Thoughts on this fuck buddy?

[DarwinianLoser]

I have a work-colleague FB that I've been sleeping with for a few weeks now (once a week). On one hand he obeys the fuck-buddy 'rules' with regard to intimacy (no romantic texts, sometimes will go for days without contact, says I can have sex with other people, etc) yet on the other hand he does the following: holds my hand - fingers entwined (always initiated by him), chivalrous acts like holding doors open, paying for all drinks and meals, paying me compliments, helping me with things, regular texts.

I'm confused by these mixed-signals, and - I confess - I'm new to this FB lark.

What on earth is the deal here?

I don't think there are any mixed signals. A man paying for everything is a common feature of a FB/ FWB relationship. He's just behaving politely as a friend would do. Holding hands is just physical contact; like a cuddle - some people like that, some people don't.

The golden rule with relationships is "if you have to ask the question, you already know the answer". In other words, if you need to ask someone "do you love me" or "do you want to be in a relationship with me" the answer will be no. If he wanted to be in a relationship with you, he would be.

Fairlylea's experience is instructive. He then said (lovely line) "I like you as a friend but that's all but the sex is good". This is fair enough and very honest. There's nothing wrong with liking someone and persisting in a sexual relationship if you think they are fine with it.

Your options are:

1. Say nothing & carry on - but it doesn't sound like you are going to manage it emotionally.
2. End it. Tell him it's not working for you and just stop. How much you tell him about why it's not working is up to you - you could hint at your fear you will develop feelings for him.
3. Try to modify the way you are interacting. Tell him that you fear that you may develop feelings for him and you'd like to be clear about how he sees it. See what he says. You could say that you'd prefer it if he didn't act in ways you see as "boyfriend-y" and carry on, see how you go.

For the most part FWB/FB relationships are a car crash waiting to happen, because one person (most often the woman) develops emotional involvement.

You can still like a fuckbuddy and show them physical affection, right ?

Or is it meant to be only genital touching, no talking and he fucks right off afterwards ?

Because I would define that as something else entirely

For me he did things like texting a lot, letting off steam to me about things at work, coming round after work with a curry and watching a film with me and snuggling on the sofa and then leaving (no sex sometimes, I think that is partly what confused me), having "dates" - evenings by the sea, eating doughnuts and talking etc. All those " couple" type things... as well as inviting me along to places his friends would be and holding hands with me there. So unless I was an idiot and he was just treating me like a good friend there were some signals I took to mean more than they did.

Personally I think fb relationships are a bit of a car crash. I can understand one night stands more - although that's not something I would do. I think if you have sexual feelings for a friend why not just date and see what happens?

But maybe it's just because my own experience was shit....!!

I agree, it's a minefield...a field day for a mind-fuck

You can still like a fuckbuddy and show them physical affection, right ?

Of course

Or is it meant to be only genital touching, no talking and he fucks right off afterwards ?

Well it depends on the person (here the OP) and what they want (or can cope with). If OP just wants (or can only emotionally manage) with pure sex with none of what she describes as "mixed messages" (I don't agree they are mixed messages but so what?) then she should ask for it.

The problem here seems to be her perception of what she considers to be "boyfriendy" type mixed messages. If that disturbs her emotional equilibrium in this set up, then it maybe she wants them off the table.

don't think Fuckbuddying (Fucking buddies ? what's the correct term...?) is for me

So unless I was an idiot and he was just treating me like a good friend there were some signals I took to mean more than they did.

What fairylea said is kind of my point anyfucker. People see different actions differently. One person's casual affection may be another's sign of emotional involvement.

What you are describing as "couple" type things Fairlea are really just friend type things from one point of view. Add in the sex and its FWB. Women I think (me included) have a tendency to over analyse and to read more than is there. A woman may see all that stuff as signals of more than just sex, but you are really talking about sex + friendship (you don't expect the FB to treat you badly) and those are not signals of anything more than that.

Snuggling on the sofa, holding hands, chatting about work life etc are equally as a compatible with a friendship + sex or casual dating. It's easy to misread and think stuff means more than it does when you want it too.

Proper couple type things are - being fully involved in each others lives; meeting friends and family and being introduced as a gf; declarations of love etc.

I don't think fuckbuddying is for 99.9% of the female population to be honest anyfucker.

