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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

718 replies

Fedupwithmess · 20/02/2015 17:33

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

OP posts:
AWholeLottaNosy · 25/02/2015 16:39

"It's not like I do it on purpose". There is a theory that we are always " on purpose", just depends whether it is conscious or not...

lotsofcheese · 25/02/2015 17:31

OP, just out of interest, does he "forget" things & need constant reminding outside of the home ie at work?

For example, if you've said the bins need to go out on a Tuesday night & he "forgets", but say he always remembered to watch Eastenders on a Tue at 8? Or to attend a weekly meeting at work every Thursday at 9am?

Maybe I'm extraordinarily cynical, but IME there is usually a case of selective memory with household stuff. If we can remember after being told once (eg bin days) there's no reason why someone else (of any gender) can't.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 18:04

I have bin day in my calendar! Google texts me, emails me, rings my phone AND puts popups on my desktop to tell me which bin to put out. I never used to be like this - had a high-powered job and all - but, since I'm so not on top of anything these days, I work around myself (to an extent; there's still some of that whiffy washing in a pile.) As I've said, though, I am passive-aggressive ... even towards myself Confused You have to know what your failings are and figure stuff out, helpfully.

Everything depends on whether Mr Fedup accepts that these are serious failings and has the bottle to face his own facts. If it doesn't work, or isn't effective enough, then maybe Fed and he can figure a mutual workaround. The only thing I urge you NOT to do, Fed, is simply hope and trust. Because dashed hopes and broken trust are guaranteed to kill love.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 18:10

It gives me a giggle, though, when I check my diary and it announces, importantly: "Next Meeting in 11 hours 23 minutes: Recycling out." Wink

lotsofcheese · 25/02/2015 18:21

Good on you, Gallic! Sounds like you have developed strategies for doing your share.

I often use the mobile phone alarm idea for patients to set reminders eg to take insulin.

Hopefully OP's partner can find a strategy for himself to contribute effectively round the house without nagging

bringmejoy2015 · 25/02/2015 18:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 18:53

OP, just out of interest, does he "forget" things & need constant reminding outside of the home ie at work?

I have met many of his colleagues, who clearly like and respect him. They all struggle with the boss, who has very exacting standards, but few interpersonal skills. In fact, several members of staff have quit or are off with stress because of the way the boss manages them. OH works with psychologically damaged young people and cares deeply about making a positive impact on their lives and he's brilliant at that aspect of his job. He finds it extremely rewarding, but also very hard to switch off from. Today he came home from work in tears because not only had he been kicked, punched and spat at (sadly almost a daily occurrence) but the boss had been having a go at him about his organisational skills and not clearing up mess -he feels there aren't enough hours in the day to meet all the requirements of his job. I suppose that's another reason why the last thing he wants to do when he gets home is chores. I reiterated today that he needs to think of the impact of opting-out of chores - that it simply means the burden is passed to me and that surely if he helped a bit more it would make for a happier home life in turn and home would be a haven from the stress of work. He said he knew he was "a pain" and not in the sense of being a lovable pain, but in the sense that he knew I loved him in spite of him being a pain. He also said that it was clear I deserved better and he meant what he said about making more of an effort.

OP posts:
vdbfamily · 25/02/2015 18:59

OP, I get really depressed reading these threads. It makes me realise why such a huge number of marriages end in divorce. When you are in a long term relationship and you want it to work,IMO it is all about expectations and compromise. You have to look at the two of you and how you compliment each other. He does not need to become like you or you like him. Look at what you are good at/what you enjoy. Look at what time you both have available. If you both have jobs but are very 'time poor', look at what help you can afford to buy in. All this stuff about not marrying him until he changes is nonsense to me. If you truly cannot live with how he is at the moment then don't marry him at all but it sounds to me like the people who know you best think you two are good for each other,and it does not sound to me like you want to lose him. I have been married 13 years with 3 children. My DH will do whatever I ask him too(in his own time!!) but will not initiate much in the way of housework. He does however work more hours than me and does most of the shopping and cooking. Whilst I get frustrated sometimes about his lack of initiative,it has never been any where near a deal breaker for us as I am quite sure there is plenty about me that frustrates him too. Reading all these comments I would not dare describe my DH on MN as he would be seen as lazy,disrespectful,childish,passive aggressive etc etc and yet for 6 months last year I was recovering from a badly broken leg and he had to do absolutely everything.Not once did he complain about anything. (The housework still went undone though so I trained the kids instead of him.) What I would say if your relationship continues is that you need to both do something about the hours you are working.Those sort of hours are unsustainable longterm and if one or other of you were more part-time you would find those extra jobs less stressful to do. At the moment they are eating into the precious little 'downtime' that you get in a day. Good luck OP.

rosepetalsoup · 25/02/2015 19:02

Poor him - what a crap day at work! Perhaps he needs a good hobby that is destressing and also entails getting organised, and fit (so not smoking). I.e. if he regularly went for a run twice a week he would need to wash his kit, be able to breathe, organise his route, etc. And then he would be up nice and early to make you tea in bed before work! Also it would avoid you having a fat husband in 10 years time Wink.

Is he a hippy OP? He sounds like it. I think you need to appeal to him on moral grounds (as he sounds highly moral in his own way), explaining the basic concepts of the 'Wifework' problem and how it relates to the feminist struggle.

