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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 13:34

Spot on Joysmum - you cant train a PA or selfish man.

The proof is in the pudding.

The OP has been trying to train one for 3.5 years - until she is at "her wits end" with no progress.

His PA behaviour will corrode and destroy her hard won career, her home, her financial security as well as her mental and physical health by the sheer exhaustion of trying to move this mountain.

He is already well on the road to sabotaging his own career 'refuses to polish his shoes, get a hair cut, iron his shirt, doesnt inspire 100% confidence, is always stressed, 'works" til midnight.

That is not sustainable - he doesnt have the emotional resilience to cope with his chosen profession. So he will whimper on about that continuing to blame his snooty boss and OP will do a "there, there, poor you! -- you settle down there on the sofa play on your games, let me get you a ickle blanket" before she goes off to all the childcare and all the chores (which are greater than double because he deliberately makes more work for her).

MrsJohnLewis · 25/02/2015 13:36

I just keep thinking of the fag butts in your garden.

I mean what is his mindset when he's standing there right next to the ashtray and he just flick it on the floor?

That kind of behaviour just speaks to a real 'fuck it, it's not my problem' mentality. Like people who chuck litter out of car windows. 'Fuck it. It's not my problem. I'm already not thinking about it.'

I just can't think of any reasonable explanation for him littering your garden with his vile fag butts when there's an ashtray there. How does he explain it?

He's 'special'? 'Ditzy'? 'A misunderstood genius'?

No. The only reason he litters your garden is because he doesn't give a shit.

You'll just roll your eyes and go 'oh isn't he lovably eccentric, forgetting to use the ashtray that's right in front of him.'

And your parents, your parents will come over and clean up after him.

How are you not thoroughly turned off by such pathetic manchild behaviour?

He flicks fag butts all over your lawn and then your parents pick them up.

I wonder what they really make of it all.

MrsJohnLewis · 25/02/2015 13:40

I'm just imagining my parents giving up their leisure time to come over to my house and pick up after my DP's disgusting, thoughtless mess and even the idea of it makes my vagina close up.

I could not respect a man who did that.

UndecidedNow · 25/02/2015 13:44

FedUp I have one of those unusual type at home too.
Not the same than your DP at all but just as unusual in his attitude and approach.
It's not because people are unusual or different that you can't live with them and be happy.
It takes the will to be happy with what you have. But you might also end up with a fantastic relationship.

I'm not sure shay to advise because in some ways, what us frustrating you is well... Frustrating. And most people can see that your expectations re the fags aren't crazy.
But at the same time, unusual people means unusual ways to get your message across, unusual ways to live and unusual compromises.

Have yout tries to sit down with him and draw a map with the things that are non negotiable, the things that really should happen but you are happy to compromise on the what/how/who and the ones you aren't that fussed about. Then ask your DP to do the same and compare it. Try and ensure that both if you have 'your core needs' met and see how you can handle the rest.
It will only work if you find a solution together rather than you telling him what to do.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 13:45

My parents don't know he still smokes! Both DM and DF's fathers died of lung cancer after being lifelong smokers. At one point OH gave up and they were really pleased for him, but then he started again after a bereavement and I never told my parents. Before they come round, all evidence of smoking gets cleared away.

The fag buts in the garden only happened in the last week or so after I made it clear I didn't want smoking in the kitchen any more. Parents only do the gardening in the summer, so his mess hasn't impacted on them. It wasn't like he was flicking them on the lawn, or in the hedge, but they were left all over the patio. His defence was that it was dark and he couldn't see the ashtray! pathetic I know.

OP posts:
Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 13:48

I mean what is his mindset when he's standing there right next to the ashtray and he just flick it on the floor?