It works best for men and for women who genuinely don't give a shit about the guy. But even then we are biologically designed to bond with people we have sex with. It's how we are made so for women successful Fuckbuddying is a constant fight against evolution, genetics and hormones.

Car crash.

if he actively spells it out that you can sleep with others, he doesn't want more than FB or as someone said, a casual relationship.

If he was interested in open relationship, he'd also have asked you, OP, as he didn't then again he sees it as casual.

Can't see what his habitual manners have to do with 'boyfriend-y'. He opens the doors or pay for rdinks etc as he is traditional and is used to it with all women, and he is tactile by nature so he holds hands - that's not emotional or committed, it just what makes him feel like he's not a user and prefers to treat any woman politely and with care so that HE doesn't feel bad or crass or whatever.
It's just a little bit chauvinistic imo when a man think he must do some care and affection or else a decent woman won't be interested in sex, but he is probably of older generation, that's what women in the past expected - it's very modern to just want to have sex with no expectation whatsoever of any 'embellishments'.
And generally he may be just a nice tactile guy but without any deep feelings or desire to commit.

I should add that I agree that the majority of women would struggle with FB (modern women or not) because if they like the sex due to bonding hormones, but it can work if she has a high sex drive and sees the guy as a nice body mainly and they don't have much in common in any other aspect, and that's fine for women who don't want a relationship for whatever reason. Librarian and sexy builder kind of thing .

When she also respects/likes the guy, it's almost impossible not to want more. Working together is definitely not an ideal situation for fbs!

*due to bonding hormones they are likely to feel some neediness or start liking him emotionally

I don't think it's a 'chauvinistic point' to make the observation that the OP appears to want strictly no strings 'F' while the buddy in question is clearly enjoying a semi-traditional role including intimacy, courtesy, etc. As I said originally, they're both getting what they want out of the arrangement and, if there's no emotional connection or feelings involved, it shouldn't be surprising if they don't want exactly the same thing.

All that is required OP is that you are comfortable with his behaviour. If not, move onto the next FB. No loss.

Okay everyone, I've had a long think about what is making me uncomfortable and it is this:

It unnerves me how he can change from one extreme to another. How he can be all cuddly and hand-holdy one minute and then ignore me for days. It feels almost-cruel. If I understood why he switched like this, I would get over it.

Paying for dinner, pretending to be a boyfriend. ... there's a market for it.

Why though? My FB knows he's going to get sex so why does he still add all the flowery borderline-romance?

have more than one so you're not becoming overly bonded with one person

Yep. I'm working on that.

Of course you don't generally have strong feelings for people you can stay casual with

How do people in 'casual relationships' generally feel toward each other?

I think your FB is in the same category as me

You think he wants a relationship? How so? He's hot and cold with me.

Wow Fairylea those are some pretty fucked-up signals he was sending. Do you think he enjoyed the mind-fuck? Got off on it?

If that disturbs her emotional equilibrium in this set up

You nailed it. I enjoy his behaviour (it's flattering) but I find it hard to reconcile with the view that we're just friends fucking.

Snuggling on the sofa, holding hands, chatting about work life etc are equally as a compatible with a friendship

I don't snuggle or hand-hold with my other friends.

beaglesaresweet your post has produced a kind-of lightbulb moment for me. You reckon he does all this 'sweet' stuff because it makes HIM feel better about the untraditional setup of fuckbuddyship?

If you don't like how it's going, if the lines are getting blurred, if there's anything you're not sure of, just move on. That's the advantage of FBs surely? No emotional ties. No obligations. Totally disposable when they've served their purpose.

Well, it sounds like your expectations are just set differently.

I must say, mine would be more in line with his. This would have suited me down to the ground in my single days. I expect to be treated courteously by men I am shagging. I would expect a nice text the morning after.

You may prefer he just shagged you and left, OR that he committed to a proper monogamous relationship with you - if that's the case maybe just tell him how you want to be treated and if he can't oblige it might be time to leave it.

I don't snuggle or hand-hold with my other friends

Yes but you aren't having SEX with them are you. Snuggling and hand holding is just a physical extension of sex, part of physical affection. He may just like how it feels physically.