Have you chosen a dress yet? Are you at all excited about the wedding? Do you feel like you want to get pregnant with his baby?

rosepetalsoup · 25/02/2015 19:04

Agree with vdbfamily

petalsandstars · 25/02/2015 19:07

I think that's the point vdb

he had to do absolutely everything

And yet still didn't. Out of choice. The children did it instead Sad

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 19:10

I'm freelance (it was the only way I could fit in earning a living around doing my PhD) and can't afford to turn down work as I never know when I'll get more and of course I don't get paid for leave / if I'm sick, etc. The result of this is sometimes I end up with so much work it takes up almost every waking hour. Now I have finished my PhD, I am looking for a steady job which would hopefully mean fewer hours and more job security, but it's bleak how few opportunities there are out there for someone with such a specific skill set as mine.

OP posts:
Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 19:18

Perhaps he needs a good hobby that is destressing He does have a hobby - it's the same hobby I have and that was how we met. We squeeze it in about once a fortnight. He also goes running as often as he can and is running a half marathon at the weekend. I did laugh at the bit about having a fat husband - if anything he needs to put ON weight!

Is he a hippy? Bordering on that, I suppose. But then I could be described in the same way in the sense I'm quite earthy.

Yes, I've chosen a dress and often thinking about walking down the aisle towards him brings tears of happiness to my eyes. I would love nothing more than to have a child that is half mine and half his. I am also aware that not having experienced motherhood yet, I probably have a romanticised version of it!

OP posts:
Quangle · 25/02/2015 19:19

I agree that people on MN bring their own experiences and biases to a situation they read about. I don't have a toxic MIL or a PA boyfriend so it always brings me up short when I read a thread about what seems like an ordinary domestic situation and someone diagnoses Passive Aggressiveness or Narcissism or whatever.

Often I think - ok, yes I suppose that could be what's going on but if that is what's happening it's at quite an extreme level of desire to control and manipulate so isn't it more likely the person concerned is just being a bit crap/thoughtless/lazy/tactless?

OP do you feel your DP is being passive aggressive - which is actually quite a strong form of manipulation? Or do you think he's just really hopeless at this stuff and doesn't really set his mind to improving?

BeCool · 25/02/2015 19:25

Being my own person could very easily involve doing no housework, washing up etc. But I couldnt just sit back and let someone I loved do it all while I "forget" or not notice. I could choose to do both - but I never would because I'm a grown up and I respect my co-habitees and our living space. I don't do it cause I like doing it or because its a talent but because I have to.

rosepetalsoup · 25/02/2015 19:26

No, it's lovely that you feel that! Don't let this thread make you despair. Could you get him to take pride in growing a vegetable garden? I am going to stop commenting on this thread for a bit now as I am way to into your story! But for the record again I think he sounds ok, and that you're probably well-matched and that you both sound quite similar: serious and idealistic, and very committed to each other with different styles of upbringing which are now clashing. Having a serious talk about kids and how you'd like to bring them up (i.e. in what kind of house) can help. Good luck OP. It is good that you laughed at my silly comment and perhaps you and he need to laugh more with/at each other. It does sound like it's got very serious, what with his job and your work situation and the daily housework summit.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 19:31

I think the latter, Quangle. I'll admit that I didn't really have a grasp on what passive aggressive behaviour was until it was posted about at length on this thread, at which point I thought long and hard about it. While I certainly don't wish to be dismissive, I'm really struggling to see how the label applies to my OH, but I will continue to keep an open mind.

OP posts:
Quangle · 25/02/2015 19:36

I had the impression you thought that OP. I agree it's worth considering but it doesn't sound like what you are dealing with. Which is good.

I'm inclined to think you can find ways around this but I think I'm in a minority on the thread.

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 19:49

Could you get him to take pride in growing a vegetable garden? That's a possibility - his friend grows veg on an allotment and he enjoys helping out when he has the time, but again, there are only so many hours in the day...

OP posts:
Mylifepart2 · 25/02/2015 20:11

While I certainly don't wish to be dismissive, I'm really struggling to see how the PA label applies to my OH, but I will continue to keep an open mind.

eeeerrrrrr.......

The American Psychiatric Association (2000). Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV. Washington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Association. pp. 733–734 define PA as:

Passive-aggressive behavior is characterized by a habitual pattern of passive resistance to expected work requirements, opposition, stubbornness, and negativistic attitudes in response to requirements for normal performance levels expected of others. Most frequently it occurs in the workplace where resistance is exhibited by such indirect behaviors as procrastination,forgetfulness, and purposeful inefficiency, especially in reaction to demands by authority figures, but it can also occur in interpersonal contexts with learned helplessness, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible".

Fedupwithmess · 25/02/2015 20:16

Yes, but surely PA is intentionally manipulative behaviour?

OP posts:
bringmejoy2015 · 25/02/2015 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 20:26

No, it's much more complex than that! You must know one or two people with conversational habits that seem at odds with their overall persona - stuff like the very nice, cheery person who instantly replies to everything with a put-down of some kind, and the one who can never be wholeheartedly enthusiastic but says "If it makes you happy ..." and "I suppose so ..."? You probably take it as read that they're not meaning to cast gloom over everything and you overlook it. But their words do take the shine off things. What you're observing is the inner reaches of someone's mind trampling all over their conscious desires.

I gave examples of words because it's a very common experience. It happens with behaviour, too.

cheminotte · 25/02/2015 20:37

Quick question fed up - those fag ends he accidentally dropped in the garden, who picked them up?

GallicIsCharlie · 25/02/2015 20:40

I posted upthread about a couple of instances when I let my friends down through my PA behaviours. You don't think I acted with intent to piss off my lovely co-worker or make my bridesmaids miserable, do you? No way! It just "happened". It was not within my conscious control.

By the way, the Army has its own term for passive aggression: "dumb insolence". It's a court martial offence.