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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
MotherBluestocking · 20/02/2015 18:12

You will never be able to house-train this man. He sounds like the archetypal hyper-intelligent creative, whose interior life is so rich and stimulating that he simply doesn't notice the material world around him. (Such men are often narcissistic and emotionally immature, but it sounds as though you've been together long enough for you to know if that were the case.)
So realistically you have to put up or get out, bearing in mind - as other posters have said - that it will get worse if you have children.
If you decide to put up, there are some things you can do to make life more bearable. Paying a cleaner who will take charge of his laundry is certainly one of them. If household finances allow it, you could consider contracting out some household admin: there are various concierge-type services who do this, and, while not cheap, might be worth it in terms of domestic harmony. You might also think about whether there are any household responsibilities he would do - more cooking for example. Even though you say you don't mind cooking 5-6 times per week, if he took on more of it he would at least be contributing. Or food shopping: he might not mind holes in his shoes, but presumably he would mind if there were no food in the house. Is there a room you can make your own personal space, which he can only use with you and with your permission?
Very very many women have to cope with partners whose domestic standards fall far short of their own, and a trawl around this site will show that there are no simple solutions. You at least have the advantage of being able to opt out relatively cleanly if you decide that's what has to happen, and this is easily the strongest card in your hand - plus the fact that it's your house. I think you need to explain to him, calmly, that you are not prepared to spend the rest of your life like this, and see what improvements you can come up with together. Perhaps set a time limit after which you will review arrangements and make adjustments - drastic or otherwise - as necessary.
Good luck!

trackrBird · 20/02/2015 18:12

If his boss reprimanded him for his unkempt ways, and he still wasn't bothered, then he's quite a hardened case.

It's concerning that he sees reasonable levels of cleanliness / tidiness as unimportant. These things are important, for hygiene and the comfort of others, even if it doesn't concern him unduly. You've asked him to make an effort for you, but it doesn't seem to register with him.

What will happen when there are children there to consider? Will they be in the garden playing with Daddy's cigarette butts, or falling over the tin of fence paint, I wonder? Are you going to be running yourself ragged keeping your household happy, healthy and organised while your DH doesn't contribute because he thinks it's not important?

I'm not sure what to say, except that this is the best he will be, and I think it might drive you mad if he shows no interest in changing.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2015 18:19

I think the fiancé is getting a hard time. Neither person is right or wrong here. Slobs will be slobs and tidy people will be tidy. Such is life. There may be hygiene concerns and so forth but, if he lived by himself, the only person affected by the rats and lice that would gather around him would be himself.... and maybe the council when they clear the place after he dies.

The problem - as it so often is - is incompatibility on a key matter. It's like finding out the man of your dreams who 'gets you' on so many levels and who you have identified as the father of your future children is a Nazi sympathiser or goes clubbing baby seals at the weekends. You really want to not be bothered by it...... but.....

Bluestocking · 20/02/2015 18:19

This particular 1% sounds impossible to live with, and I can guarantee that once you put a newborn into the mix, you will want to tear his head off.

A really good cleaner would help, but only up to a point as PPs have said - they wouldn't be able to prevent things like the ruined dress or the pots of paint left out in the garden. It's not just the mess, it's the total lack of respect and consideration for your feelings that's upsetting. It's never nice, but when you are dog-tired from broken nights and breastfeeding, it really hurts to feel that the one person who you should be able to trust to support you just simply doesn't even care enough about you to check their pockets or bring the paint in from the garden.

If you marry this person in the autumn and go on to TTC and have a baby straight away, I would put a large bet on you being back here in July/August in a state of utter desperation as Mr Nice Guy (who specialises in annoying and letting you down by being a slob) carries on the way he always has done.

Getting him on MN to hear some home truths might work; but it might be that he just thinks he's so great and irreplaceable that he can just carry on being a pig and it won't matter.

marshmallowpies · 20/02/2015 18:21

The fag butts thing is awful - I had a neighbour who smoked in his garden and threw the butts into mine, so horrid. Hated it.

My DH and I (I hope) complement each other - he has higher cleanliness standards than me but I can't bear piles of stuff lying around and like tidying up. So he cleans and I tidy away...but he probably does more than me. I do feel bad about it. He'd get a cleaner but I feel I can't justify the cost.

One thing he did used to do that drove me mad was leave his gym kit on the floor after using it, for days at a time, but he left it in his study so I never felt I could nag him about it. Till one day he picked it up and a mouse ran out. He doesn't leave his gym stuff on the floor any more!

Perhaps you could find a way of introducing a mouse into one of his piles of clothes...it doesn't sound like he'd be too bothered by that though?

cailindana · 20/02/2015 18:26

I think the fiance deserves a hard time Cogito. I don't hold any truck with this "some people are slobs" malarkey - he has chosen to be in a committed relationship and he has to take that into account in his everyday life, which means having basic respect for the other person in terms. If he's throwing fag ends around, leaving the tv on, not tidying up anything after himself, then he's basically acting like he's single. He's not single, he's in a relationship and he can't just treat the place like a doss house.