I think for some odd reason you have a perception of a FB relationship as entirely cold - like you meet up have sex and part. Some people may do that but that's icy cold for most people. Most guys would think (probably rightly) that a woman wouldn't put up with something that extreme even where the deal is FWB or FB.

Both of those phrases feature the word friend and buddy respectively. You just don't seem to be registering that part of it.

It's not "sweet" stuff. You still seem to be putting emphasis on this that is unwarranted. It's just normal behaviour. "Sweet" stuff would be driving 4 hours to collect your mother because she was stuck in an airport and it was upsetting you. "Sweet stuff" is spending weeks arranging a surprise valentine's day trip to Paris. "Sweet stuff" is telling you how much he loves you and why.

It's perfectly normal to have a casual relationship (by which I mean no commitment, no expectation of monogamy and no feeling of love) accompanied by having dinner before hand or drinks or a date. It is no big deal.

You are seeing it as "flowery borderline romance" but that's just your perception. It is just as compatible with social behaviour in a casual sexual set up.

Maybe men also like the 'flowery borderline romance' stuff and not just the sex. Maybe he thinks you will like it and the sex will be better.
You seem to expect him to just turn up, shag you with no view on your enjoyment and leave.

It's perfectly possible that he is enjoying having you as a 'girlfriend lite' - he can enjoy coupley time when he's in the mood but doesn't have to think about you when he isn't. FWB relationships come in all sorts of shades of grey and if you can't understand that then you are probably best off avoiding them (this isn't a dig, I steer clear of them myself for the same reason).

Wow Fairylea those are some pretty fucked-up signals he was sending. Do you think he enjoyed the mind-fuck? Got off on it?

I don't agree they were fucked up signals in Fairylea's case.

If a man is telling you he is not interested in commitment and is happy for you to sleep with other people and for him to too, that is the only signal you need.

Fucked-up signals would be saying we have a FWB relationship and then the following day discussing when you were going to get engaged.

Treating someone nicely who you happen to be sleeping with does not mean that you love them or want anything more than that or a commitment. Politeness is not the same as signal of emotional involvement or interest. How can you not see this?

I agree Bonfire, this why I am a bit confused about FuckBuddies only seeming to fulfil that role if they coldly march in, do the business and leave immediately afterwards.

I would treat someone with kindness and consideration if I were sharing body fluids with them, regardless of whether it's along term relationship or not.

These days I can't see myself enjoying sex if I didn't like the person, and enjoy their company outside of the sex. But I could easily have a casual relationship with someone who is not my primary confidant, so not the first person I call if I've had a bad day, whose texts might make me smile but without which I would feel completely fine, someone I like seeing once every couple of weeks for a hangout much like any other friend. That's what I mean by a casual relationship.
Once that person starts to be on your mind on a daily basis, you want to call them above all others, you miss them if you don't see them for a few days, you feel jealous at the thought of other people having sex with them, it's not casual any more.

Thanks everyone. This thread has been therapy for me. It has somewhat defucked my mind and helped me to understand my situation.

Politeness is not the same as signal of emotional involvement or interest. How can you not see this?

I guess I perceived hand-holding and being hell-bent on paying for everything as more than mere 'politeness'. This misconception stems from being a noob at this FB lark.

Once that person starts to be on your mind on a daily basis, you want to call them above all others, you miss them if you don't see them for a few days, you feel jealous at the thought of other people having sex with them, it's not casual any more.

Yup, I think I need to disengage. Not completely bin him but have a NC break for at least a week. Meanwhile, I'll line up another FB to occupy myself.

and being hell-bent on paying for everything

If he is "hell-bent" on paying, it's also possible that he may see this as his part of the transaction. Part of the FB deal.

But it's equally possible that it is just how he behaves on dates generally and sees it as "what men do".

Either way, it means nothing. I'm guessing this is not your normal dating experience (for men to insist on paying) hence you see it as unusual and as a sign of great interest. In some social circles, it is still the absolute norm.

I think another FB is the last thing you need. You sound like you can't deal with it. What's wrong with waiting until you are ready to meet someone you actually want a relationship with and who wants one with you?

BonfireofTheVanitiesss I like the physical contact and I like 'making an effort with myself' and being appreciated for that (sexy undies, nice dress, hair, etc). Very un-feminist I know.

How can it be a fuck buddy when you are actually going through the rituals of dating?