Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
anicesitdownandshutup · 20/02/2015 20:35

Had a friend who was in a similiar situation and the marriage didn't last. They had 3 kids together.
She actually said that things were easier after he moved out as she just got on with things, rather than waiting for him to do them. And also she wasn't wasting her energy, seething with resentment when things weren't done.

specialsubject · 20/02/2015 20:36

there's 'lower standards of housework' and there's 'dirty, lazy, entitled slob'.

I'm afraid you've got the latter. If you don't want to end up breeding another one, it is time for a painful ultimatum.

non-ironed clothes; not a problem. Being too stupid even to turn off the TV, too selfish to replace the loo roll, so dirty that he drops litter (fag butts) - big problem.

sorry. But it will only get worse. I really hope he mends his ways; but if not, the choice is sadly clear.

wrong man or no man (for now). Which is better? You KNOW.

expatinscotland · 20/02/2015 20:37

Beware the Sunken Cost fallacy.

He sounds like a peach - a man who is at risk of losing his job rather than behave as an adult. The smoking alone would be a dealbreaker for me.

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 20:37

If he were a builder would posters be excusing his slobbery in the grounds of intelligence?

expatinscotland · 20/02/2015 20:40

'He has give me his word that he will quit smoking before the wedding, and I am holding him to it.'

Sure he will.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

You'll marry him because you want babies and to stay at home.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Mylifepart2 · 20/02/2015 20:45

His slobbery is deliberate covert hostility - flicking the fag butts and literally pushing boundaries by moving inside smoking - you can see his little passive aggressive man-child brain whirring "no one tells me what to do..." he would never say that out loud tho!

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 20:49

ImBatDog

“I know it upsets DH who is a borderline neatfreak, so (and this is the important bit) I MAKE THE EFFORT to do it for HIM even though i couldn't care less...”
If only my OH had the same mindset as you – I completely get that it’s not important to him, but the only time he makes the effort is if we’ve had cross words about it and he’s scared that our relationship is in jeopardy!!!

OP posts:
lavenderhoney · 20/02/2015 20:49

Rich interior life:) that's quite funny really. I think I had one before I had dc.

Dc don't give a damm about your rich interior life. They need 24/7 care and attention. and when they are babies it's not so bad, really. It's when you have to teach talking, playing, being, have friends over, help them with homework, school schedule, reading, playing, emotional support, endless teaching on how to behave etc- it all takes time. And usual 24/7 care ( healthy, sick, housework, 24/7 butler service to your child)

If you're alone doing it you manage. Oh, and you might have to work as well, as dolly day dream has lost his job through slovenliness. Or you have to work anyway. Yeah, can just see him as a sahd Hmm get a prenup re your house and assets. See if his attitude of " chill" stretches to not having his paws on your house.

Managing all that with a lazy dh/dp who just snaffles the fun bits is shit. You start to wonder what he's actually bringing to the party. He thinks his salary is enough and he's working, babe. I'll be in the shed. And don't let the toddler bang on the door...

If you decide to go for it, you need a dishwasher, a housekeeper/ cleaner and support other people get from their partner.

His dismissing views on MN is interesting. He would say that, wouldn't he? And of course he doesn't like confrontation, who does, when they know they are a knob and don't have a leg to stand on!

Liara · 20/02/2015 20:50

Haven't RTFT, but I think your post could have been written by DH at various points in our life.

Twenty something years on, I can't say I really have changed. Well, I would say I have, but he would probably disagree.

I now do all the cooking and making sure that there is good food available at all times for us and the dc. I also do the bulk of the annoying admin/finance thing, which I am extremely organised about and he is hopeless with. He does all the cleaning, clearing and tidying up.

We occasionally have a flaming row where he accuses me of something messiness related and I deny it, but eventually I recognise that it's perfectly possible I did it without really realising it. I do try, and I do respect him, but it always feels like any effort I do put in is not enough as it isn't exactly how he wanted it/where he wanted it and he usually ends up doing it again anyway, so eventually I just drop it and spend the time doing something actually useful/interesting.

We are very happy together, and neither of us wishes we weren't married, it is just a minor thing we need to work around.

He also has annoying habits that I put up with!

