Thoughts on this fuck buddy?

[DarwinianLoser]

I have a work-colleague FB that I've been sleeping with for a few weeks now (once a week). On one hand he obeys the fuck-buddy 'rules' with regard to intimacy (no romantic texts, sometimes will go for days without contact, says I can have sex with other people, etc) yet on the other hand he does the following: holds my hand - fingers entwined (always initiated by him), chivalrous acts like holding doors open, paying for all drinks and meals, paying me compliments, helping me with things, regular texts.

I'm confused by these mixed-signals, and - I confess - I'm new to this FB lark.

What on earth is the deal here?

HelenaDove DH is older. FB is same age.

there is no emotional honesty in FB relationships

Is this always the case? Does it have to be this way?

Milllli I doubt I would leave DH. He is a very good father and I do genuinely care for him. But I'm not a robot. I have intimacy needs. I almost feel guilty for having them.

Interesting Bonfire. So is what you're talking about a case of:

"He does nice things to make himself feel better about the situation"

or a case of:

"He does nice things because he thinks I wouldn't fuck him otherwise"?

There are so many things going on. He could want a relationship and knows he can't so is blowing hot (cuddling) and cold (trying to deal with the situation). He is not in the same situation as you so there is always going to be an issue with this.

Why do you think he doesn't want a relationship? Also, you seem genuinely baffled as to why a man would want to be kind, cuddle, hold hands. Those things are about caring and intimacy. Normal, human things. Men get them too.

FWIW in my experience, it has always been the men wanting more, not me. Possibly because I knew that I didn't want a 'moving forward' type of relationship at that time and it turned out they thought that they could convince me, they would win me round. Because that is the lie they are sold. Women all crave love and security and a LTR. And men all want sex and an easy life. It is frequently the other way round.

I do also think moralising cow that I am that you can't sustain something where your DH doesn't want sex, you want it, he tells you you can't have it, you get it anyway, he turns a blind eye. Secrets and lies; they hurt people in the end.

have you discussed open marriage with your DH? Or does he expect you to go without sex for the rest of your life?
Yes and yes.

Well if this is an accurate reflection of the situation and you have had the conversation (and not just you interpreting his "blind eye" or other behaviour), then I think it's time for you to have another conversation.

I would suggest you tell him in advance you need to talk to him about your relationship and future (so he has a heads up that this is serious and matters). You find a time when you are lone and the kids are out/taken care of/at granny's wherever.

You tell him that you consider honesty and trust in a relationship is essential.

Tell him that you CANNOT forego sexual contact, intimacy and affection for the rest of your life and it is wrong and unreasonable of him to want that. Emphasise how important it is to you.

That both of you need to find a way forward otherwise you are frightened that you will be driven to leave.

That your priority is your children, your home and your marriage. That you would never humiliate him publicly but that you need sexual contact.

You honestly can't go on like this Darwinian - because sooner or later you'll end up in a situation that is totally out of your control. Eg. you'll fuck someone who turns out to be married with a W who discovers your existence and tears your whole life down. You'll fuck some young buck who falls in love and gets obsessed and starts stalking you and your family etc etc etc. The risks here are very high.

Do you really really really want to spend the next 5/10/20/30 - hell even 40 years - in a relationship with this man who doesn't want you sexually? Why would you do that to yourself - if at the same time he says "no open marriage"?

No Darwinian you are fixated on the "nice things". I have repeatedly said what you describe as "nice things" are normal in a friendship/casual sex/relationship.

Now I know this man is aware you are married, specifically in respect of the paying for dinner - I think he regards it as a prostitute type transaction where he feels he is expected to pay and should do. Not to make him feel better or because he thinks you wouldn't fuck him otherwise - but because he thinks it is what is expected in that type of set up and it is his side of the transaction.

There is some possibility that he is from a social circle where he would always pay anyway because he's been brought up to believe you should always pay for a woman. But even then IT MEANS NOTHING ABOUT HOW HE FEELS ABOUT YOU.