The mindset of the PA - when forced to do as he is told, will not express his irritation verbally but will seek his revenge in deliberate hostile acts of rebellion aimed at the OP or his boss or anyone else who would dare request he follow standard adult social and occupational standards.

ditto hanging the jumper on the door and fucking it up, ditto leaving he paintbrush out in the rain for a month, ditto putting the dirty paintbrush away, ditto refusing to polish his shoes because his boss said get a hair cut, ditto "forgetting" to go shopping, ditto leaving out key ingredients when forced to go shopping, ditto putting the dyson away in an annoying way, ditto smoking, ditto leaving the TV on, ditto not putting clothes away when OP has washed and dried and folded them for him, ditto not changing to loo roll.....and so it goes on and on and on......

rosepetalsoup · 25/02/2015 13:48

OP it sounds like your OH may also be quite stressed about the wedding, but pinning it on work. Have you asked him? It sounds a bit like he's freaking out.

MrsJohnLewis · 25/02/2015 13:52

It will only work if you find a solution together

But it doesn't seem like he's interested in finding a solution. As far as he's concerned there's no problem to solve.

In his mind the mess isn't a problem, OP's distress isn't a problem. What's to solve??

All the suggestions about OP drawing up rotas and making lists and itemising chores and presenting him with all this qualification of her unhappiness... It's just another example of her running around him, managing the situation and doing all the grunt work while he just sits there, like a useless but genius lemon, and makes sympathetic noises.

Whether OP is doing housework for both of them, or trying to get him to understand her POV, the net effort required is the same.

I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

BelleCurve · 25/02/2015 13:53

The fag buts in the garden were deliberate passive aggressive retaliation for you forbidding smoking in the kitchen.

The excuse about not seeing the ashtray was not true. He was lying to you. This is very important to realise. He is not a special, misunderstood man but a manipulator.

None of the things he does are accidental, he is a clever guy. He is deliberately sabotaging you, but with a shrug and a sheepish grin.

BathtimeFunkster · 25/02/2015 13:53

Before they come round, all evidence of smoking gets cleared away.

By whom?

The fag buts in the garden only happened in the last week or so after I made it clear I didn't want smoking in the kitchen any more.

Wow!

So he smoked inside your house, against your will, and then when you out a stop to it he punished you by littering your patio.

Please tell me it wasn't you hiding his mistreatment of you home from your parents?

I had no idea you got a free pass to be a wanker if you were "unusual".

I'm quite unusual and I also consider myself to be monumentally clever and special. I'm like a gift to the world. I can't be expected to conform to standards of decent behaviour, like some normal person.

I wish I had realised this before I married someone too clever to accept this load of utter crap.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 13:54

His twin has no interest in getting married or having kids or doing anything except remaining in his hometown in an unchallenging job.

It sounds to me as if they both have performance anxiety, expressed in different avoidance styles. I'd blame the overbearing dad for that (if I remember what you said correctly.) You ain't his therapist, Fed, and you lack the ability to transport him back in time and give the boys a different childhood.

You will be stuck with this. If he fixes the housekeeping problems, he'll become unresponsive in other ways. If I'm reading this right, he won't be able to help it.

Again and again ... Why not take the good and literally leave the bad? Have you absolutely got to have him living in your house? Is it essential to hand half your material assets over?

I agree about talking this over with your parents. This thread could give them courage to speak their minds, if they're quietly concerned.

Nearasdammit · 25/02/2015 13:54

Yes. The fag butts are a bit of a giveaway.

Would he do it in someone else's garden I wonder?
Would he do it in someone's house, if it was a house that allowed smoking inside?

The only - ONLY - reason that he does it in YOUR garden is that he gives himself permission to. It just doesn't matter.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 13:54

OH is freaking out about the cost of the wedding, yes. I would have quite happily eloped and it's not like we're having anything flash by any means, but he was insistent that all the members of his enormous family should be there, which has bumped the price up a lot.

OP posts:
rosepetalsoup · 25/02/2015 13:57

Hm. Could your dad have a word with him, in a kind of cheesy 'before I let you marry my daughter... you have to step the f* up' kind of way? You could get your dad to go on about how imaginative and special you are and how he needs to become much more of an effective domestique so that you can truly shine!!

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 25/02/2015 13:57

I am going to go back and read the whole thread, but I started to glance at it yesterday and if you were my daughter OP, I'd be absolutely horrified that you were considering marriage with this man.

Forget all the workload, how to solve the domestic issues, who does and doesn't do what, work and children and everything else, it boils down to this.

