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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
Joysmum · 25/02/2015 20:41

It's part of the board that people point out the possibility of abuse and PA behaviour and disregard the thoughts of the OP and continue like a dog with a bone when they look into it but then don't agree with this diagnosis Wink

BathtimeFunkster · 25/02/2015 20:44

Yes, that question will tell you a lot.

If he flicked butts all over your patio because he couldn't see the ashtray, then in the light of day a slightly incompetent, but basically good hearted, person will have gone out and swept up.

If he left them for you to do, then it's hard to avoid the conclusion that his behaviour was a little rebellion against being asked to smoke outside.

I think it's also pretty telling that you are so keen to hide the way he treats you and your home from your parents.

Would your Dad be happy to have him as a son in law if he knew that he put your health at risk by smoking in your house against your wishes?

Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 20:44

Yes, but surely PA is intentionally manipulative behaviour?

Is it? Does it matter? We had the conscious/unconscious debate up-thread.

It is a deeply engrained, dysfunctional emotional and behavioural response.

It needs to be identified and acknowledged for what it is and then worked on through extensive specialist therapy as GallicIsCharlie said in her first post.

It will not be fixed by rotas, lists, nagging, cajoling etc.

MrsJohnLewis · 25/02/2015 20:44

Yeah I asked about who picked up the fag butts too. But OP side stepped the answer.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 20:46

Oh, come on, Joy, people are trying to explain the phenomenon. OP can't respond to thoughts around a psychological quirk unless she understands it.

There has to be some reason why a lovely, loving, thoroughly adorable, hard-working and giving adult makes a negative net contribution to the running of his personal life. And it's not likely to be a straightforward, surface reason - because only a serious disability could provide that.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 20:50

I think it's also pretty telling that you are so keen to hide the way he treats you and your home from your parents. Would your Dad be happy to have him as a son in law if he knew that he put your health at risk by smoking in your house against your wishes?
Probably not. I feel I am protecting my parents as much as him by hiding it. I don't want to worry them. They know he is messy and it exasperates me, but they're not the type to stick their oar in, their response has been "well only you can decide whether or not you can live with it."

OP posts:
Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 20:54

The first time I found the fag buts out there I told him to pick them up and he said he would, but then he got distracted by something else and went to bed without doing it. I picked them up in the next day and told him it had pissed me off. He apologised and said it had slipped his mind. The second time I found them out there I went nuts and he jumped up and got rid of them straight away.

OP posts:
GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 20:55

Can the pair of you afford a cleaner/helper to come in, say, 6 hours a week at £12 an hour?

BathtimeFunkster · 25/02/2015 20:55

Fine.

But if you are having to cover for him to your parents, then you can't really use the fact that they like him as a justification for staying with him.

They don't know how he really treats you.

And now we know (as if we didn't already) that it was you who cleaned up the fag ends he threw all over your patio.

There's some minutes of your life you're never going to get back.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 20:56

Can the pair of you afford a cleaner/helper to come in, say, 6 hours a week at £12 an hour? not at the moment, while we're paying for the wedding.

OP posts:
lotsofcheese · 25/02/2015 20:57

I think your parents are right - it literally does boil down to whether you can actually LIVE with someone. 3 years is a long time to have lived in such circumstances (ie his messiness). No wonder you have been at the end of your tether, I would have exploded by now.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 20:58

Hmm ... priorities Grin

He wants the enormous wedding for his enormous family, right?

How about making it a choice: wedding OR clean/help? If he opts for wedding, he has to do the 6 hours.

BathtimeFunkster · 25/02/2015 21:01

The first time I found the fag buts out there I told him to pick them up and he said he would, but then he got distracted by something else and went to bed without doing it. I picked them up in the next day and told him it had pissed me off. He apologised and said it had slipped his mind. The second time I found them out there I went nuts and he jumped up and got rid of them straight away.

The dictionary definition of passive-aggressive is just his mug shot.

Seriously - he's just like his Dad, except he lies and says he will do things he has no intention of doing.

He didn't "get distracted", he just didn't bother.