Stop analysing his behaviour. Sorry to be so blunt but you do need your eyes opening. This is casual fuck for him with a married woman who is desperate for regular sex because her husband won't touch her.

I think when you're analysing things this closely in an affair that should be purely about sexual needs (I'm not being judgemental by saying that) then it's a massive red flag really. It means that actually perhaps your need is really more than you are getting from your marriage in general. The lack of intimacy in the bedroom usually denotes a lack of intimacy elsewhere in the relationship. When I was much, much younger I was involved with a married man and looking back now I can see that I existed for him purely because he wasn't prepared to immerse himself in life at home with his wife and children. It was all about escapism really. I think when you get to that point you really need to make sense of where you are with your life and your marriage and make changes so that your "daydream" becomes your reality (I'm not necessarily talking about people). I think an affair is an unfair way of checking out of life.

you seem genuinely baffled as to why a man would want to be kind, cuddle, hold hands.

I am genuinely baffled why a man without feelings for the woman, would want to do this. I don't want to hold hands and cuddle people I don't care for. I thought men were less inclined to enjoy 'cuddling', especially when the main basis for the 'transaction' is sex.

Bonfire I've had that conversation with DH, several times now. We've even had therapy. Nothing changes for long. And tbh, I'm exhausted and demoralised after 10 years of trying to change it. There's something liberating about just accepting him as he is.

Why would you do that to yourself

Because he's a good father first and foremost and the kids are my top priority. My sexual needs come below their well-being, as it should be.

I think he regards it as a prostitute type transaction where he feels he is expected to pay and should do. Not to make him feel better or because he thinks you wouldn't fuck him otherwise - but because he thinks it is what is expected in that type of set up and it is his side of the transaction.

The 'transaction' is that: He gets sex. I get sex (because like you say, 'I'm desperate'). I still don't understanding why the regular dinner and drinks thing occurs on top of the sex.

I still don't understanding why the regular dinner and drinks thing occurs on top of the sex.

You are either not reading or being dense. Try re-reading my most recent posts.

Plus LOADS of people have pointed out that men may also enjoy normal "dating" interaction as part of a casual relationship. It doesn't mean commitment. It just means a nice evening out and a fuck. So what?

I've said all I have to say on this topic.

His behaviour sounds completely normal for a FB to me

I'm not sure what aspects of it you are confused by? Holding hands, buying dinner etc are very small things and certainly no indication of deeper feelings

So is it not " a sexual affair " where both parties are in it for the sex? Not a fuck buddy situation. If he takes you out and wines and dines you are you not worried about being seen?

The thread itself is starting to become a bit of a headfuck.

OP, if I said that he's kind and cuddles and hold hands because he's madly in love with you, what difference would it make? (I don't think that by the way)

If you're uncomfortable with how you perceive his level of interest, dump him. Believe me there are plenty of men out there who would relish the opportunity for no strings sex with a married woman, you'll easily find a replacement and hopefully it won't be a co-worker.

On the other hand, perhaps you're asking us to analyse his behaviour because you've got feelings for him and want us to reassure you that they're reciprocated. But what does it matter if they're reciprocated? You aren't planning to leave your marriage. If he did have feelings for you, he's likely to get hurt if he continues and if he was the one posting here I'd be telling him to run.

Did you know that some men pay for 'Girlfriend Experience' sex? They pay for it. They pay to hold a woman's hand and cuddle, then have sex with, a woman they don't care about. Men need and want affection too and it doesn't have to mean anything at all.

I just don't understand what you want from the thread?

I just don't understand what you want from the thread?

I wanted to understand FB's motives. I understand a lot more now. Basically I have learnt that: I fulfil his need for traditional intimacy yet I'm disposable (win-win for him). Disposable intimacy, got it. (Sounds like an oxymoron to me, but then, it's become apparent from this thread that my view of intimacy is perhaps atypical?)