AnyFucker · 20/02/2015 20:51

He's clever this one, oh yes

he has op ganging up against the "snooty woman" at work who dared to tell him his appearance was below the standard expected

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 20:53

ThatBloodyWoman

"I, faced with someone 99% compatible would start looking for tolerance and middle ground.
Without that I don't think many relationships stand a chance."

I reckon we’re thinking along the same lines…

OP posts:
YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 20/02/2015 20:54

The thing is, the people here who are the same ie one messy, one not (putting it v simply)- we generally have all genuinely tried to compromise long term out of respect for our partners.

Mr Rich Interior Life only compromises occasionally, after his DP, as he would probably put it "nags", he does so then so his DP doesn't leave him, not because he genuinely wants to make her happy.

It's sounding worse and worse, sorry OP.

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 20:55

AnyFucker believe me, she is a "snooty woman" - my father works extremely high up in the same profession as OH (in which he has worked in for 5 decades) and his verdict on her is exactly the same.

OP posts:
NimpyWWindowmash · 20/02/2015 20:57

The bottom line is: he does not respect youenoughyo make an effort.

He moved into YOUR house, and treats it with disdain. People din't respect what they get for free.

After you are married half if what you own will be his.

You can really only have a living-apart relationship with this sort of person IMO

TheBug · 20/02/2015 20:59

So she's snooty, but what does your old man make of your DP's 'judge me on my work' thing?

expatinscotland · 20/02/2015 21:00

'my father works extremely high up in the same profession as OH (in which he has worked in for 5 decades) and his verdict on her is exactly the same.'

And is he also a PA, disrespectful, smoking slob? Will he be providing your pet with a job once he gets sacked for looking like shit?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 20/02/2015 21:00

And I predict, if you marry him, whenever this issues comes up again and again, which it will, it will be "well you knew what I was like before you married me".

Handywoman · 20/02/2015 21:00

When I threw out my ex (who could never get to grips with finances, who never have up smoking, never lifted a finger round the house or helped with the dc) I came up with the mantra: 'always be sure to marry a grown up'. OP your fiancé sounds like a charming intellectual who still has a lot of growing up to do.

How are you going to find this 'middle ground' OP?

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 21:01

Either way it's still very teenage to turn up to work looking a mess.

Total lack of grip.

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 21:03

ThatBloodyWoman
Who knows perhaps your fiance will be an amazing dad and come into his own if you have a family?
Without giving too much away, OH works with kids on a daily basis and is bloody brilliant with them, so I’ve no doubt that he would be a brilliant dad (albeit I would be the one nagging them to brush their teeth, etc!)

OP posts:
Inertia · 20/02/2015 21:04

YANBU in expecting not have to be chief skivvy to some slob who expects you to crawl about in the dirt picking up his fag butts.

The question is - what are you going to do about it?

He has no respect for you, your time, your wish to have a conversation. He doesn't care if he loses his job through scruffiness, because you can pick up the pieces there too. Working would be such a waste of his time when he can get you to do it and pay for everything in the house you bought.

If it were me, I'd be asking him to move out. I can cope with mess, but I couldn't cope with the total and utter contempt.

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 21:05

What is this intellectual bollocks? All the men are know are 'intellectual' they're academics, writers, doctors, lawyers, bankers, classical musicians yadda yadda, they all manage to dress for work and keep their house in order.

Where does this nonsense come from that someone if you're intellectual you can't see?

LucyBealesGhost · 20/02/2015 21:07

I honestly never thought I'd say this! ... His comment about MN set off all my spidey senses. I can only suppose this means I've picked up on a number of small, red flags in your posts and this epitomised the cumulative issue. That issue would be something to do with a covert dislike of, or contempt for, women. PPs have raised this and pointed out it will get a hell of a lot more pronounced if you have children together.

You could make hired help - domestic for now, plus childcare when you have DC - a condition of your marriage. Either way, I like MotherBluestocking's suggestion. It's time you unearthed some of the motives behind this.

It certainly sounds like a potential time-bomb. You wouldn't be unreasonable to call the wedding off if resolution can't be found. You'd be basing your marriage on an expectation of self-sacrifice, which is never going to end well.

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 21:07

I always thought Rolf Harris was brilliant with kids, it means diddly squat OP.

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 21:08

Being Smartie Artie OP is not the same as pulling your weight with the childcare.