He let you clean up his stinky, filthy butts and then left them there for you a second time knowing you were pissed off.

He only cleaned up when you went mad at him. He doesn't care if you're pissed off unless you force a conflict he can't avoid.

Jesus, wake up.

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 21:10

Yes, I've chosen a dress and often thinking about walking down the aisle towards him brings tears of happiness to my eyes

The dress, the ceremony, the romance is just one day.

Does the thought of your relationship continuing exactly as it is now for the next 40 years bring tears of happiness to your eyes? That's the crux.

You may never be able to get him to step up, you may never be able to get him to quit smoking. You may be doing all you are now plus the majority of childcare, and your job, for good.

You're 'fed up' and at your 'wit's end' after 3 years, things are much more likely to continue exactly as they are than radically to alter, given that he's not had an epiphany.

From what you say he's apparently as disorganised and messy at work as he is at home, I understand that his boss may be exacting, but the pattern is clear.

Has he thought about therapy or life coaching to develop strategies to get more organised?

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 21:11

Both of the fag but incidents were before we had the talk on Sunday where I feel that I got through to him. Since then (so far) no further issues with it.

OP posts:
Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 21:12

Has he thought about therapy or life coaching to develop strategies to get more organised? We've never discussed this. I can see how it would make sense.

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 21:18

not at the moment, while we're paying for the wedding

Isn't it more important to try a cleaner and see what difference that makes to the status quo before you get married?

The important thing is to get this relationship working properly for you, before you get hitched.

So many people get divorced because they think things are going to get better once they're married, and nothing changes.

My sister could tell you all about that one, her husband is exactly as messy, chaotic and drinks exactly the same amount as he did before they were married. Possibly more. But now they have 3 kids and a house that's a complete tip.

BathtimeFunkster · 25/02/2015 21:18

I hope you did get through to him.

But I also hope that if this kind of behaviour surfaces again, you will see it for the passive aggressive bullshit it has always been and stop buying into his self image of a bumbling genius.

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 21:20

We've never discussed this. I can see how it would make sense

You might as well give it a try, ultimately it will come down to how invested he is in trying to change.

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 21:21

Yes I hope you get through to him too, and that he commits to making the changes necessary to make this relationship work.

I'm off OP, I wish you all the best.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 21:28

Well so far this evening without being prompted he has remembered that today is bin day, noticed that the dryer needed putting on after the washing finished and that the washing up needed putting away. Such small things, but believe me, this is progress.

He even said, "shall I clean the fridge out?" because I'd said it was one of the jobs I did that he hadn't even realised needed doing. I pointed out to him that the fridge didn't need cleaning out because I'd done it at the weekend and if he were to use his eyes he'd see that, so the good intention was there, not quite the logic behind it yet...

OP posts:
MrsJohnLewis · 25/02/2015 21:32

Asking your permission to clean the fridge out like you own it.

I can see you think he's making an effort but it's meaningless unless he can keep it up long term.

Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 21:37

Your devoted parents will be absolutely devastated if the lives of their lovely only child and any future grand children is blighted by this.

After a few years with young babies this PA abusive behaviour will leave you a miserable, exhausted, frustrated, exasperated, screaming nagging banshee - totally drained and depressed from trying to move the mountain that is your impossible, useless OH.

You will divorce and loose your house. Your hard won career will collapse as you try to muddle through as a single parent. Your children's emotional health and behaviour will suffer as they try to under stand the toxic dynamic and dysfunctional parenting of their PA Dad.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 22:25

I'm not as doomy about it all as Mylife ... yet. But you do need to hold on to your recent realisation that this is potentially dealbreaking for you, Fed. And to be very clear-sighted about the long-term implications of any strategies you & he adopt before your wedding. I also feel it really is a good idea to talk to your parents more openly.

Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 22:33

Gallic - the "doomy" is what has actually happened to me and countless other women tell the same story here on MN

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2275725-Anyone-else-end-up-as-an-angry-banshee-after-living-with-Mr-Nice-passive-irresponsible