I think your feelings for him are the real problem because from what you have said, you feel more for him now.

Well in theory, your arrangement is supposed to be win-win for both of you, surely that's why you started it?
But it's only been 'a few weeks', and there's all this analysis going on.

What's his relationship history? Does he have a habit of having sex with married women, or other casual arrangements? Or is he recently out of a long term relationship?

I agree with Millli, if you don't want to leave your DH. You are going to have to finish with your FB. How would you feel if your FB finished with you for another woman? When my FB finished because he met someone, I was sad because of no more booty calls, but we have remained friends. I never thought 'why not me?'. Your FB isn't falling for you, he is an affectionate guy that is enjoying the sex.

OP, I feel for you and your situation.

I suspect that your work colleague likes things exactly as they are. As others have said he gets it all apart from the commitment side of things.

I suspect if you asked for more he would run for the hills. Remember, he's single and is choosing this situation purely for his benefit.

OK, please lose the idea that your H is a wonderful man if he has told you that he is asexual and that you are supposed to accept this and not seek sex elsewhere. He isn't. He's selfish. He wants you 'there' for domestic service and childcare and is behaving as though your wishes, needs and feelings don't matter as long as his needs are met.
It's OK to end a relationship that doesn't make you happy. You don't owe your H the rest of your life.

Darwin maybe your FB needs to buy you dinner, cuddle etc so he can actually sexually perform. Perhaps for him intercourse is about making love and not just a shag. If you just want sex with no strings attached then maybe you need to buy those sort of services.

I think you're completely wrong in your belief that your sexual needs are irrelevant and that you should sacrifice your need for a sexual relationship for the rest of your life.

This affair isn't working for you, and I suspect it's because you aren't actually comfortable with the idea of being 'used' for sex, despite the fact that that's what you are trying to achieve with him. You want the whole package I think, love, respect and sex.
I think your husband is probably a good man but are you really in love with him? Don't you yearn for a real, passionate relationship?
You know there are no prizes for sacrificing your life don't you? Children can grow up perfectly happily with separated parents.

I agree with others on this thread that hand holding/cuddling/buying dinner is not indicative of deeper feelings. Maybe he just enjoys the physical intimacy (I've never been with a man who didn't like cuddling, not sure where this idea comes from that all men hate cuddling). Maybe he believes that a man should always be the one to pay for dinner. The fact that he goes days without contacting you is either because he enjoys the casual set up and doesn't think about you when he's not with you, or he's trying to not get too involved because he knows you're married.

I once had a successful FWB situation - we got on well as friends and had good sex but neither of us wanted more. I can't speak for him but although I liked him as a person, he wasn't someone I would have wanted to build a future with (incompatible values etc). I slept with someone else and had absolutely no guilt, and I know he wouldn't have cared. However when we were together we cuddled, if I was at his place he cooked me dinner etc.

On the other end of the scale, I had a FWB situation which ended in disaster when I was a naive teenager. I wanted more and thought us getting on so well as friends and having sex would inevitably lead to me. I kept thinking "why am I not good enough, why doesn't he want me to be his girlfriend?"

I believe FWB can work if it's with someone where you really and truly would not want a relationship with them.

I don't believe having an affair with someone you work with is ever a good idea.

Darwin

Disposable Intimacy is a useful term here, and I think is what I struggle to understand. Having read through the thread again and what I have posted I think it captures the issue for me. There are people who can separate out physical and emotional intimacy and have sex purely for fun (or relief of sexual frustration), but the focus here should be on those who want both intimacies but still want a casual or FB relationship. How do they do it? I guess because they live more in the moment - their lives are compartmentalized in time and in situation, so when your FB is at home he doesn't really give you much thought, but when he's with you he wants the emotional intimacy as well as the sex. Some of us, and I think we're a minority (but not an insignificant one) really struggle to compartmentalize. Our internal selves spread forwards and backwards in time and across locations and situations. If we are intimate with someone, that intimacy becomes part of who we are ALL THE TIME. We still have a need for sex on a physical level, but the all-encompassing nature of our emotional intimacy means the physical craving cannot be separated out from the emotional aspect.