My DH wasn't as bad as yours pre-kids - he'd do some tidying and a lot of cooking, but even still this issue is one of the reasons why after 7 years of marriage we're on the rocks. It is a big deal.

Mylifepart2 · 20/02/2015 18:26

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2306927-DP-does-nothing-how-did-this-come-about?

Read the thread above - discussion about how it snowballs after marriage and with children - ie many MNers didnt even notice it was an issue pre-kids.

Does he abdicate responsibility for admin and financial decisions etc as well - or is it just cooking and cleaning?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 20/02/2015 18:28

I am the lazy and messy one in our relationship and I know it drove my DH bananas at first.

I think he felt like you do, I didn't do enough and I didn't do it to his standards. I felt his standards were too high! When we had a period of him being the SAHP it worked best for us as he felt happy he had the time to do things properly and I appreciated everything he did as I was so busy and it enabled me to have a good career. Now due to ill health I am the SAHP and my house is no longer immaculate Grin but over the years we have had a mixture of both and learnt what works.

The key things to me, are compromise and respect. He compromised in realising if things were done, even if they weren't to his standard, at least I had made an effort. I compromised in picking stuff up and cleaning more more than I would normally.

I respected him enough not to treat him like a servant and leave it all for him. He respected me enough not to treat me like a child and "tell me off" or micro manage me.

So it can work even if you are poles apart on these matters, but you absolutely have to respect each other and compromise. If he cannot do this (and I'm afraid reading it it sounds like he doesn't) it doesn't bode well. The key thing is for me is that he is being very disrespectful to you. I hate washing up and tidying away, but I realise it is important to my DH - I want him to feel happy in his home so I make an effort. I respect him enough not to treat him like a personal servant. He may come along and re do the washing up after I've done it, but he sees that I've done it and not left it for him.

We have been together a long time and love each other very much so as I said, it can work when you're poles apart but you both have to make the effort. Your DP doesn't seem to be making any effort. Maybe a serious talk and discussion of postponing the wedding until you are sure it will work long term will make him realise?

cailindana · 20/02/2015 18:28

Believe me, when you've been up all night with a newborn, then have to get up in the morning to tend to said newborn and a toddler and your DH has had a full night's sleep and goes off out to work leaving bread crumbs and a knife covered in cream cheese on the counter, you actually physically and with rage, hate him. I distinctly remember looking at that dirty knife and feeling so cross I was shaking.

Fairylea · 20/02/2015 18:31

Don't have dc with him. If you feel like this now you will absolutely detest him when you have children.

cailindana · 20/02/2015 18:33

This sort of attitude towards cleaning displays an extreme arrogance - Other people have to tidy and clean but I don't, that doesn't apply to me, I'm too special.

My DH admitted also he dragged his heels on cleaning because deep down he believed it was my job. Arse.

AnyFucker · 20/02/2015 18:34

I'm with calling on this one

I could not share my personal space with someone who had so little respect for it

sorry. ...I think you will come to regret marrying him

AnyFucker · 20/02/2015 18:35

*cailin

ThatBloodyWoman · 20/02/2015 18:35

I never know if the car needs mot or fuel or tax or repairs.
I can't be arsed to do any household admin -it drives me potty.
I haven't mown the lawn for over 10 years.
I never do food shopping.I don't cook if dh is home.
I don't clean my shoes or the dc's generally.
I'm not very patient with babies.

DH has accepted this and we've been together over 20 years..

I've accepted that he doesn't wash up unless asked.
He is bordering on dangerous in the use of the washing machine.
He can do paperwork and finances but couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
And more....

We don't all have to be perfect,but to find a middle ground.We're both shite at hoovering so we've developed a blind eye.

Who knows perhaps your fiance will be an amazing dad and come into his own if you have a family?

I think a successful relationship is based on the 99% - and with the 1% trying to appreciate that which they can do.

Only you can know op whether its weighed too much in his favour and whether he's reluctant to redress the balance -not necessarily in a way prescribed by you,but in a way that works for you.

I wouldn't chuck away what you have without effort tbh.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2015 18:38

How on earth can any amount of 'effort' on the part of the OP correct someone else's laziness? Hmm Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Heels99 · 20/02/2015 18:40

The issue is that when you have kids you really really need him to crank it up a notch as work was a team with you on household matters. The amount of laundry and tidying up massively increases, you don't want a man who can't be trusted to run the washer when baby has been sick all night and you are desperate for clean sheets, who can't sterilise a bottle, tidy up,the toys, clean the bathroom etc etc etc with kids you really don't get a break from the domestics, you are both tied and crotchety and you need to be able to rely on each other. Getting a cleaner doesn't help with any of that stuff.

Could you try writing a list? Like you would for a child? So every step involved in washing up,from loadingthe dishwasher to rinsing out the sink. List of his jobs for the week e.g bins etc without you reminding him. Give it to him and leave him to get in with it. Try it for 3 weeks, see where you are. He does sound a right pain to be honest but I understand you see other qualities in him.

