all I want to do is put my pjs on, eat chocolate and watch crap tv!!

He takes them out at weekends and has had them overnight (I went away) but I don't trust him with them. Whether he means to or not he makes them uneasy.

I get that he has nothing else in his life, just work and us. He misses his home that he spent years working on, this is a man who likes his material comforts his way.

He has asked me to move out so he can live here with them is I "can't cope". I can cope but that sends me into a blind panic that he is just waiting for me to somehow mess up.

The DC are fine, I've checked with their teachers, school counsellors and the like. And I can just tell they are, they look all happy and sparkly. They sleep and eat well. I worry 24/7 if I did the right thing. I think I did.

I agree - no talking and no more setting foot over your threshold. And he doesn't need to see them every day. Every other weekend and one night in the week is plenty. Time to lay down some ground rules.

It isn't your fault he has no friends and you don't need his permission to be happy.

Toast. You need to stop this coming over every night nonsense.

He has them every other weekend at his, and one evening the other week.

You are playing into his hands by letting him walk over you.

He doesn't respect you and is just looking for ways to chip away at you.

Draw a line. Stop this. Make concrete EOW overnight arrangements and take your life back.

There is no reason for him to come over every night. You're separated, he has to adapt, the children have to adapt and part of that process means him setting up his own home and them sharing that home with him on an agreed schedule. If he is waiting for the financial settlement from the divorce before he can afford to set up a suitable home, there has to be compromise. But that still doesn't mean him coming into your home if he is going to subject you to more emotional abuse.

He doesn't have somewhere to live, he is at his dad's. So it isn't possible for the DC to stay there.

He will have them overnight next week (I will go away for the night). But I don't like him being on his own here with them, rooting through my stuff. That isn't me being controlling, it's because I'm scared of what he might say to them. He tried to persuade my eldest to go live with him because he's "lonely". It made no practical sense but upset her a lot. For years I have managed the utter shit he sometimes says, by deflecting or telling the DC the truth. But I can't do that if I'm not here.

Honestly, this daily contact is bad for the children and you are only doing it to appease him. Stop! Just stop. Once or twice a week, he picks them up from school or at the door, he brings them back to the door then goes. If he refuses to do that then contact stops.

He doesn't want to sell the house. He wants me to give it enough time for him to fix it so he can come back. So for now he lets himself in whenever he wants.