Thus, physical sexual needs imply a need for uncompartmentalized emotional intimacy in a way others do not understand. Positive emotional / physical intimacy enriches these lives on a deep level and in a way I suspect many people don't enjoy (or even want!). But negative relationships pollute our entire existence. So, Darwin, I guess you have to make a decision regarding your DH. If you are a person for who emotional and physical intimacy go hand-in-hand, and you are also the sort of person who can't compartmentalize your emotions, then an ongoing lack of intimacy at home is going to gradually destroy your marriage (already has?) and drag you down in all areas of your life, including your ability to be a good parent. A FB relationship is only going to make things worse at home, because you will be thinking of the intimacy you're seeking with FB when you're not having it with your DH. You will also likely get hung up on your FB, because you will be chasing a deeper intimacy that he doesn't understand or want. Does that sound right to you?

For me a fb is just a form of relationship. In the same way that some committed relationships can morph into mere sexual outlets, equally so can casual sex morph into something more.

it is what it is.

Update: I haven't had contact with FB since Thursday. (It's like weaning myself off a drug - very hard work!) He texted me yesterday, I didn't respond. I've arranged my work schedules so we won't be in contact for at least a week. It's getting easier as the hours pass (what a stupid cow I sound like).

Gin his relationship history I'm unsure of. We've only been working together for 5 months. He's very shy though (to the point where people ridicule him, call him a virgin, etc).

SolidGoldBrass DH does more childcare than me. If we were to split, he would get custody, and rightly so.

I believe FWB can work if it's with someone where you really and truly would not want a relationship with them

Maybe that's my problem. However FB is actually quite a boring person. It's a real effort to talk to him and we don't have much in common. In theory, he should be an ideal FB. On the otherhand, I find him 'adorable' in an abstract way.

Kaneda you are SO right about compartmentalization. That appears to be the crux of difference between FB and me. You think most people can compartmentalize effectively?

Bonfire wrote a fantastic spot on post few pages back, please listen to her.

You want these simple gestures to mean a lot more, but they don't. He is not developing feelings for you by holding hands with you and paying for dinner. Please do not read more into it. You really want him to be into you, but this is just a FWB situation for him.

Well, we don't know for sure what fuck buddy wants or thinks- only he knows that, so it seems a bit daft to be categorically stating his intentions as fact.
I can't really get my head around the FWB scenario either OP. I find it really strange that so many posters are saying things like" hand holding and cuddling are no indication of deeper feelings for you".
I would, and have in the past, assumed that if a man is attentive to my needs, affectionate in a romantic sense (eg I don't hold hands with my female friends) then he has some kind of feelings for me!
I can't , and don't want to, get to grips with the idea that I am some kind of stand in for real affection and romance.
There is no benefit in that to me. I want passion and romance, so I'm done with any kind of long term casual fuckage.
I have no problem with one night stands,and have had a few. Never had a bad experience as I was over 21, and they were on my terms. Would rather do that if I want a shag than mess with guys who mess with my head anymore.
In the last few years casual relationships have seemed to become the default, at least with the men I meet, to the point where I can't even imagine meeting someone who wanted more, with me I mean.
I think it is very harsh of some posters to make out you are some kind of idiot because you interpret affection and boyfriend like behaviour from the man you are sleeping with as being indicative of him caring about you.
Having said that, from how you describe this man he doesn't sound like much of a catch really, so it's likely you are just so starved of physical love that you would latch onto anyone who gave you that.
You really, really need to think about separating from your husband.
I agree that it's a terrible mistake to stay together for the sake of the children. They wouldn't thank you for it in the future, and whoever said about the potential fallout of affairs is dead right.
better to make a clean break, and then try and find someone to be with on a level playing field as it were.