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 18:45

I would sit him down and tell him that if he wants this relationship to continue he acts like an adult male instead of a child, and you divide the chores 50:50 and he does his share without being asked. It's completely wrong to think of this in terms of 'help', he shouldn't be 'helping' you he should be pulling his adult weight.

If necessary the chores can be written out so that he doesn't have to be reminded every day.

I would not have kids without resolving this because it will simply get worse - you will be doing all the chores and all the childcare while he's flicking fag butts into the garden.

If you want to get a cleaner as well, fine, but before you do he has to understand that in a partnership the chores have to shouldered by both of you.

Twinklestein · 20/02/2015 18:48

He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person.

He wants to be his own child, actually. If he wants to be his own person he needs man up and act like an adult. If he doesn't like being micromanaged then why on earth doesn't he organise his life so that he doesn't need to be?

cailindana · 20/02/2015 18:50

I would tell him that if he wants to be his own person he's quite welcome to do that, on his own. He's in a relationship, he can't just waft around doing as he pleases and pretend it doesn't matter.

ImADonkeyOnTheEdge · 20/02/2015 18:52

If you don't want to marry him, you don't have to.

You have the power. You decide.

Only do it if you are absolutely sure.

Personally, I would rather be on my own than compromise with another 'not quite good enough' partner.

Bit that's just me because I'm 44 and just can't be arsed any more.

Good luck! x

ImperialBlether · 20/02/2015 18:56

The thing that has struck me most is that this man has moved into your home and systematically destroyed it! He has no respect for your home whatsoever. Presumably you worked hard to save money for the house? You were responsible for choosing furniture, having carpet laid etc? Now he comes along and just treats it like it's some fucking student bedroom and thinks (even if he doesn't say it) that you are nagging him when you complain.

Of course you shouldn't get a cleaner simply because he can't be bothered tidying up properly. It would be different if you both agreed to have one to save you both time, but you'd do just as much and he'd do fuck all.

He will drive you demented eventually. You'll pass him a dirty nappy, asking him to take it to the wheelie bin and you'll find it in the kitchen sink. The baby's bathwater won't be emptied, the baby's clothes won't be put in the wash at the end of the day. Nothing will be done unless you do it. And you will do it, because you are a normal woman who wants to live in a normal and lovely home - he will let you do it, no matter how knackered, no matter that you find it difficult to walk after or during the pregnancy, you will still be the one to do all the work. And resentment will grow and grow and this lovely man won't seem so lovely any more.

The fact is it's selfish and rude behaviour, but because he makes you laugh you can ignore it a lot of the time. If a friend came to stay and treated your home like that, you'd be justified in telling them to fuck off out and take their disrespectful attitude with them.

Keep this guy as a friend, but keep him at a physical distance.

ThatBloodyWoman · 20/02/2015 18:56

Cogito by effort I mean what I said in my earlier post.
Working on tolerance and playing to each others strengths.
It doesn't strike me that he's lazy tbh

ImperialBlether · 20/02/2015 18:58

If you do dump him, don't tell him it's because he's messy. Tell him it's because he's disrespectful.

Jackiebrambles · 20/02/2015 19:00

The fag butts thing Is vile. In your own garden too?! Wtf?! It just shows no respect, at all.

ImBatDog · 20/02/2015 19:00

he's being very selfish.

i'm the untidy one in mine and Dh's relationship, i'm really not fussed about living in a messy house.. i'm not as bad as your DP, but i have my moments... i dont really care if my clothes are a bit creased, i do leave my washing that i've got to put away left in a pile for a few days, i do leave stuff out and around, forget to clean my hair out of the plughole, leave my toast crumbs on the bread board, and i really couldnt give a monkeys if the bed is unmade as i'm the first in it anyway!

BUT, i know it upsets DH who is a borderline neatfreak, so (and this is the important bit) I MAKE THE EFFORT to do it for HIM even though i couldn't care less... so i put my washing away, i make sure i tidy things away (most of the time) I do all the laundry, i hoover daily, i put the bins out, i change the loo roll (most of the time), i make the beds, i wipe my roast crumbs (ok i dont when he's at work, but i spend 20 mins tidying before he gets home, lol). There is still stuff i miss, because i have short term memory problems and get distracted so can forget to do things... but he appreciates that i at least TRY.

having kids also made me change, i like the house to be at least tidy for their sake, and the tidier i keep it for them, the more i like it tidy.

i'm never going to be perfect, i'm not always going to remember to wipe the sink down, or de-hair the plug hole, or put my shoes in the cupboard instead of leaving them where i kicked them off, there are going to be days where having washed, dried and folded the laundry, i forget to put it away, or my idea of making the bed is just to pull the duvet back over instead of straightening it properly... but Dh can let those things go as its part of who i am.

If your DP can't do that, then take it from me, its never going to work.. we still argue about my untidiness, but i've argued a few times that he needs to unclench a bit too, its my house as well, why should how HE likes it win ALL the time, i dont want to live in a showhome, dirty/messy is a problem, untidy/lived in is not... and he conceded that point!