My advice to anyone about their relationship is that it's not the good and positive things that count most it's the negative ones. If you can live with the negative traits and behaviours quite happily, as I can with my DH's and he mine, then you'll be happy and have a successful partnership. By that I mean anything that doesn't especially suit you doesn't have a negative impact on your life or how you feel about your partner.

You've chosen fedup as your screen name and titled your thread witsend
I think that answers that then Sad

MrsJohnLewis · 25/02/2015 13:58

Who clears up the evidence of his smoking?

It's you, isn't it OP?

rosepetalsoup · 25/02/2015 13:59

^ that is very true. It's certainly whether you can live with the negative ones.

Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 14:09

Thanks for spelling it out BelleCurve re the fag butt flicking. So for completeness.....

the hanging your jumper on the door and fucking it up, leaving he paintbrush out in the rain for a month, putting the dirty paintbrush away, "forgetting" to go shopping, leaving out key ingredients from the shop, putting the dyson away in an annoying way, were deliberate passive aggressive hostile acts of retaliation for you daring to ask him to hang up your jumper to dry, paint the fence, take in the paint brush, plan a meal/make a shopping list, go shopping and hoover.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 14:10

I mean anything that doesn't especially suit you doesn't have a negative impact on your life or how you feel about your partner.

This is excellent, Enrique! Thinking about XH2, I was clear I didn't like him being out all the bloody time and leaving engine parts on the living-room floor but that I could cope with it. What I couldn't handle was him acting as if I wanted to stop him doing those things, so being belligerent & dishonest about it.

It's a subtle point, worth careful consideration. In his case it did come down to a pervasive, well disguised, contempt of women. I shouldn't be surprised if it nearly always does.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 14:12

Have you absolutely got to have him living in your house?

When we lived apart, he spent at least 5-6 nights at my house regardless, because I disliked sleeping in his student style house and we really missed each other if we saw each other less than that. He was sick of carting his stuff around all the time and of course we had twice as many bills to pay.

Is it essential to hand half your material assets over?

He genuinely wasn't aware until I told him recently that marrying me would mean he owned half my assets. (And I do believe this - for example he had no idea how mortgages worked before I explained to him, because it's not something that's ever been on his radar) He is the least materialistic person I know and has said that if god forbid anything went wrong after marriage he wouldn't want any claim over my house, because he knows that is my security and has been for a long time since before he entered the equation. He said if I wanted him to, he would even sign a prenup. Of course, if we were to buy somewhere together in the future, then we would have to divide things up. God, it feels horrible talking about this - it feels like I'm talking about someone else's life, not my OH who I wouldn't be marrying if I didn't fully intend to share the rest of my life with him.

OP posts:
BeCool · 25/02/2015 14:14

Whether you take the view that this guy is a "special intellect" and therefore is to be afforded lifelong "special privileges" or has pulled the age old fast one over the OP (re housework being "women's" work" and he just doesn't know what to do and couldn't possibly learn) doesn't really matter though does it.

The real question is can the OP put up and shut up and do it all herself, including taking care of any children they may have, on her own, FOREVER, while her super special intellectual husband lounges about reading and smoking or whatever else takes his pleasure?

Can you deal with that OP? Is that the future you imagined for yourself and your family?

Lancelottie · 25/02/2015 14:16

Errm, is he actually planning on growing up any time soon, then?

I mean, why hasn't it occurred to him to find out how mortgages and marriage work?

HelenaDove · 25/02/2015 14:16

And the ruined expensive dress in the washing machine.

He has no respect for your property or for you OP.

Twinklestein · 25/02/2015 14:18

You're fully intending to share the rest of your life with him with significant reservations.

If he's freaking out about the price of the wedding - that's your way out.
Otherwise, he's right you need a prenup.

Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 14:21

BeCool -- the OP also needs to add on to your list the additional work and distress inflicted by the repeated deliberate acts of hostile rebellion - it is not just him being a lazy arse - he is worse than that - when he adds more unnecessary work and more chaos by these acts deliberate but covert (he thinks) abuse on to the OP.

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